Shield And Pike. Or Not. Because This Is The Future.

[kimahn]

so ! i wanted a classical shield and jousting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jousting) lance. but heh. this is the future and we only have sandskates and whales. so we need a bigger shield, and a lighter lance. lighter .. the fire is dawn light right ?

 

so i scratched a plasma lance. because i love plasma. air, arc, high pressure. awesome. so imagine it like a plane turbine, but inverted. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_engine)

 

i made a little scratch to help our tennos minds :

 

 

 

the concept is simple. impale. burn. have a good time, or block. burn. have a good time either.

 

so 2 attack and a final strike :

 

1rst attack, an estoc stike (who can impale if direct hit with the tip )

2nd attack, a sweep, left to right ( who can thrown away the impaled dudes because it is rude to not throw them away)

final attack shield up, using its energy to boost the lance and produce a fire vortex 160° wide, no impact but huge flame.

 

jumped attack : falling like a rhino in little flowers, the spear at full power aiming the ground, making a lava puddle.

 

slide attack : 180° arc strike, with a halved lance.

 

and THE CHARGED ATTACK (in caps because i love the charges.) : shield up, full plasma field, boosting the lance at full power too, then a good old fashion charge in the middle of the poor grinneers, impaling everything in front, and burning everything down.

 

theorical maths :

 

1rst of all melee needs love. i think. because it's risky to be in melee. it takes time too you can get stagged and stuff, melee should at least be equivalent to the damage done with 3s of continuous fire i think, but nevermind.

 

basic attack : 40+ fire dot

charged attack : 250 baseline + at least 100 if impaled + fire dot

spin attack : 70+ fire dot

leap attack : 150+ fire dot, but with a long vulnerability time

 

 

the fire dot should be something like 5s long. the number of ticks depend on what is equipped you know, fury and stuff :p

 

 

 

now the 2 part :

 

the shield. because the parry system is nearly unused, and it is sad. we have parry mods. we could have a block/parry feature instead.

 

as i tried to show in the scratch, the shield could be small, with muzzles, and project a shield like the volt one if the "parry mode" is used, the player could be a walking obstacle/cover for his friends, the counter part could be that only the lance is usable in this mode.

 

 

that's why i put a second turbine in the shield, imagine it like a deodorant spray in front of a lighter, the whole thing in front of a ventilator.

 

we could have interaction between the 2 of them : the more bullets and strikes the plasma shield take, the more energy it sucks in the lance, is too much damage is taken, the whole system needs to cooldown.

 

we could have new mods, defensive slots etc ... that could be great !

 

what do you think ? :p

 

ps : i ll make more scratches if the idea looks good to you :p

Edited October 3, 2013 by kimahn

[EganMC]

Who cares if it's the future or not, we have western revolvers.

Edited October 3, 2013 by EganMC

[V101]

this is soo tera, but it could work, we also need whips, tonfas, katars etc etc etc

[Morgax]

I guess we will get plenty of shields, i'd like tower shields or something bigger than bucklers.

[iBuzzKill]

+1

[kimahn]

@morgax you mean shield as a separated weapon, with it s own slot ? it would be great too, i want to use this damn parry button :p and a shield bash could be extremely usefull ... and fun !

 

for the shield i was thinking about electrodes, in a gas cloud, like

Edited October 4, 2013 by kimahn

[Altey]

GAWD YES

[ErudiusNacht]

Shut Up and Take my PLATINUM!

 

Seriously though, you can use the spartan pose and attack moves from 300 to incorporate defense and offense simultaneously.

Edited October 6, 2013 by ErudiusNacht

[kimahn]

im not darvo, i cant do that !

[VoidWraith]

hey why not? we already have heavy hammers, heavy axes, two handed swords, pole arms, bo staffs, mini scythes and scythes, boomerangs, so yeah why not a shield and pike (no sarcasm intended).

 

if others disagree with you, well its just their opinion, as long as you believe in the idea.

 

if you want to make it futuristic, you can combine the shield into a pike, so that youll have a shield/pike guard thing to make it multipurpose. instead of 2 separate things.

[kimahn]

great, so now i must harass scott until his beard fall off, lets do this ! :p Darvo if you hear me, this is an opportunity to make big cash, we just need a corpus lab and a dozen of engineers

Edited October 5, 2013 by kimahn

[ErudiusNacht]

great, so now i must harass scott until his beard fall off, lets do this ! :p Darvo if you hear me, this is an opportunity to make big cash, we just need a corpus lab and a dozen of engineers

 

Well you can PM Darvo you know. Lol. ==>https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/user/459918-darvo/

Edited October 5, 2013 by ErudiusNacht

[GeneralT]

I would love Shield and Pike it could be cool to have some bonus defense if you use a one handed melee weapon, Sword and Shield would look cool too.

Or a massive Shield it self like todays Riot Shields, just more spacey and high tech.

[ErudiusNacht]

SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEEEEEEY.

 

Honestly bro, please stop with the cliche one-liners and actually contribute to the discussion. I think I've mentioned this already on the other posts. I don't have anything against you, but what you're doing to Forums is really counter-productive.

 

As for the shield + lance concept, although the word "Tenno" and ninjas are Japanese terms, several non-asian terms and frames themselves have entered the fray. Vauban is actually French. Saryn is from a gas in chemistry. Nova is, well, duh. So I guess we have some leeway into the origins of our concepts.

 

Also, It would be nice if you could create a unique move-set that incorporates defense and offense with this setup. I don't want it to become something like Monster Hunter, but maybe you can consider my previous spartan suggestion. You could also try what Achilles (Brad Pitt) did in the Movie Troy when he dueled with Hector. Now those move-sets are original and balanced.

[kimahn]

i didnt saw the film, but i imagine you talking about a buckler/warpike fight , i was more in a joust pike concept, something heavy, not really meant for fighting but more like a walking tower, something that you would bring in a full rushed sabotage, but more in a siege like mission, like def or survival :)

 

the hoplite way of fighting is really interesting too,(by far more coherent and realistic)  i agree :)

 

yeah, sure, this is far from the "kill or be killed" logic but it could bring something interesting, the only real defense tool we have now is the frost bubble, a passive static thing, i find this kind of boring

 

i cant really explain the whole thing in english im sorry, perhaps one day we'll have a francophone subforum and someone could translate it ^^

[Altey]

Honestly bro, please stop with the cliche one-liners and actually contribute to the discussion. I think I've mentioned this already on the other posts. I don't have anything against you, but what you're doing to Forums is really counter-productive.

 

As for the shield + lance concept, although the word "Tenno" and ninjas are Japanese terms, several non-asian terms and frames themselves have entered the fray. Vauban is actually French. Saryn is from a gas in chemistry. Nova is, well, duh. So I guess we have some leeway into the origins of our concepts.

 

Also, It would be nice if you could create a unique move-set that incorporates defense and offense with this setup. I don't want it to become something like Monster Hunter, but maybe you can consider my previous spartan suggestion. You could also try what Achilles (Brad Pitt) did in the Movie Troy when he dueled with Hector. Now those move-sets are original and balanced.

Honestly bro stop correcting me . Its annoying.

Shut Up and Take my PLATINUM!

 

Seriously though, you can use the spartan pose and attack moves from 300 to incorporate defense and offense simultaneously.

And you tell what to write?

[ErudiusNacht]

Honestly bro stop correcting me . Its annoying.

And you tell what to write?

 

No, I don't tell anyone what to write. Nobody has that right. Everybody is open to his or her opinion. I'm just asking YOU politely to stop spamming the thread/forum because most of your replies are one-liners. I admit to having done that as you blatantly pointed out, but I do not do it on almost all the new posts the come out on this sub-forum. It feels like you're just racking up post count just like an affinity leecher in-game. That Loki avatar suits you perfectly.

 

Please contribute something at least. And now you wasted space by double posting while still not contributing to the discussion.

 

 

As for the Shield and Pike reference for defense, then I would suggest the move-set of the 300 film. Furthermore, if two or more team members carry the same weapon, they can perhaps link it in a Phalanx formation. Now that would be defense. Imagine four players with 2 Phalanx formations guarding the two choke points of Xini.

 

If for rush, I would recommend Monster Hunter then, although I didn't want it to emulate the Gunlance concept, after rethinking it, "Heck this is the future anyways..."' so I went with that.  Since these are plasma weapons, why not give it some "Bam!" during the charge attack? Here is the reference for Gunlances: http://monsterhunter.wikia.com/wiki/Gunlance

Edited October 8, 2013 by ErudiusNacht

[smithf]

Just for breadth of ideas/discussion.
This is my take or the approach I would take.
(I look for new stuff that can make a weapon insteresting, instead of just being variants of existing one having new looks)

 

First of all, I would forget the traditional shape/form of pike/shield.
Instead, I note down what is the function, or intended function:

The old pike/shield

Pike Functions

• short thrust (up to arm's limit) and in some cases, swing?
• attack enemy before we are attacked.
• brace against anti-cavalry/charge
• formation

Shield Functions

• Block/Deflect enemy attacks (shield bash not so appropriate for pike. This is probably just to compensate for the pike's unwieldiness and difficulty in quick change of stance)

 

Now, Try to "upgrade" these functions to space-age, removing obsolete function and adding new functions due to changed context.

The space-age/sci-fi pike/shield

"Pike" Functions

• basic thrust attack, which is activated on melee action. Charged attack can either be a more power thrust or a swing for variety. Swing may knock down enemies in a wide range, but probably does less damage than charged attacks of other weapons.
• attack enemy before we are attacked.
    In the age where ranged weapons are common, this doesn't seem to apply a lot to ranged weapons. So we will limit this to melee weapon. But the core function remains: the range must be long enough to hit the enemies before they can make the first strike.
• anti-cavalry/charge
    Charging concept is not defined at the moment. But this can actually give rise to another form of "passive" melee damage. i.e. instead of the usual triggered melee attack, we will "brace" the weapon passively which will hit and damage any enemies that runs into it. As an extension of application, allow us to "brace" the weapon then RUN into enemies like a lance. On application of this into game play is to implement it as a special "block". In addition to just "blocking", the Tenno will hold and brace the pike which will enable it to damage enemies according to the relative speed of impact. (e.g. incoming speed of enemy + running speed of Tenno in opposite directions) One interesting result will be, the sprint speed of the Tenno, after mods and effects, will influence the damage. The most extreme example can be an invisible Loki with maxed Rush Mod, and under the influence of a Volt's maxed Speed power. Then the Loki can just hold BLOCK and run through the level skewering all who stands in his way...
• formation
    Not applicable. Unless we have 4 volts with speed and bracing the pike and running abreast through the level skewering everything in a wide path. hmm....

"Shield" Functions

• when used with a pike, probably more passive. Overlaps somewhat functions of energy shield.
• if the "pike"'s normal attack is properly balanced (i.e. less agile due to size and unwieldiness), perhaps the shield can be implemented as a  small innate, auto-parry/block chance. In addition to mods etc. When actively blocking (or bracing the spear), there will be increased damage reduction/parry/whatever. But if the "pike" is already on par with other melee weapons, then the shield should be nerfed.

 

Conclusion?

I am thinking that it will be interesting if the "space-pike/shield" can be with more unique features as in:

pike's normal/charged attack seems less damaging. But potentially with more stun/knock down.

• When thrusting with pike, it damages enemies behind each other, where the target in front receives most damage and enemies behind receives progressively less damage.
• The shield is an integral part of the weapon combo which gives innate parry/blocking even when not blocking, and increased effectiveness when actively blocking
• when BLOCK action is engaged, in addition to the resistance to damage, pike gains the passive damage stance, which damages targets that comes into contact with the tip where damage is increaesed by the relative speed of impact
• Tenno BLOCKING with pike/shield can RUN into enemies to increase the speed of impact which increases the passive damage of the pike.
• Volt's Speed will unleash a monster...
• What will 4xVolt Speeded Pike/Shield Rushers unleash?
• bonus crazy idea: allow the pike to be used as a pole vault that will either allow higher vaulted jumps, or pole vaulted kicks

 

[Altey]

No, I don't tell anyone what to write. Nobody has that right. Everybody is open to his or her opinion. I'm just asking YOU politely to stop spamming the thread/forum because most of your replies are one-liners. I admit to having done that as you blatantly pointed out, but I do not do it on almost all the new posts the come out on this sub-forum. It feels like you're just racking up post count just like an affinity leecher in-game. That Loki avatar suits you perfectly.

 

Im not spamming

[kimahn]

i like your ideas, i really do !

 

 

we could devellop strategies (hello wendell nightmare) but before i want to talk about the whole stagger/interrupt/knockdown mechanic. this is the main reason of the overuse of ironskin and rhino (atleast for me, if ironskin wasnt in game i ll surely play a Volt, and i would probably have stopped the game way early ) the typical scenario is :

 

one ancient. in your back, you are already mashing other things, probably a toxic, you keep your distances, you try to kill it without taking poison damage and BOOM *@##$slap. youre on the ground.

 

in the time, your 1100 shield is nearly down, mutated corpus keep exploding, pushing you, if youre unlucky, a disruptive dude drained your juice,so tapping frenetically your 4 will do nothing.

jumping is not an option, the move takes too much time, you will die before the melee impact.

you cant shoot. you re surrounded, even if you kill 5 targets, you will die.

you cant switch on your embolis. the switch takes time. and the time you spray them, you will die.

you can push your luck and try a jump slide, praying for no other stagger (yes, they can get you mid air) or kd.

 

but most of the time... you will die.

 

thats why a real defensive weapon, even if it's not relly coherent with the "kill or be killed" way, should prove itself fun, and useful. you re on the ground, you know that you will die if you try to stand up. to solutions : turtle. protect your vital parts. but this is a wargame, the ennemies will not stop. the other, more warframe-ish, do a melee move on ground to stop the attack (this should be integrated if they want to keep the who knockdown thing), get up, escape and shoot, charge and swing, use a power.

 

the shield and pike could be an alternative, as a fully defensive weapon : on the ground, use your parry, you raise your shield, and prepare yourself to use your lance, that also why ill go for a plasma lance : i ll just aim at the sky and make the fire rain. whatever.

 

the whole this is to create a tank gameplay. not only an ironskinned dude who can simply ignore everything until it falls off, but a real gameplay. protect your allies (namely nova) give the opportunity to the others to shoot without have to run like mad and use bugs or lame mod combos

 

 

 

i'll take the wendell survival nightmare ex : ( the normal mode is not that easy too without a nyx, and nyx can be one shotted )

 

 

hellions : they fly fast. really fast, even faster with host lag. their missile shot is extremely strong even at level 55.

eviserators : their miter ... you got it.

napalms : fire.

even shocktroopers can pepper us badly.

 

most of the peoples dont go to phobos on solo and or nightmare because this is "hard" or use aoe weapons / skill overuse.

 

imagine it with just 2 lancers. they protect, move slowly. they can destroy targets at a reasonable range (atleast half of the embolist range)

a wandering dude could use them as a shelf, to reload, build energy, replenish his/her shield. a nova sould use them as a moving cover,spreading m.prime, we could devellop a real synergy between players

 

actually what can we do together ?

 

move. most of the time we dont. we all go at different speed. some of us use zorens. other use slide. others just run.

we can go in aoe skills : bastille. bubble.

we can do more dmg : sonar/m.prime/roar

 

sure, the is other skills that we use in group but most of the time, we dont look for each other, we just wander, kill things, tag loots. we go back if someone is hurt. we use an ult, rez the fallen, rinse and reapeat

 

in wendell, or another phobos high wave: things go out of hand fast. they come from everywhere. you still need to move. moving slowly in blubbles. using chaos. not really good.

 

a siege mode could be useful.

 

 

so i ll add this to you conclusions :

 

a "on ground" move.

a siege mode.

a sanction for using this weapon. i ll surely block the usage of a primary weapon. gun and melee. perhaps a crippled speed too.

a counter move. after X dmg absorbed the charge could have a bonus.

a way to extend the blocking area.

Edited October 8, 2013 by kimahn

[Krysis_V]

The only reason why I want to see a shield is so that I can payback all those annoying Shield Lancers.

 

Otherwise, no not really. We are ninjas man. :P

[kimahn]

i play a 2 meter giant with a medieval sword, the ninjaness inside me died longtime ago :p

[ErudiusNacht]

The only reason why I want to see a shield is so that I can payback all those annoying Shield Lancers.

 

Otherwise, no not really. We are ninjas man. :P

 

Lol. I hate them too man. I might as well want a chain and sickle thingy to payback all those Grineer Scorpions.

 

As for this thread suggesting shield while maintaining a ninja theme (well kimahn pretty much said it), I think the ninja them flew out the window ever since they introduced the heavy weapons. Ever seen a ninja wield a huge hammer? I've only seen that in comedy anime or Naruto. (Same thing huh?)

 

But anyways, the point raised by the community is "THIS IS THE FUTURE!" right? Oh I just wish we had lightsabers then.

Edited October 9, 2013 by ErudiusNacht

[Krysis_V]

Lol. I hate the too man. I might as well want a chain and sickle thingy to payback all those Grineer Scorpions.

 

As for this thread suggesting shield while maintaining a ninja theme (well kimahn pretty much said it), I think the ninja them flew out the window ever since they introduced the heavy weapons. Ever seen a ninja wield a huge hammer? I've only seen that in comedy anime or Naruto. (Same thing huh?)

 

But anyways, the point raised by the community is "THIS IS THE FUTURE!" right? Oh I just wish we had lightsabers then.

 

Ya know... I was thinking about the new mod, Parry. And it made me think... Why not allow us to do a real "parry", and if we push the block button at the correct time when the Corpus laser hit us, we could actually deflect the lazer back at them! A shield could do that same.

 

P.S: I think I should suggest that in the Fan Concept section. :D