Better Dual Wielding System?

[castem]

It's just an idea; you can keep your fantasy.  It's not like DE is going to listen to what I say.  (It'd be nice if they did though...at least in this thread.)

 

Oh, and to give an example of how this might work, I've done an example of how Vasto stats might look in-game below:

 

Vasto

Damage:  50

Trigger Type:  Semi-Auto

Wield Type:  Any hand

Fire Rate:  5

Accuracy:  16 (11)

Reload Time:  1

Crit Chance:  30 (15)

Crit Damage:  150

Clip:  6

 

 

With this, you can clearly see its stats as a stand-alone gun (regular numbers) and its stats when dual-wielded (the stats in parenthesis).  

*Note that for this example, I used my suggestion from the previous post (double the crit chance of a weapon when it's only wielded in the main hand).

 

Since some stats don't change; those stats don't have a number in parenthesis after them.

- Fire Rate doesn't change, but when dual-wielding each weapon fires according to its fire rate.  (So Dual Vastos = 5 + 5 = 10 fire rate total.)

- Reload Time doesn't change, but since each weapon requires reloading, the reload time of each weapon being wielded gets added together.  (So Dual Vastos = 1 + 1 = 2 second reload total.)

- Clip size doesn't change, because a Vasto will have 6 shots regardless of whether or not you dual wield it.  (So Dual Vastos = 6 + 6 = 12 shots total.)

 

EDIT:  changed "Weapon Type" to "Wield Type" as to not cause any confusion.  Also made it so Fire Rate, Reload Time, and Clip Size don't get a "dual-wield" value (that value should be determined by both of the weapons being wielded).

Edited October 2, 2013 by castem

[ProjectKaeon]

So If you dual wield Vastos you'd potentially get a standard Multishot.

 

Yes or No?

[castem]

No.

 

Multishot refers to multiple bullets in a single shot.

 

Dual-wielding Vastos would let you shoot more shots.  (not more bullets per shot)

 

Example:

A single Vasto has a Fire Rate of 5, meaning it can shoot 5 shots per second.

Dual-wielding Vastos has a Fire Rate of 10 (each Vasto has a fire rate of 5 individually, but there are two of them.  5x2 = 10), meaning that Dual Vastos can shoot 10 shots per second.

 

Single Vasto = 5 shots in one second

 

Dual-wielding Vastos = 10 shots in one second

 

It's a matter of 'increased' fire rate, rather than multishot.

[ProjectKaeon]

No.

 

Multishot refers to multiple bullets in a single shot.

 

Dual-wielding Vastos would let you shoot more shots.  (not more bullets per shot)

 

Example:

A single Vasto has a Fire Rate of 5, meaning it can shoot 5 shots per second.

Dual-wielding Vastos has a Fire Rate of 10 (each Vasto has a fire rate of 5 individually, but there are two of them.  5x2 = 10), meaning that Dual Vastos can shoot 10 shots per second.

 

Single Vasto = 5 shots in one second

 

Dual-wielding Vastos = 10 shots in one second

 

It's a matter of 'increased' fire rate, rather than multishot.

No I mean with this system we should be able to use both Triggers, meaning 2 Shots. This would also make more sense with the PS4

Edited October 2, 2013 by NBlitZ

[tastycakes5]

How come we dot have singles of some weapons, then have no duals of other?

Why not give 2 melee slots and 2 sub weapon slots so you can pick witch handguns and single handed swords to dual wield. We can still have the huge accuracy loss and reload speed time changes ect but we would gain the ability to wield any combination of gun we want you could even remove the zoom on dual wields witch does make no sense and replace it with dual trigger buttons so you can fire each gun independently same with dual swords and even add new slashes and combos depending on direction and witch buttons even both are pressed*. I for one would support the ability to wield a Lex and Bronco at the same time or Skana and Skana Prime OR EVEN the Lato Vandal and the Lato Prime hmm yes? I don't support dual limited time guns... But I do support the face they should be allowed to be used with other guns to be given a chance and when the Skana Vandal is given out upon the closing of open beta into release of the game** I would love to use it + the Skana Prime side by side***

 

They could probably set it up so each gun's reload time is x2 accuracy is cut in half recoil is x1.5 but fire rate is x1.5 the benefit instead of being 2x the fire rate instead being the diversity of guns. Swords could use daggers, long swordsand glaive/boomerang but with the increased ability to hit more offten from both weapons you lose out on maybe 3rd of the damage on power attacks and weilding a single handed sword with no offhand could give its normal attacks 1.5x more damage. With the thrown melee you can use a dagger in the offhand actually letting you fight as it bounces around.

 

In closing I would see this as a great balancer for the small arms vs the bigger weapons**** "diversity"

 

* Probably have to make melee its own weapon finally so we can use m1 and m2 for both slashes losing the ability to block with dual wield

** You know its gonna happen

*** Once I get 100-150 more bucks

**** DAMN IT GALATINE

this is a good idea, but what about the people who spent plat on the duel either ECT.

[castem]

No I mean with this system we should be able to use both Triggers, meaning 2 Shots. This would also make more sense with the PS4

 

The only way I could see them doing that is by removing Aim for dual-wielders.  I play Warframe on a Dualshock 3 (motioninjoy) and I've already used every available button on the gamepad (and I've still left some controls out).  

 

Rather than that, I was envisioning dual-wielding working somewhat like it does now.  For example, with Dual Vastos they would alternate every shot, and since they have the same fire rate they wouldn't start to overlap/overtake each other.

 

This gets a bit iffy with other combinations, like Vasto/Viper and Vasto/Bronco.  Vasto/Viper would just be a shooting-fest (which, with Vasto's kick, could end in disaster), and Vasto/Bronco would hard to make it time your shotgun shots.

 

Ultimately, I think removing Aim for dual-wielders would probably be the best option.  On a gamepad, it could look like this:

Primary Weapons, Secondary Weapons (not dual-wielded):

- L1 = aim

- R1 = shoot

 

Secondary weapons (dual-wielding):

- L1 = shoot left weapon

- R1 = shoot right weapon

 

Dual Melee (after you've already started swinging/charging an attack, and thus 'entered' melee):

- L1 (tap) = melee attack with left weapon

- L1 (hold) = charge attack with left weapon

- Melee button (tap) = melee attack with right weapon

- Melee button (hold) = charge attack with right weapon

 

"Melee button" being assignable by the player.  It couldn't (or at least, shouldn't) be R1 since players might want to switch quickly from melee to firing a weapon.  (Note that you would be able to charge both left and right weapons at once, resulting in a more powerful charge attack - something like we see with the Dual Heat Swords.)

 

Well, that's the best solution I can think of at the moment.  It's by no means perfect, but I don't think there is a perfect solution for this kind of problem.

Edited October 2, 2013 by castem

[MoyuTheTrinity]

The only way I could see them doing that is by removing Aim for dual-wielders.  I play Warframe on a Dualshock 3 (motioninjoy) and I've already used every available button on the gamepad (and I've still left some controls out).  

 

Rather than that, I was envisioning dual-wielding working somewhat like it does now.  For example, with Dual Vastos they would alternate every shot, and since they have the same fire rate they wouldn't start to overlap/overtake each other.

 

This gets a bit iffy with other combinations, like Vasto/Viper and Vasto/Bronco.  Vasto/Viper would just be a shooting-fest (which, with Vasto's kick, could end in disaster), and Vasto/Bronco would hard to make it time your shotgun shots.

 

Ultimately, I think removing Aim for dual-wielders would probably be the best option.  On a gamepad, it could look like this:

Primary Weapons, Secondary Weapons (not dual-wielded):

- L1 = aim

- R1 = shoot

 

Secondary weapons (dual-wielding):

- L1 = shoot left weapon

- R1 = shoot right weapon

 

Dual Melee (after you've already started swinging/charging an attack, and thus 'entered' melee):

- L1 (tap) = melee attack with left weapon

- L1 (hold) = charge attack with left weapon

- Melee button (tap) = melee attack with right weapon

- Melee button (hold) = charge attack with right weapon

 

"Melee button" being assignable by the player.  It couldn't (or at least, shouldn't) be R1 since players might want to switch quickly from melee to firing a weapon.  (Note that you would be able to charge both left and right weapons at once, resulting in a more powerful charge attack - something like we see with the Dual Heat Swords.)

 

Well, that's the best solution I can think of at the moment.  It's by no means perfect, but I don't think there is a perfect solution for this kind of problem.

I stated that they would have to remove the aiming for dual wield aining with dual weild is pretty stupid impossible anyways you ahve 2 iron sights you go into aim and your all of a sudden aiming down the space between both guns...how? removing this "feature" and adding dual triggers would remove the need for increased fire rate just have both guns fire independently

[Hayden11121]

Dual Kestrel...

 

*tries to hide erection*

[ProjectKaeon]

Dual Kestrel...

 

*tries to hide erection*

Reminds me of Blassreiter

[DoomFruit]

I want dual Supras. Or failing that, dual Dual Ethers.

[Othergrunty]

I don't see why not.

+1

I think there are some programming limitations.

[ProjectKaeon]

I think there are some programming limitations.

No they can do this.

[KD134]

I agree and from seeing the duel wielded weapons used next to a single handed, they are way under powered. 2 weapons should do more damage than a single blade. I should be able to kill more enemies in the same amount of time it takes for the single to kill a few, which is not the case at the moment. But I do agree that there should be 2 slots so we can choose which combo of single handed weapons we want.

[Eraiez]

Dual Dual Broncos. Or Twin Twin Vipers. Or Twin Twin Gremlins. Or AkAkboltos. Nice suggestion, i too didn't really get why we needed 12 hours to get two boltos in our hands. Or why we would do that with an orokin cell.

 

Side note, Hikous or kunais or despairs on both hands hahahaha imagine the minigun-esque style throwing stars!

 

+1

[Hayden11121]

Dual Dual Broncos. Or Twin Twin Vipers. Or Twin Twin Gremlins. Or AkAkboltos. Nice suggestion, i too didn't really get why we needed 12 hours to get two boltos in our hands. Or why we would do that with an orokin cell.

 

Side note, Hikous or kunais or despairs on both hands hahahaha imagine the minigun-esque style throwing stars!

 

+1

Dual AkKogake

Kogake on each side of my Loki's Head, and on my Shoulders. I am a monster.

[Thundersquid]

Make  "hand and a half" galatine and be able to dual wield it so you still get the impressive visage and still put out good good damage

[Eraiez]

Dual AkKogake

Kogake on each side of my Loki's Head, and on my Shoulders. I am a monster.

Dual Dual Zorens for me. 4x the traveling speed i could literally fly across phobos.

[Orin.]

the only thing that i'd like to know is how are Dual Vastos losing their polarity when each vasto had a polarized slot?

[ProjectKaeon]

If they originally had a polarized slot then you keep them if you polarized the "Dual Vastos" Before the update then both will be polarized.

[Vector88]

Dual Grakatas

 

I want to attempt to kill enemies in a hail of bullets fired out at a mindblowing speed. I'll probably be shooting the ceiling most of the time, but it'll be tons of fun regardless

[humbleion]

awesome idea and i feel the pain on not having enough money to finish up getting founders, especialy now that its ending next month and there's no way ill have 150 by then for my grand master

[AkunoAyanokoji]

Das bumps

[41_ma3]

My thoughts are hip fire Flux Rifle + off-hand Spectra w/o zoom aim. Fires individually. Impractical but awesome.

[mercenaryfighter2947]

yea i agree but if you already made dual sidearms and they change this will it take 1 or 2 inventory spaces?

Edited October 15, 2013 by mercenaryfighter2947

[ProjectKaeon]

yea i agree but if you already made dual sidearms and they change this will it take 1 or 2 inventory spaces?

Most likely 2, But that would be fixed if there is a "Earn slots by leveling" System