Rubedo Rubedo Rubedo

[Mak_Gohae]

You are getting a free frame..... lets not complain about how long it takes.

1. Dont just focus on farming or you'll be driven mad.

2. Do work your way to other planets that offer the material so you have a bigger area to farm from.

[Dalewyn]

2. Do work your way to other planets that offer the material so you have a bigger area to farm from.

The problem right now is that rubedo only drops on Earth and Pluto, and alloy plates from Venus and Ceres. It does get old after a while.

[cypherhalo]

Wow! Glad to see so many people agree. Lots of ideas too although the simplest really seems to be just reworking the blueprints so not all of them rely on Rubedo and yes, I neglected to mention, alloy plates. Rubedo is IMO a bit harder to get but between both just about every BP needs one or both of them, so it just gets ridiculous. If they need to make some other mats more rare in order to diversify the BPs that is fine, just make it so that I can do something besides farm Earth/Pluto or Venus/Ceres if I want to get a new weapon/warframe. There's a good 6 or so other planets out there.

[GzHertz]

Ok, seriously. I know you need some rare mats to add some challenge to making some of the items. That is more then fair. That said, does it always have to be Rubedo? I am sitting on 3 or 4 different blueprints right now which all need Rubedo. It is a bit crazy as it basically forces me to play Earth over and over again. Yes, I know Pluto offers Rubedo as well but I'm still working way up there, they're a bit crazy tough for my current level. So, can we add some more diversity here instead of just making everything cost Rubedo? So, you know, I have reasons to play some of the other planets other then, well, I feel like it?

The whole point is to not make it easy in the first place =.=

Wait till you need neurodes

Edited February 19, 2013 by GzHertz

[GzHertz]

Don't say I'm founder I just got it recently I was working hard too...

I recommend solo if possible so you can maximize your loot for materials.

[GzHertz]

Some possible solutions;

- An option to reprocess mods for resources - Warframe mods give rubedo, weapon mods give alloys (and both have a small chance to turn up a random 'rare' mat, neurodes or a control module etc). The yield amount depends on the quality of the mod (whites 5-10, greens 10-20, blues 20-30). This gives the player a choice of turning unwanted mods into cash or resources, whichever is needed at the time.

- Give rubedo and alloys a small chance to drop in any mission, anywhere. Won't stop people farming the hotspots where it drops more commonly, but perhaps a new player will have some built up in the bank by the time that shiny blueprint drops. Since everything in the world seems to be made out of these two things, it makes sense you'd find them all over.

- Make boxes containing 50-100 rubedo or alloys and add them to alert and login bonus reward lists. If possible, use them to replace the +weaponxp rewards. Then take the +weaponxp rewards out behind some bins and club them to death with a spoon.

- Add resource booster consumables and artifacts.

- Make all bosses drop rubedo where they would otherwise drop the regional uncommon mat. So, bosses would either drop a bp, a rare, or rubedo - running a boss is never a total waste of time.

- Don't add boxes of rubedo to the store for plat only. That's more of an anti-suggestion, but it's probably the most important one.

As Mak_Gohae has mention it is rather fair you know.

I recommend farm at infested it is easier for excaliburs and others. Weapon to use is melee.

[Tekkaman-Blade]

Maybe add rubedo to other planets? One of the main problems is that instead of playing new content, we're forced to farm. So at least put rubedo in some of the less treaded systems and possibly the next planet to e patched in.

[Nokturnel]

']We are continually looking at the stats and tuning the drop/rarity tables to give players the best experience. As you can imagine for some things we are offering for sale, we need to be tread carefully between frustrating free players and ruining the value of purchases made by players that can support us

I'm kinda new to this game but it's really &!$$ing me off how much they're trying to exploit their so called "Beta testers" by limiting how much content they have access to and forcing them to pay if they want new content. If people want to support your company, THEY WILL VOLUNTARILY SUPPORT YOUR COMPANY, don't try to force them to do it by making getting anything for free a horribly boring chore. Create purely costmetic items people can buy to support you, you already have founder packs people can get to support you, but enough with all this "Pay to not wait days at a time", "Pay to Not Grind" and "Pay for more Content" BS.

After trying this game out over the weekend, I love the game itselft but their Free to Play model sucks, it's so bad I'm probably not going to buy a founder pack knowing they'll probably keep this BS model even after they release the game.

Remember when companies used to pay people to beta test their products? Not the other way around.

They're only scaring away people who would otherwise support them if they would stop being so greedy for cash.

(For people who have excuses like, Ohh they need the money blah blah blah. Yea there's this thing it's kinda big, it's called League of Legends, you can easily not have to pay a dime and yet they've made bank on just selling cosmetic stuff also there's this thing called Kickstarter where fans will support you without even being able to play your game. So stop with the sob story of needing cash and start trying to please your fanbase. Because without fans noones going to give you a dime)

Oh and you're kidding yourself if you don't think they designed the game to be boring and hard to get Rubedo. Of course they know they could make it easier.

Edited February 19, 2013 by Nokturnel

[Aggh]

I don't personally see anything wrong with it as it is. It's about as grindy as most f2p games are imo.

[Nokturnel]

I don't personally see anything wrong with it as it is. It's about as grindy as most f2p games are imo.

There's a reason most F2P games aren't very popular.

Yet League of Legends, not grindy at all, huge hit.

[Gaiters]

Warframe =/= LoL.

I think that we're all feeling the Rubedo material pinch, but this issue should sort itself out as new areas and weapons(ones that don't require rubedo ;]) are released.

Edited February 19, 2013 by ZEDD

[Nokturnel]

Warframe =/= LoL.

Of course it's not, but their free to play model works, a greedy free to play model like this one doesn't work.

Do I need to list every single unpopular Free to Play game that has a horrible model?

[Gaiters]

No, what you need to realise is warframe isn't complete. And it's model will make more sense as more things that are free to play within it get released.

[Nokturnel]

what you need to realise is warframe isn't complete.

And yet they're already trying to milk money out of beta testers?

Aren't we supposed to be testing the game, giving balance feedback, giving ability feedback, reporting bugs? Not paying them so we can actually test the content they're not letting us test/use unless we pay or wait a long time?

I don't get how people can be so casual about these supposedly "closed beta" model new free to play games are using.

They're literally making their testers pay them to test the game for the company.

Yea if you pay you're supporting the company, but make that completely voluntary not mandatory in order to actually beta test everything.

Edited February 19, 2013 by Nokturnel

[Aggh]

There's a reason most F2P games aren't very popular.

Yet League of Legends, not grindy at all, huge hit.

LOL isn't grindy? On what planet?

Edited February 19, 2013 by Aggh

[Nokturnel]

LOL isn't grindy? On what planet?

I know tons of people who have like every hero haven't paid a cent, it might be bad for new players seeing as there's so many heroes they need to be caught up on but they do allow you to use one of every type of hero free each week to test it. Of course that system couldn't work in Warframe, but still, the Warframe design would be like forcing players to pay money if they want the better half of their masteries and rune pages.

Also maybe you just don't enjoy MoBas, but when I play LoL I do it for the fun of it, not because I feel the need to grind IP.

Pretty sure noone enjoys grinding Rubedo or waiting 3 days to finish crafting a Warframe.

Edited February 19, 2013 by Nokturnel

[FreshJB2]

Some possible solutions;

- An option to reprocess mods for resources - Warframe mods give rubedo, weapon mods give alloys (and both have a small chance to turn up a random 'rare' mat, neurodes or a control module etc). The yield amount depends on the quality of the mod (whites 5-10, greens 10-20, blues 20-30). This gives the player a choice of turning unwanted mods into cash or resources, whichever is needed at the time.

- Give rubedo and alloys a small chance to drop in any mission, anywhere. Won't stop people farming the hotspots where it drops more commonly, but perhaps a new player will have some built up in the bank by the time that shiny blueprint drops. Since everything in the world seems to be made out of these two things, it makes sense you'd find them all over.

- Make boxes containing 50-100 rubedo or alloys and add them to alert and login bonus reward lists. If possible, use them to replace the +weaponxp rewards. Then take the +weaponxp rewards out behind some bins and club them to death with a spoon.

- Add resource booster consumables and artifacts.

- Make all bosses drop rubedo where they would otherwise drop the regional uncommon mat. So, bosses would either drop a bp, a rare, or rubedo - running a boss is never a total waste of time.

- Don't add boxes of rubedo to the store for plat only. That's more of an anti-suggestion, but it's probably the most important one.

Two more possible solutions:

-Lower drop count but tie rubedo and alloy plates to enemy types. Rubedo could become a key component in Grineer armor, while alloy plates be a key ingredient in Corpus armor

-Make both rubedo and alloy plates craftable in the foundry (the item descriptions would have to change, though)

Personally, i don't think there would be anything wrong with selling rare resources in the market as lomg as there are alternatives.

[Harazard]

I don't know guys i did 2-3 runs on Earth from and then i noticed that from 39 rubedo i got 130 rubedo just by doing some of the missions which are closer to Everest (Cambria etc.)

[Gaiters]

And yet they're already trying to milk money out of beta testers?

Aren't we supposed to be testing the game, giving balance feedback, giving ability feedback, reporting bugs? Not paying them so we can actually test the content they're not letting us test/use unless we pay or wait a long time?

I don't get how people can be so casual about these supposedly "closed beta" model new free to play games are using.

They're literally making their testers pay them to test the game for the company.

Yea if you pay you're supporting the company, but make that completely voluntary not mandatory in order to actually beta test everything.

No, they don't need to milk money out of beta testers, but they also don't need to spend the time creating a model for the beta testers only to throw it out afterwords. I think they have plenty of users testing all aspects of the game, don't feel any pressure to buy anything if you don't want to. It's self imposed pressure.

I don't know guys i did 2-3 runs on Earth from and then i noticed that from 39 rubedo i got 130 rubedo just by doing some of the missions which are closer to Everest (Cambria etc.)

Yes Cambria is a good one. >_>

[Dalewyn]

I don't know guys i did 2-3 runs on Earth from and then i noticed that from 39 rubedo i got 130 rubedo just by doing some of the missions which are closer to Everest (Cambria etc.)

130 / 2.5 = 52. This means, taking a generous number, you got 52 rubedo per mission; approximately 1~3 drops of rubedo per run

Now consider that a warframe requires 800 rubedo:

800 / 52 = 16 runs to make 1 warframe, assuming you're averaging 1~3 drops of rubedo. The number of runs can and will fluctuate depending on luck.

Now consider that most people will be making more stuff than just 1 warframe. Let's assume 1 warframe and fragor + scindo:

800 + (300 * 2) / 52 = 27 runs to make 1 warframe and fragor + scindo.

Now consider that most people will want to make more than just 1 warframe. Let's assume 3 warframes and fragor + scindo:

(800 * 3) + (300 * 3) / 52 = 64 runs to make 3 warframes and fragor + scindo.

Obviously, the number of rubedo runs that a person needs to farm through quickly reaches a level where many will go "dear god why am I doing this?", compounded by the fact that the person has amassed a mountain of other resources that have no uses whatsoever (dem nano spores) just from playing missions for non-farming purposes.

Should I now go through alloy plates? I believe alloy plate is even worse than rubedo in some respects because alloy plates are used for all alt. helmets and almost all weapons in addition to warframes.

The problem is, as was mentioned earlier, too much demand for a resource whose supply is limited and/or annoying to procure. Most of us also likely don't want drop rates increased. The answer here then is to better balance the demand for resources used when crafting items. Why are plastids used in only 2 items while rubedo and alloy plates combined are used in over 35 different items? Why does nothing use nano spores? Why are polymer bundles the only high-in-demand common resource? Why are most rare resources besides an orokin cell an annoyance and pointless to receive?

tl;dr: The problem isn't in the supply of rubedo and alloy plate, the problem is that everything and their mother demands rubedo and alloy plate.

[Gaiters]

I think this is one of those turn all knobs to 11 scenario's.

Why are plastids used in only 2 items while rubedo and alloy plates combined are used in over 35 different items? Why does nothing use nano spores? Why are polymer bundles the only high-in-demand common resource? Why are most rare resources besides an orokin cell an annoyance and pointless to receive?

Because the items that will call those materials into greater demand haven't been created yet. What ever happend to just playing the game and seeing what materials come your way? I find that the amount of things I have to level outweighs the xp I get from repeating levels with the materials I need. Maybe while you are waiting for your warframe to finish(four days) you could be playing levels that include the materials you need to make your next warframe.

Edited February 20, 2013 by ZEDD

[Dalewyn]

Because the items that will call those materials into greater demand haven't been created yet. What ever happend to just playing the game and seeing what materials come your way? I find that the amount of things I have to level outweighs the xp I get from repeating levels with the materials I need. Maybe while you are waiting for your warframe to finish(four days) you could be playing levels that include the materials you need to make your next warframe.

Because farming for rubedo and alloy plates, then making warframe, then going back to farming for more rubedo and alloy plates is fun and something everyone wants to do, amirite?

Making big-time goodies like warframes and weapons should entail effort and time on the part of the player, but this does not neccesarily mean that the player has to repeatedly farm rubedo and alloy plates on Earth/Pluto and Venus/Ceres nearly everytime they want to make something.

[Gaiters]

Nobody is making you farm anything. If you choose to repeat the same level over and over, well good on ya.

Stop making yourself a martyr. You can currently fight any faction on all available level types over multiple difficulties to get the resouces you want.

There is no problem.

Edited February 20, 2013 by ZEDD

[Dalewyn]

I think you are fundamentally misunderstanding the problem: The current supplies of rubedo and alloy plates are fine, they are categorized as "uncommon" resources and that should mean rubedo and alloy plates should drop in relatively small quantities at any given point in time.

The problem is the fact that players need to farm rubedo and alloy plates almost endlessly if we want to make anything worthwhile. Every single warframe as of this writing requires rubedo and alloy plates owing to a shared ingredient table. Many weapons, including most of the high-tier weapons, also require rubedo and/or alloy plates.

We are saying that demand for rubedo and alloy plate need to be balanced to address two things:

1. Addressing the disproportionate value placed on rubedo and alloy plates that makes most of the other resources entirely worthless. I personally cringe and sigh any time I see "+1 morphics", this should not be happening. In a game that has proper resource distribution we would be celebrating whenever we get rare drops, but right now this only applies to orokin cells.

2. Addressing the need to constantly farm rubedo and alloy plates to make almost anything notable. We are not saying that we want item crafting to be easymode, we are saying we want balanced and varied demand for the things we make.

While you may still not agree that this is a problem, the fact still remains that the current system places disproportionate demand on rubedo and alloy plate. As closed beta testers, we should be actively pointing out balance issues that can and will drive players away and act detrimentally to a game's overall health, especially balance issues in something as essential and fundamental as resources.

Also, I implore you to stop contradicting yourself. You acknowledge that farming a given resource entails "repeat[ing] the same level over and over", and then imply variety in farming by moving on to say we "can currently fight any faction on all available level types over multiple difficulties" for farming. In your previous post, you also mentioned "playing the game and seeing what materials come [my] way" before moving on to say I "could be playing levels that include the materials need to make [my] next warframe" while waiting for my warframe to finish. You argue one thing one moment and then say the exact opposite the next moment, which or what are you saying?

Edited February 20, 2013 by Dalewyn

[Cademus]

I'd like to note that if there were no grinding to be done on this game I would already be finished with it.