Looking At Nekros

[theGreatZamboni]

Arguably the worst Warframe and he is locked behind a rather large grind-wall. Here are suggestions to help make Nekros' powers worthy of the level of effort put into obtaining him, as well as his art direction. But before moving forward I would like to discuss the nature of his theme. Originally his design fit into the idea that Warframe used pseudo-science to explain the fantastical things that often happen in this universe. His ultimate was called "Clone the Dead" and while "Shadows of the Dead" sounds better, the original description supported the idea of pseudo-science to aid in the suspension of disbelief. "Clone the Dead" talked about reconstruction of fallen enemies through the use of nano-machines. I for one, prefer this description. The cool factor I took away from that was, the use of superstitious imagery and concepts to create an entity of fear. In fantasy, a Necromancer summons the dead through spiritual or magical means. Here follows the definition of magic:

 

mag·ic
/majik/
noun
1. the power of apparently influencing the course of events by using mysterious or supernatural forces.

 

This is where I liked the direction of his “character” so to speak. Because reanimating the dead without knowing that nano-machines are being used is a scary notion, the imagery of Nekros himself invokes the idea of cheating death through supernatural means. Because fear in and of itself is a weapon. Throughout history armies have clothed themselves in armors and body decorations not only for protection, but to create the illusion they are more than mere men.

A quick way of showing this is to use the following video. I am aware that not everyone is a fan of Call of Duty, being one of these people who dislike it, I still understand the attraction to the franchise. But do not look at this video as just being about Call of Duty:

 

 

 

You play on the superstitions of others to gain whatever advantage you can muster in a fight. So while Nekros is actually using nano-machines to reanimate the dead, this notion escapes his foes. All they are witnessing is the rebirth of the fallen, immediately making the assumptions that Nekros can actually call upon the spirits of the damned.

 

---------------

 

Now for a look at his powers as if they were centered around the idea of using nano-machines. Tweaks to existing powers in function and context, as well as entirely new abilities follow.

 

1. Soul Punch:

 

I am ok with the name. I find it humorous like many others do, a lot of this comes from the idea of literally punching out someone's soul. But this name was in place when “Clone the Dead” was still labeled and described as utilizing nano-machines. Since the nature of this post it to make Nekros more interesting while still adhering to the idea of pseudo-science, I feel that the description should be at the very least what is changed about this ability.

 

Because I am unaware how this power will function/perform when Armor 2.0 hits, I cannot really say it should be removed. This is what I found foolish about U10, among many other things that I will not get into here; but the idea of releasing a boss, weapons and a Warframe without Armor 2.0 is just odd. As of right now how fighting Shaquana and using Soul Punch will work post Armor 2.0 is up in the air. What I am suggesting is the description be altered to describe the use of nano-machines in how this power functions. We will have to wait and see how the power functions after Armor 2.0 drops to make any changes, as the power is centered around Armor.

 

---------

 

2. Terrify:

A boring power, one I will revisit down later. Let’s change it for now.

 

Staying with the theme of the supernatural but not in function:

Possess: Nekros dematerializes as he springs forward to enter the body of his foe

 

You can go several different directions with this idea, including replacing Soul Punch, but let’s stick to making it its own power for the time being. As you enter the body of a foe, you have several different directions you can take this concept from here, as I stated. One being, taking actual control of your target gaining their abilities while you are possessing them. This is my least favorite idea, but people were bound to assume this is the direction I was headed. I was thinking more along the lines of the following:

Upon entering the body of a foe, you can then leap to an additional number of enemies based on level. You can select targets due to a short delay between each leap, allowing you to select which enemies to be used by Shadows of the Dead. Once the cap is reached you burst out of the body of the final target doing AOE damage and reducing the armor of enemies caught in the explosion. After bursting out of the final target, a delayed chain reaction of explosions happen to each target you possessed resulting in the same AOE effect. On the subject of  entering the bodies’ of enemies and having them burst/explode, I have no idea why this game is rated T when it is as gory as it is; so I see no issue with this power.

But the idea of moving around the battlefield via leaping into the chests/bodies of your foes is both a visually and conceptually exciting mechanic. As for the way DE could illustrate this in game, use a similar effect as the swarms of glowing orange/red spores we find racing around Infested levels.

 

Another way to make this less OP or just function less as a damaging ability and more as utility, is to have the ability not make targets explode, but reduce their armor. You can make the process of leaping a bit faster taking away the ability to select targets and use the same directed camera, pre-selection process as Ash’s ultimate. If you execute the power in this fashion, you could even use use the AOE explosion for the last target in the chain and not for all of them.

 

A third and the most simple, have Nekros leap into the body of his target and make them explode. A cheap and damaging cast, essentially Ash's teleport with an explosion radius and fancy animations. You could even include the armor reduction effect to the explosion. This will allow for the fast repositioning on the battlefield, with a more purposeful choice due to ending up in the targeted location with the addition of damage.

It is the idea of turning into a swarm of nano-machines to leap into target’s I find to be so exciting, if done correctly. What you do once the player is in the body is up to you. But I prefer the idea of the latter three “chain leaps” I describe vs. direct control.

 

---------

 

3. Desecrate:

This power, in theory is nice, but maybe just needs some bug fixing and clearer lines of use. I cannot think of something to replace it and adding the use of the word “nano-machines” to the description would only be fluff and take away from the already vague description.

 

---------

 

4. Shadows of the Dead:

Finally Nekros’ most exciting mechanic, currently. It is a shame it is so poorly executed. Changes that need to be made here are many, but that is ok. From talking with numerous people, the idea of summoning the dead is exciting. So let’s talk about tweaks.

 

----------------------------------------

 

1. There needs to be a HUD element for the current number of summons you can execute

 

Forum member MvMArcher had the following brilliant suggestion:

 

1. There needs to be a HUD element for the current number of summons you can execute

For this I'm thinking that something like Nova's Null star could work: Spawns a particle for each kill you get, until it reaches the max of 7 (or 9 if used with a maxed focus mod), also the size of the particle could changed based on whether or not it's a heavy unit and these particles would be the foundation for the animation of the skill.

 

This is much better than a simple HUD/GUI graphic.

 

2. Killing someone with a power nets you 2 or more “souls”

 

Other ultimates are just “you have enough energy, now hit 4”. By having you need to make sure you get the last hit on an enemy it puts a lot of guesswork into how many you actually have, especially with no HUD element. There needs to be an inclusion of a particle effects as well for “souls” being added once you kill them with a gun or power, so you have multiple ways of identifying what condition your ult is in.

 

3. Combine Terrify into Shadows of the Dead

Watching someone being brought back from the dead is 2spooky. It should scare people rendering them with the Terrified status. To explain this effect on MOAs and Infested alike, their could be some hint of a sound, something, that is causing these organisms and machines to go haywire. This sounds could also be explained as effecting the Corpus and Grineer, or at the very least inferred. While they are terrified, this leaves your reanimated nano-machine minions to wreak havoc upon the fleeing enemies. Obviously Terrify will not be a continuous effect and ware off eventually. Also due to the way the "shadows" work they just stand in place shooting at enemies behind cover as if they could hit them. If for a brief duration these enemies were forced from cover, it would allow ranged "shadows" to be more effective.

 

4. Increase the HP of “Shadows”

These entities are reanimated with nano-machines, lets just assume they are a tad more durable for the sake of making the shadows tougher to kill. Something that needs to be looked at when Armor 2.0 hits.

 

5. Re-add the nano-machines to the description

I understand people like the idea of “F*** logic, we are space ninjas”. But the game itself lends to the idea of a “plausible reality” It is centered around the Sol System, the Corpus and Grineer are humans. This adds a bit of personal stake in an otherwise fantastical universe. So far a lot of the game is just really cool &#! stuff, but it is based in pseudo-science. DE somewhat confirmed this by having “Shadows of the Dead” previously called and described as “Clone the Dead, with the inclusion of nano-machines.

 

6. Change the Particle Effects

They look terrible with or without PhysX enabled and share an uncanny resemblance to...

 

...Half-Life 2's AR2 secondary mode of fire particle effect.

 

Let me know what you think, thanks for the read. I am continuously checking to fix errors in spelling or to reword ideas to make them clearer. The purpose was to propose changes that could be made and not to say "this is how it should be". If you agree with only parts of what I say, let me know why and we can talk about it.

Edited November 16, 2013 by theGreatZamboni

[iexbrood]

Corpse explosionnnnn kaboosplatter for desecrate

[krisp]

"Drastically change this warframe's mechanics and descriptions because I want you to."

 

Needless to say it's not gonna happen.

[Aure7]

But the idea of moving around the battlefield via leaping into the chests/bodies of your foes is both a visually and conceptually exciting mechanic.

 

 

 

conceptually exciting? I think you should try ash or loki.

[theGreatZamboni]

"Drastically change this warframe's mechanics and descriptions because I want you to."

 

Needless to say it's not gonna happen.

 

This is a discussion about the condition of Nekros. The idea is to say what you dislike or like about Nekros or my ideas. Not to say "It won't happen". This is meant to generate discussion and get to the root of the issue as to why some people are not content with Nekros. Your comment is worthless to this discussion. I do not care DE implements a single one of my ideas.

 

 

Let me know what you think, thanks for the read.

 

If you have nothing to say about the topic, then do not post.

Edited September 22, 2013 by theGreatZamboni

[Wynn]

Nekros is one of the easiest frames to farm. Took me over 2 months to get Frost Prime, 2 weeks for Ember and 1 night for Nekros.

Have you play with Nekros his tool box is pretty good with him being allow to spec for Shadow of the dead or the "Desecrate" build.

Edited September 22, 2013 by Wynn

[theGreatZamboni]

Nekros is one of the easiest frames to farm. Took me over 2 months to get Frost Prime, 2 weeks for Ember and 1 night for Nekros.

Have you play with Nekros his tool box is pretty good with him being allow to spec for Shadow of the dead or the "Desecrate" build.

 

Well do you at least agree with adding a HUD element to show how many souls you have? Or that killing an enemy with Soul Punch should net you 2 or more souls? I would like to know what you think of that. I tried to cover more than just "here is my idea for X" and incorporated a broader concept of what I would like to see. I am not saying "Do this exactly" it is more up to you what aspects you like about it.

Edited September 22, 2013 by theGreatZamboni

[Grand-Dozer]

I agree with the thematic approach to Nekros. Its kind of odd how everything else has a (somewhat) plausible explanation present in the game, yet Shadows of the Dead is an arcane space magic esque ability instead of hinting that there's a technological aspect to it.

 

Desecrate, Shadows of the Dead, and Soul Punch all seem relatively related to extensive manipulation of nano machines i.e; Desecrate sending nanobots to retrieve gear and med-packs from the fallen, Soul Punch sending a swarm of nanobots towards the target with immense energy/force, or Shadows of the dead using nanobots to mimic or actually infest and revive the dead momentarily.

Edited September 22, 2013 by Grand-Dozer

[theGreatZamboni]

 

conceptually exciting? I think you should try ash or loki.

 

 

I have no issues with Loki's Switch Teleport, Ash's Teleport could use some changes or needs to be removed. Maybe have his melee damage increased by X amount after casting? Have a look at this, I had forgotten to add it:

 

 

A third and the most simple. Just have Nekros leap into the body of his target and make them explode. A cheap and damaging cast, essentially Ash's teleport with an explosion radius and fancy animations. You could even include the armor reduction effect to the explosion. This will allow for the fast repositioning on the battlefield, with a more purposeful choice due to ending up in the targeted location with the addition of damage.

Edited September 22, 2013 by theGreatZamboni

[RAZORLIGHT]

for a "pet" frame nekros is lacking actual "pet abilities" he should have a weaker version of "shadows of the dead" too

[Wynn]

I don't even use Shadow of the Dead, I use Soul punch and Desecrate(100-170 times a map).

[jmthebigman]

Profiled.. for now i must say it is very interesting what ive read but reading all on mobile is horrible so i will respond tomorrow on my pc. Im glad you see the potential of desecrate.

[theGreatZamboni]

I don't even use Shadow of the Dead, I use Soul punch and Desecrate(100-170 times a map).

 

Well, tell us why you do this. I'm curious to know.

Edited September 22, 2013 by theGreatZamboni

[Nujazz]

Well, tell us why you do this. I'm curious to know.

Because this is the embodiment of the Warframe community.

[TunaMayo]

Buff nekros. Make him useful. Do it now.

[Fundance]

the worst warframe? Not by a long shot. He's not 'amazing' by any means but he certainly brings utility to a team.

 

A necro who knows how to use desecrate well will provide an unprecidented amount of healing/energy to the team over the course of a game. I'm not even talking about the chance to drop ammo and mods. Desecrate is actually a seriously good support skill, and no it's not that hard to use. You simply need to pay attention and know when to time that button press to go off right after your Nova/Rhino/Saryn clears the room with their ult. Amusingly, you can also desecrate your own shadows for even MORE health.

 

Soul Punch is a great 'tag' skill for stopping toxic ancients and other primary targets in their tracks while your team decides what to do with them. If you get used to angling this skill while jumping or standing on higher ground it can ragdoll multiple enemies in a decent aoe around the target and send them flying high up into the air. Nobody cares about the damage, it's also incredibly cheap to cast, because 25 energy is nothing for necro who can use desecrate well.

 

Terrify is too expensive but that's kind of alright because it is a seriously good CC. Affects every target in the (substantial) aoe and keeps them from doing anything useful for a good long time. Great for when enemies are getting too close to the pod. Combine this with Shadows of the Dead and enemies will not be attacking the pod any time soon.

 

Shadows of the Dead draws aggro. That already  makes it really useful. Combine it with some nice AOE weapon like Ignis or Torid and go to town while enemies are busy shooting at your clones, which don't die too fast and will hang around drawing aggro and stuff for a good 30 seconds or so. When they all die, you can desecrate them too for extra health orbs.

Edited September 29, 2013 by Fundance

[theGreatZamboni]

the worst warframe? Not by a long shot. He's not 'amazing' by any means but he certainly brings utility to a team.

 

Why should I read what you posted if you are not going to carefully read what I posted?

 

 

Arguably the worst Warframe and he is locked behind a rather large grind-wall.

 

That being said, I did read what you posted. You make good cases, but don't say why mine are bad. So everything you said, is what anyone who is defending Nekro's current state is saying. So what about my ideas? What do you have to say about them? Or are you content with just attacking one part of what I said(a part you didn't even take time to comprehend), because you actually didn't read the entirety of the post?

 

I swear your entire argument/defense of Nekros is coming from the standpoint of reading what I posted: "Arguably the worst Warfame" as "Nekros sucks". You address none of the changes or alterations, you only use this thread as a vehicle to post ignorantly without considering others' ideas.

Edited October 2, 2013 by theGreatZamboni

[Zelrion]

Why should I read what you posted if you are not going to carefully read what I posted.

 

 

 

That being said, I did read what you posted. You make good cases, but don't say why mine are bad. So everything you said, is what anyone who is defending Nekro's current state is saying. So what about my ideas? What do you have to say about them? Or are you content with just attacking one part of what I said(a part you didn't even time to comprehend), because you actually didn't read the entirety of the post?

 

I swear your entire argument/defense of Nekros is coming from the standpoint of reading what I posted: "Arguably the worst Warfame" as "Nekros sucks". You address none of the changes or alterations, you only use this thread as a vehicle to post ignorantly without considering others' ideas.

Their are many people like that in Warframe. Just ignore them. I agree with your ideas though, any of 'em would make Nekros much more viable as a main Warframe and a ton more fun. (Currently the only reason I use him as a main is because he looks so friken cool) =D

[magnaar]

its is not arguable the worst warframe, it is the most poorly designed worst warframe.

[Subkillin]

IMO get rid of Terrify move desecrate to the two spot and move shadow of the dead to the 3 spot.  Give him a whole new ult all together.  He also need to get his base stats a little boost.  I already forma him twice and it is hard to get a conclave of 1000 at least on him.  I have not forma any other frame and they can reach 1000 easy with my current setup. 

[Art247c]

IMO get rid of Terrify move desecrate to the two spot and move shadow of the dead to the 3 spot.  Give him a whole new ult all together.  He also need to get his base stats a little boost.  I already forma him twice and it is hard to get a conclave of 1000 at least on him.  I have not forma any other frame and they can reach 1000 easy with my current setup. 

wot nu, don't get rid of Terrify i use it all the time on a def mission, as for the ult shadows if a fine reskin of choas but the AI needs a HUGE rework and why not add a damage or health buff (why not both?) to the clones?

Edited September 30, 2013 by Art247c

[Zelrion]

Bump

[MvMArcher]

I would just like to reply on your Shadows of the Dead part.

Also please do note that I very much enjoy the way that SotD works right now, having a skill which you have to work for is great fun.

 

 

4. Shadows of the Dead:

Finally Nekros’ most exciting mechanic, currently. It is a shame it is so poorly executed. Changes that need to be made here are many, but that is ok. From talking with numerous people, the idea of summoning the dead is exciting. So let’s talk about tweaks.

 

----------------------------------------

 

1. There needs to be a HUD element for the current number of summons you can execute

 

This is pretty self explanatory.

 

2. Killing someone with a power nets you 2 or more “souls”

 

Other ultimates are just “you have enough energy, now hit 4”. By having you need to make sure you get the last hit on an enemy it puts a lot of guesswork into how many you actually have, especially with no HUD element. There needs to be an inclusion of a particle effects as well for “souls” being added once you kill them with a gun or power, so you have multiple ways of identifying what condition your ult is in.

 

3. Combine Terrify into Shadows of the Dead

Watching someone being brought back from the dead is 2spooky. It should scare people rendering them with the Terrified status. To explain this effect on MOAs and Infested alike, their could be some hint of a sound, something, that is causing these organisms and machines to go haywire. This sounds could also be explained as effecting the Corpus and Grineer, or at the very least inferred. While they are terrified, this leaves your reanimated nano-machine minions to wreak havoc upon the fleeing enemies. Obviously Terrify will not be a continuous effect and ware off eventually. Also due to the way the "shadows" work they just stand in place shooting at enemies behind cover as if they could hit them. If for a brief duration these enemies were forced from cover, it would allow ranged "shadows" to be more effective.

 

4. Increase the HP of “Shadows”

These entities are reanimated with nano-machines, lets just assume they are a tad more durable for the sake of making the shadows tougher to kill. Something that needs to be looked at when Armor 2.0 hits.

 

5. Re-add the nano-machines to the description

I understand people like the idea of “F*** logic, we are space ninjas”. But the game itself lends to the idea of a “plausible reality” It is centered around the Sol System, the Corpus and Grineer are humans. This adds a bit of personal stake in an otherwise fantastical universe. So far a lot of the game is just really cool &#! stuff, but it is based in pseudo-science. DE somewhat confirmed this by having “Shadows of the Dead” previously called and described as “Clone the Dead, with the inclusion of nano-machines.

 

1. There needs to be a HUD element for the current number of summons you can execute

For this I'm thinking that something like Nova's Null star could work: Spawns a particle for each kill you get, until it reaches the max of 7 (or 9 if used with a maxed focus mod), also the size of the particle could changed based on whether or not it's a heavy unit and these particles would be the foundation for the animation of the skill.

 

2. Killing someone with a power nets you 2 or more “souls”

Giving soul punch the ability to give two souls instead of one on a kill would be awesome and add some more synergy to his skills.

 

3. Combine Terrify into Shadows of the Dead

Instead of just adding terrify I would suggest that it gives a "fear" like state to the enemies doing casting time (enemies standing still, looking around not know what to do), this would "act" as a short form of stun, giving you the time needed to cast the skill and also add something so it isn't just like Nyx's chaos.

 

4. Increase the HP of “Shadows”

This would greatly help as there more often then not are more enemies then shadows.

 

 

5. Re-add the nano-machines to the description

I don't see why not.

 

 

Had to do a few edits as I'm not used to this forum.

Edited October 1, 2013 by MvMArcher

[theGreatZamboni]

I would just like to reply on your Shadows of the Dead part.

Also please do note that I very much enjoy the way that SotD works right now, having a skill which you have to work for is great fun.

 

 

 

1. There needs to be a HUD element for the current number of summons you can execute

For this I'm thinking that something like Nova's Null star could work: Spawns a particle for each kill you get, until it reaches the max of 7 (or 9 if used with a maxed focus mod), also the size of the particle could changed based on whether or not it's a heavy unit and these particles would be the foundation for the animation of the skill.

 

I love that idea, much better than what I suggested(or lack there of). Keeps the screen less cluttered and refocuses on what you are doing with your character. I am going to quote and add your suggestion to my description. Also it may seem odd, but make a Hawken account, then format your posts using their toolset. I am well versed in BBCode but the toolset we have here is so limited that having to do all the brackets by hand is just a nuisance.

Edited October 1, 2013 by theGreatZamboni

[MvMArcher]

I love that idea, much better than what I suggested(or lack there of). Keeps the screen less cluttered and refocuses on what you are doing with your character. I am going to quote and add your suggestion to my description. Also it may seem odd, but make a Hawken account, then format your posts using their toolset. I am well versed in BBCode but the toolset we have here is so limited that having to do all the brackets by hand is just a nuisance.

 

Glad that you liked the idea :D

 

And thanks for the tip about forum posting.