Status chance, duration, and physical damage mods

[GruntBlender]

I've been looking at some mods, and there's a lack of consistency in some of them.

First, I'd like to discuss Physical Damage Mods, or IPS (Impact, Puncture, or Slash) mods.

While all IPS mods that drop from Eidolons grant 120% damage with 11 drain, the mods dropped from earlier enemies are inconsistent. Shotgun and rifle mods grant 30% damage with 9 drain, Pistol ones do 60% with 7 drain, and Melee ones do 90% with 7 drain. This could be explained by balance between weapon types, if not for the consistent 120% from Eidolon dropped mods. This inconsistency means that on Melee, it's a choice between a bit more damage with a bit more drain, while on rifles you might as well dissolve the lesser mods since the Eidolon ones at rank 1 give 40% at 7 drain vs 30% at 9 drain for regular mods at rank 5. Since none of these affect statuses beyond changing proc order, might as well change all the regular physical damage mods to have the same values regardless of weapon type. Normalize them all to either the Pistol or Melee values.

 

Now, I'd like to discuss Status Chance Mods.

Once again there's a lack of consistency, and worse, a lack of value. Shotgun Savvy provides 30% with 9 drain, Rifle Aptitude is 15% with 9 drain, Sure Shot(Pistol) is 15% with 7 drain, as is Melee Prowess. Now, Melee has the added balancing complexity that is Weeping Wounds, which requires a different approach and I've discussed it in another thread. Here I'll talk about the Primary/Secondary ones. Hammer Shot, while being a Nightmare mod, makes Rifle Aptitude irrelevant with +40% status chance vs. +15% from RA. Even Shotgun Savvy with its +30% only takes a 25% base status chance up to 32.5%, it's a waste of space, especially with the existence of the 60/60 Element+Status mods. It's even worse for Rifles and Pistols. My proposed solution is to buff these Status Chance mods to 120%, it's not as crazy as it sounds. Having 3 60/60 mods gives you +180% Elemental and +180% Status, having 2 regular Elemental mods and a buffed Status Chance would give +180% Elemental and +120% Status. This still leaves the rare 60/60 mods superior, granting more status and damage types in the same number of slots and less drain (3x7=21, 12 with forma vs 2x11+9=31, 17 with forma). This change would, however, give a slight advantage to the Primed Elemental mods like Primed Heated Charge. With a Primed Element, this combo would give +165% Element and +120% Status, reflecting the higher resource cost of a max rank Primed mod, as well as giving players more options and flexibility in their loadouts.

 

Lastly, let's quickly discuss Status Duration Mods.

The Rifle mod grants +100% duration at rank 3 and with 7 drain. Shotgun, meanwhile, grants +30% at rank 5 with 11 drain, as does the Pistol mod. Melee is perplexingly even more different, granting +110% duration at a whopping rank 10 with 16 drain. One of the very few mods I've seen with an even number for drain value, might I add, having the same rank and drain as the heaviest Primed mods but at Common rarity. A little more consistency in these values would be great, perhaps +90% at rank 5 and 11 drain across the board?

 

My suggestion regarding Melee Prowess, the Melee Status Chance mod: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1141600-making-melee-prowess-useful-without-overpowering-it/

If the developers believe these changes aren't warranted, I'd at least like to hear the rationale behind that.

[Andele3025]

23 minutes ago, GruntBlender said:

I've been looking at some mods, and there's a lack of consistency in some of them.

First, I'd like to discuss Physical Damage Mods, or IPS (Impact, Puncture, or Slash) mods.

While all IPS mods that drop from Eidolons grant 120% damage with 11 drain, the mods dropped from earlier enemies are inconsistent. Shotgun and rifle mods grant 30% damage with 9 drain, Pistol ones do 60% with 7 drain, and Melee ones do 90% with 7 drain. This could be explained by balance between weapon types, if not for the consistent 120% from Eidolon dropped mods. This inconsistency means that on Melee, it's a choice between a bit more damage with a bit more drain, while on rifles you might as well dissolve the lesser mods since the Eidolon ones at rank 1 give 40% at 7 drain vs 30% at 9 drain for regular mods at rank 5. Since none of these affect statuses beyond changing proc order, might as well change all the regular physical damage mods to have the same values regardless of weapon type. Normalize them all to either the Pistol or Melee values.

Nah, rather bump the primary ones to 50% and make them drain 7
The real issue is that they should scale that status proc/be treated as base damage for the damage type.

23 minutes ago, GruntBlender said:

Now, I'd like to discuss Status Chance Mods.

Once again there's a lack of consistency, and worse, a lack of value. Shotgun Savvy provides 30% with 9 drain, Rifle Aptitude is 15% with 9 drain, Sure Shot(Pistol) is 15% with 7 drain, as is Melee Prowess. Now, Melee has the added balancing complexity that is Weeping Wounds, which requires a different approach and I've discussed it in another thread. Here I'll talk about the Primary/Secondary ones. Hammer Shot, while being a Nightmare mod, makes Rifle Aptitude irrelevant with +40% status chance vs. +15% from RA. Even Shotgun Savvy with its +30% only takes a 25% base status chance up to 32.5%, it's a waste of space, especially with the existence of the 60/60 Element+Status mods. It's even worse for Rifles and Pistols. My proposed solution is to buff these Status Chance mods to 120%, it's not as crazy as it sounds. Having 3 60/60 mods gives you +180% Elemental and +180% Status, having 2 regular Elemental mods and a buffed Status Chance would give +180% Elemental and +120% Status. This still leaves the rare 60/60 mods superior, granting more status and damage types in the same number of slots and less drain (3x7=21, 12 with forma vs 2x11+9=31, 17 with forma). This change would, however, give a slight advantage to the Primed Elemental mods like Primed Heated Charge. With a Primed Element, this combo would give +165% Element and +120% Status, reflecting the higher resource cost of a max rank Primed mod, as well as giving players more options and flexibility in their loadouts.

The pure status mods should just be converted to 10% bonus base status chance.

23 minutes ago, GruntBlender said:

Lastly, let's quickly discuss Status Duration Mods.

The Rifle mod grants +100% duration at rank 3 and with 7 drain. Shotgun, meanwhile, grants +30% at rank 5 with 11 drain, as does the Pistol mod. Melee is perplexingly even more different, granting +110% duration at a whopping rank 10 with 16 drain. One of the very few mods I've seen with an even number for drain value, might I add, having the same rank and drain as the heaviest Primed mods but at Common rarity. A little more consistency in these values would be great, perhaps +90% at rank 5 and 11 drain across the board?

Status duration is actually balanced as is (rifles tend to have lowest in moment status, shotguns and most pistols get it in bursts, melee might have slightly low duration for drain, but because its melee, it has the "hit and walk away while the enemy still dies" effect. Only issue is they (much like mag size, reload, rapid resilience, elemental resists, etc) aint exilus yet cant compete with core mods on a per slot value, unless you bumped them up to +5000000%/functionally infinite status duration.

[GruntBlender]

23 minutes ago, Andele3025 said:

Nah, rather bump the primary ones to 50% and make them drain 7
The real issue is that they should scale that status proc/be treated as base damage for the damage type.

Count for the Slash proc, maybe. But boosting base damage? They'd stack multiplicatively not only with Serration but with all Elements. Seeing how DE is moving away from mult stacking in favor of additive, as with Weeping Wounds, Condition Overload, and Blood Rush, I doubt they'd do that. Those Eidolon ones that do +120% can have the same effect on total damage as a 90% Elemental mod on some weapons.

29 minutes ago, Andele3025 said:

The pure status mods should just be converted to 10% bonus base status chance.

That's what I suggested for Melee Prowess, with numbers to justify it. It wouldn't be nearly as good on guns, but it would still give a proportionally larger boost to low Status weapons. I'm not opposed to this.

 

41 minutes ago, Andele3025 said:

rifles tend to have lowest in moment status

The Hek has 25% Status and 2.17 Fire Rate, so it procs on average every 1.84 seconds. The Dera at the same MR has 22% Status and 11.25 Fire Rate, so it procs on average every 0.40 seconds. If anything, the Shotguns need even more Status chance and duration. The Hek is closer to the Braton with its 6% Status and 1.90s average time between procs. Granted, the Braton would do bit more than half the Bleed damage of the Hek, but it would more consistently proc Slash compared to Hek's Puncture, and this is comparing a Shotgun with 25% Status to a starting rifle with 6% Status... The Soma will proc twice as often, with a 30% base Crit and 3x Crit Multiplier...

[Andele3025]

23 minutes ago, GruntBlender said:

Count for the Slash proc, maybe. But boosting base damage? They'd stack multiplicatively not only with Serration but with all Elements. Seeing how DE is moving away from mult stacking in favor of additive, as with Weeping Wounds, Condition Overload, and Blood Rush, I doubt they'd do that. Those Eidolon ones that do +120% can have the same effect on total damage as a 90% Elemental mod on some weapons.

They shouldnt stack with elementals, but work identical as them. And even if they were actual base damage increases, it still wouldnt break the math much at all as basing the fact that a weapon with 85~90% of its total damage (thus never care about the physical damage mods unless they have extremely low per hit base damage and high status) can sometimes use them as mods worth the slot is also a weapon that could either add another base damage mod OR even better, fire rate/PT/multi (or attack speed/reach, as we now have 2 good range and 2.9 good attack speed mods) for better results except for the tigris series which could have infinite damage as long as the falloff, mag size and reload stay the downside.

23 minutes ago, GruntBlender said:

The Hek has 25% Status and 2.17 Fire Rate, so it procs on average every 1.84 seconds. The Dera at the same MR has 22% Status and 11.25 Fire Rate, so it procs on average every 0.40 seconds. If anything, the Shotguns need even more Status chance and duration. The Hek is closer to the Braton with its 6% Status and 1.90s average time between procs. Granted, the Braton would do bit more than half the Bleed damage of the Hek, but it would more consistently proc Slash compared to Hek's Puncture, and this is comparing a Shotgun with 25% Status to a starting rifle with 6% Status... The Soma will proc twice as often, with a 30% base Crit and 3x Crit Multiplier...

Issue is most shotguns proc status in burst while not having the downtime or recoil stack of burst which is stronger/more important for kills than sustained procs unless its somehow a boss that isnt immune to status as wolf was during the end of his lifetime where it doesnt matter as much anymore (tho non-innate multishot instant burst weapons/quartakk n quatz still have the peak of status efficiency).

[GruntBlender]

7 hours ago, Andele3025 said:

Issue is most shotguns proc status in burst

It still takes them much longer to proc the first status than it takes rifles. On average, those times I mentioned are also how long it takes for the first proc. The Dera will proc before the Hek gets its second shot off.

[Andele3025]

10 minutes ago, GruntBlender said:

It still takes them much longer to proc the first status than it takes rifles. On average, those times I mentioned are also how long it takes for the first proc. The Dera will proc before the Hek gets its second shot off.

No it wont unless you are comparing a projectile shotgun with hitscan rifle or the 2 exceptions of non-innate multishot instant burst guns/quartakk and quatz.

[GruntBlender]

1 minute ago, Andele3025 said:

No it wont

Explain.