Fighting Styles! Combat Evolved

[Solaurus]

So I just had a great strike of brilliance (with some help from my trusty beer goggles and inspirational face paint that I use to paint Mike Tyson-esque tattoos on my face for confidence), I came up with the idea of animation packs! These packs would be for certain weapon and frame classes.

Example for Weapon:

Super Duper Double Pooper: Greatswords: An ancient Tenno fighting style that incorporates lightning fast attacks in exchange for generally lighter hits.

-Attacks with Greatswords are 40% faster.

-Attacks with Greatswords are 10% weaker

Animations are different than current greatsword animation. They are faster and fiercer but noticeably more light.

Example for frame:

Bolt thrower: Volt:

Empowers Volt's throwing weapon ability by charging his kunai with electricity.

Volt's stance for thrown weapons is different. All the streaks left behind by weapons have an electric affect.

-Kunai deal 80% electrical damage

-The electricity left behind by the weapon lingers, stunning enemies that come into contact with them.

Opinions?

[Archangelzz]

In other words you want different weapons to have advantages or disadvantages when equipped with different frames?

[Rionat]

sooooo saryn with poison dmg added to all her weapons?

[--FHDL--Bael]

or like loki has the attack on titan pack where he goes all levi around with the dual daggers weapons , fang , etc, fang primes

airgliding and slicing and twisting around in mid-air

i would pay like a 1000 plat for this animation pack

Edited September 28, 2013 by xinhui123

[Exillian]

Is this meant to be for real?If so post in feedback devs will see :o.

[Solaurus]

Ichor Fury: Dual Ichors:

You wield the blades of the Dual Ichors backwards, increasing attack damage but decreasing charge damage

-Attack damage +50%

-Charge damage -30%

Rogue: Any dual melee weapon: one blade is held forward and the other is held backwards

Attacks from the back give a bonus chance to crit and a bonus to attack damage.

-Attacks from the back give a +30% chance to crit

-Attacks from the back give a +50% damage boost.

Charge damage decreased by 30%

All weapons have 1 combat style slot.

Edited September 28, 2013 by Solaurus

[Naugus]

It's probably the allergy meds and dehydration talking, but this idea sounds nifty to me, even if I didn't read it.  @w@

[matto]

This shouldn't be per weapon, but a fighting style slot in the "customize" section of your frame.

 

It's more a thing that a frame would learn, and not a weapon attribute.

 

And I say yay.

 

Not elemental damages though. Those are for elemental mods. And they should add a poison mod, just saying.

[Blatantfool]

 It is neat, but I can't say I think it is all that smart to start telling people 'X is the kind of weapon for Y Warframe' by assigning bonuses.

 

 If you told me something like:

 

 -Heavy melee weapons now have a Brute and a Guardian stance you assign in the Appearance screen.

 

-Brute attacks for more damage and have a 4 hit swing combo that  consists of powerful overhead swings that speeds up as you go, hitting mutliple enemies in a cone directly in front of you. (Basically, if the first swing in the combo took a full 2 seconds, the next will be 1.75, then 1.50 and then 1 second or something.) Brute stance leaves you open to being flinched and blocking sucks.

 

-Guardian stance prevents flinching and pushes enemies back. It has a 3-hit combo that cleaves wide to hit many enemies. Blocking will stun melee opponents and recieves a significant stamina cost reduction bonus.

 

 

 That sort of thing I'd totally go for. I feel like now that they've sorta opened up the can of worms with the Idle Animations letting you pick - they could actually do well to sprinkle a bit of that all over the game. Let players have a style to them.

[Solaurus]

It is neat, but I can't say I think it is all that smart to start telling people 'X is the kind of weapon for Y Warframe' by assigning bonuses.

 

 If you told me something like:

 

 -Heavy melee weapons now have a Brute and a Guardian stance you assign in the Appearance screen.

 

-Brute attacks for more damage and have a 4 hit swing combo that  consists of powerful overhead swings that speeds up as you go, hitting mutliple enemies in a cone directly in front of you. (Basically, if the first swing in the combo took a full 2 seconds, the next will be 1.75, then 1.50 and then 1 second or something.) Brute stance leaves you open to being flinched and blocking sucks.

 

-Guardian stance prevents flinching and pushes enemies back. It has a 3-hit combo that cleaves wide to hit many enemies. Blocking will stun melee opponents and recieves a significant stamina cost reduction bonus.

 

 

 That sort of thing I'd totally go for. I feel like now that they've sorta opened up the can of worms with the Idle Animations letting you pick - they could actually do well to sprinkle a bit of that all over the game. Let players have a style to them.

You really have a point here. Well what I was stating was more the DPS percentages. I never really thought about te mechanics of the attacks themselves like you clearly did.

[matto]

That sort of thing I'd totally go for. I feel like now that they've sorta opened up the can of worms with the Idle Animations letting you pick - they could actually do well to sprinkle a bit of that all over the game. Let players have a style to them.

 

This idea was mentionned in the "how to improve melee" (don't remember the title) thread as it was mentionned in the last livestream that they're trying to find a way to improve the melee system. And it's something that we need I think.

Edited September 28, 2013 by matto

[Blatantfool]

This idea was mentionned in the "how to improve melee" (don't remember the title) thread as it was mentionned in the last livestream that they're trying to find a way to improve the melee system. And it's something that we need I think.

 

 Yeah? That is cool. Doesn't surprise me, there is a good amount of people posting that seem to think like I do. You can tell because all the people who think like I do are also insanely handsome and charismatic.

 

 And I agree. It'd be very, very welcome.

 

 

You really have a point here. Well what I was stating was more the DPS percentages. I never really thought about te mechanics of the attacks themselves like you clearly did.

 

  Well, to be honest - I've never really been an enormous fan of all of the customization and optimization of items being 100% grounded in putting out sweet numbers. I really do enjoy hitting an enemy particularly hard - but if I had my way putting your character together would allow for more then that.

 

 I'd like to see a player be able to excuse using a Melee weapon that isn't the best because 'There is that thing it does that I've learned to love.'

 

 

 You know how Zorencopter has been around so long it is essentially normal gameplay now? I honestly believe DE should adopt it as a trait of ALL light melee weapons, specifically dual wielded weapons. Call the technique a 'Lunge' and give it its own animation.

 

 Then Heavy Melee weapons need to have a different trait - specifically heavy melee combos. Insanely heavy damage with powerful staggering effect? Yeah. I think that'd fit weapons like Fragor nicely.

[Aspari]

Ichor Fury: Dual Ichors:

You wield the blades of the Dual Ichors backwards, increasing attack damage but decreasing charge damage

-Attack damage +50%

-Charge damage -30%

Rogue: Any dual melee weapon: one blade is held forward and the other is held backwards

Attacks from the back give a bonus chance to crit and a bonus to attack damage.

-Attacks from the back give a +30% chance to crit

-Attacks from the back give a +50% damage boost.

Charge damage decreased by 30%

All weapons have 1 combat style slot.

I think you would have solved all of Long Sword's problems if you had said that instead of dual melee weapons...

Edited September 28, 2013 by Aspari

[Solaurus]

I think you would have solved all of Long Sword's problems if you had said that instead of dual melee weapons...

Paladin: Longsword: An ancient style from a long forgotten Tenno sect, the Paladin style is a defensive one that focuses on closing openings that are formed during attacks.

(Sword is held in both hands facing outward)

-You gain +30 armor while attacking

-Attacks are 10% slower

-Blocking Protects you from 40% more bullets

Fencer: Longsword: A style that incorporates jabbing and lunging to attack weak points on a target.

(The style is more graceful and incorporates slight ballet move although nothing too fancy to be comical)

+60 armor piercing on attack

-10 armor while attacking

+60% attack speed for 6 seconds after a melee kill.

[Grascen]

 It is neat, but I can't say I think it is all that smart to start telling people 'X is the kind of weapon for Y Warframe' by assigning bonuses.

 

As long as they have a handful of options, I have no beef with this. I might actually decide to use a frame other than Rhino.

 

As it is currently, Iron Skin complements my "In your face" playstyle so well, that I have little reason to use my Saryn, Mag Prime, or Nekros. I only use my Frost Prime when nobody else is going to on high level Corpus/Grineer defense/MD.

[Blatantfool]

As long as they have a handful of options, I have no beef with this. I might actually decide to use a frame other than Rhino.

 

As it is currently, Iron Skin complements my "In your face" playstyle so well, that I have little reason to use my Saryn, Mag Prime, or Nekros. I only use my Frost Prime when nobody else is going to on high level Corpus/Grineer defense/MD.

 

 Nah. I think in the long run it'd be the wrong move.

 

 You want to open the game up. Allow for a range of customization options good enough that one weapon does not necessarily have a single use or that one frame is not best used in a singular fashion or mindset.

 

  You don't want to say 'Look, if you use Throwing Weapons on Volt they are better." because that will make players who don't use Throwing Weapons feel gimped - even if they aren't actually gimped. You don't need a penalty for a player to feel like they are being penalized.

 

  So what you get is less viable builds surrounding the use of a Frame. Sure - you did make a Frame strong in one aspect and all, which is neat. But you've closed up some of the customization. That trade off should probably be avoided.

 

 However it'd be very different if you said something like:

 

 "Look, Gram and the other Heavy weapons now have their own stances - not unlike a Warframe. However this isn't aesthetic. It is a choice between two actual combat styles. One might have a longer normal attack combo, the other might have a wider swing arc. Lighter frames might favor this style because it puts you in less danger, while a heavy frame might like this other style because it trades some safety for a longer combo."

 

 To me that is awesome - because now anyone can use the different styles on any frame and the player decides if it will fit into their gameplay style and how. Maybe that 'safer' melee chain I mentioned would turn out to be fantastic on the sort of player who already loves to build a lot of survivability on his Rhino or Frost already. You never know.

 

 In a perfect world it'd even have a nice flair to it. The opportunity for different melee animations for different weapon classes do allow another chance to spice things up. Does your Warframe of choice sweep their Orthos through a swathe of enemies in long normal and heavy attack chains with wide swing arcs? Do they instead trade out the ability to chain heavy swings for a powerful stabbing thrust to gore a single foe?

[matto]

Amen to that.

 

However, while I can imagine it for swords, I can't come with something useful for heavier weapons.

 

I mean, using a hammer or an axe is tanky enough, you don't need to add a stance. Plus, they made skins for those weapons. Same goes for Glaive or Kestrel.

For example : a fast stance for a hammer would be awkward, with a frame going melee like it was holding a sword, ignoring weight.

 

And as I said, I don't like the idea of bringing the elemental powers in this. A stance involving fire or ice. We got mods for that. So it should be more like combos.

Also, I feel concerned about all the speed and damages mods if a stance gives you an advantage. And the Beserker mod or Finishing Touch could become useless.

 

It's a system that is, somehow, more like an option to the mod system. Having both would end in a conflict.

 

But it would be a great way to improve swords and daggers though, because those weapons really need it.

Edited September 28, 2013 by matto

[Blatantfool]

Amen to that.

 

However, while I can imagine it for swords, I can't come with something useful for heavier weapons.

 

I mean, using a hammer or an axe is tanky enough, you don't need to add a stance. Plus, they made skins for those weapons. Same goes for Glaive or Kestrel.

For example : a fast stance for a hammer would be awkward, with a frame going melee like it was holding a sword, ignoring weight.

 

And as I said, I don't like the idea of bringing the elemental powers in this. A stance involving fire or ice. We got mods for that. So it should be more like combos.

Also, I feel concerned about all the speed and damages mods if a stance gives you an advantage. And the Beserker mod or Finishing Touch could become useless.

 

It's a system that is, somehow, more like an option to the mod system. Having both would end in a conflict.

 

But it would be a great way to improve swords and daggers though, because those weapons really need it.

 

 The only ceiling is one's imagination honestly.

 

  Since, currently, the Gram, Scindo and Fragor all share animations and such it'd follow they'd share a default stance. Their alternative stance would all probably be similar as well I think. Perhaps with changes to the effects.

 

 I'd want DE to first incorporate chained heavy attacks. The chained heavy attacks would serve as the vanilla flavor of these weapons. Whether their default stances have unique animations isn't the focus right now so we'll skip that. Follow that up by making the alternative stance trade out the chained heavy attacks for a single, powerful overhead smash. Something that looks and sounds like it has weight.

 

 I figure Gram and Greatswords like it would benefit by the overhead smash knocking whatever takes the hit to the ground (Like the infamous Zweihander from Dark Souls.)

 

 Scindo and heavy axes get better damage and a crit chance increase for that specific attack (This is of course considering Scott's proposed change to Elemental mods and how they'll 'proc' with crits. So now Scindo's smash would be good for elemental procs.)

 

 And Fragor would get a shockwave. Its overhead smash would hit everything in 5 meters.

 

 

 

 As for how this meshes with the mod system - I dunno. I think it would mesh well. Changing the way the weapon swings or how the smash works will create some differences on what you'd want on the weapon. Sure, you'll still get dudes running a rainbow build on everything, but that is just because that works really well right now.

 

 The above example of what the alternate stance for Greatswords would work like? A single, powerful smash with a knockdown factor? That would - in my opinion - finally be an excuse to use a mod like Melee Channel.

[Grascen]

You don't want to say 'Look, if you use Throwing Weapons on Volt they are better." because that will make players who don't use Throwing Weapons feel gimped - even if they aren't actually gimped. You don't need a penalty for a player to feel like they are being penalized.

 

If they have a handful of options and they aren't too strong, then there shouldn't be a problem. I'll use the game Metal Assault as an example.

 

In Metal Assault, you could choose between Carl, Ai, Marie, or Burton as your characters. Each of them could use any weapon, but one was obviously better with some weapons than others. Burton could run faster with heavy weapons(rockets), Marie had farther sight range(snipers), Carl had huge mobility in a forward flip(shotguns), and Ai had lower cooldown on grenades(grenade launching rifles).

 

Even so, you'd still see players using all sorts of different weapons. Although players had the option to use one type of weapon better than the other characters, they still had unique ways of using the other weapons too. Even though Burton could run pretty fast with a rocket launcher, people would use shotguns on him due to his higher health pool and Lance ability(think Rhino Charge). Although Carl was really good with rifles, his ability to use Flamethrowers was crazy(my personal favorite combo). Although Marie was better with sniper rifles, you'd still see them using grenade launcher rifles with their Double Roll ability. Ai even was nice to use with rockets, due to her Backdash ability.

[Cinderain]

Super Duper Double Pooper: Greatswords:

 

I thought this was going to have something to do with dual-wielding Greatswords.

Edited September 28, 2013 by FatalX7

[Solaurus]

I thought this was going to have something to do with dual-wielding Greatswords.

Oh no no no, that's super doper double SCOOPER.