Some Meta Thoughts On Warframe.

[ThePresident777]

On the idea that Warframe is an easy game:

People complain that Warframe is easy but that is not exactly true. I never hear people saying that no shields + energy drain nightmare mode is easy, even in Venus. I never hear people say that level 200 missions are easy. Of course, some outliers will make such claims.

What is easy are certain nightmare modes and lower level missions.

But, the easy missions stand in the way of the harder missions. People have to go through the easier missions to get to the challenge they want.  Which is only bad when it's the only "choice".

Removing that barrier will solve this problem.

Specific nightmare challenges are not currently selectable. Only random nightmare challenges are available. This makes it difficult for players to go and play what they want to play and be prepared for it. It's fine that random nightmare challenges exist. It's not fine that it is the only choice in nightmare challenges.

I guess it would be extra work to have locations in nightmare mode display exactly which challenge they are currently hosting. But, it would be a lot easier to add specific nightmare challenges to alerts, I think.

By the same token, it would be a lot easier to add very high level missions to the alerts instead of creating more locations.

Doing this would allow more people to experience the game's tougher challenges. It would also lead to a more informed debate in all things Warframe.

I think it would be good to have these two extra alerts every fifteen minutes.  If people like them, then they'll be upset that they are scarce.   So, I suggest, every fifteen minutes a nightmare challenge on alert and a level 125+, 150+, 175+, or 200+ mission on alert in addition to the current alert missions.  The rewards do not have to be BPs.  The purpose for my suggestion is to make tougher missions more available and buy DE time to expand the solar system.

Two more thoughts intertwined:

I'm not crazy for trading, or transmutation, or mod sharing.  It is a bunch of extra work that could have been avoided by just increasing drop rates.  And, increased drop rates are more fun.  I like to see tons of loot.  I like that piniata effect.  Also, the piniata effect makes Warframe unique among modern games, in my experience.  Now, Warframe is becoming just another game because people are suggesting then implementing ideas from other games.  It's killing Warframe in my mind.

Most games prefer Austerity.  I hate Austerity.  I want Excess.  To me, Nova at release(Nova without the stealth nerfs) is the epitome of Warframe.  Since update 8, Warframe has been headed towards Austerity, the industry standard.

Which segues into my next thought.

Not everybody wants Excess in their games.  So, DE needs a way to manage theses competing views because they both have significant followings.  Nightmare Mode functions very well as an Austerity Mode.  That's where the Stamina Nerf should have gone.  It boggles my mind that this was over looked.  Nightmare mode is where all the Nerfs should go.  It would be much more creative to do so, turn a Nerf into a game mode/challenge, than to just force a plain old Nerf onto the entire player base.

By the same token, there should be an Excess Mode, some place where players who never really liked stamina drain to begin with, can play without stamina drain, or extra ability radius or ... something.

Both modes should be able to go up to unlimited levels.

These two modes, as well as the normal game, will also have the benefit of producing real world data which can help guide DE, taking some of the guess work out of developing the game, and help prevent player base eruptions.

Edited October 8, 2013 by ThePresident777

[Mastikator2]

Part of the challenge of nightmare is that you don't get to know and prepare in advance. Not sure I agree with Excess mode either. The thing is that if mods are more easily acquired then you can more easily buff your weapons and frame and trivialize the nightmare mode. The game industry uses Austerity to combat power creep (which as you know, has a negative effect on the gameplay).

 

Though I would agree on more very high level alerts. Maybe not every 15 minutes. Maybe every 3 hours (but lasting 6 hours), the purpose of the alerts should be to only offer a challenge.

 

I'd also like a daily, weekly & monthly leaderboard for each survival and endless defense.

[ThePresident777]

Part of the challenge of nightmare is that you don't get to know and prepare in advance. Not sure I agree with Excess mode either. The thing is that if mods are more easily acquired then you can more easily buff your weapons and frame and trivialize the nightmare mode. The game industry uses Austerity to combat power creep (which as you know, has a negative effect on the gameplay).

Though I would agree on more very high level alerts. Maybe not every 15 minutes. Maybe every 3 hours (but lasting 6 hours), the purpose of the alerts should be to only offer a challenge.

I'd also like a daily, weekly & monthly leaderboard for each survival and endless defense.

1). Yes, part of the challenge of random challenges in nightmare mode is the difficulty in preparing for them. But, that is no reason for random challenge to be the only nightmare mode challenge. It is both fun and informative to be able to play specific nightmare mode challenges.

2). If mods can trivialize nightmare mode then it's only a matter of time before nightmare mode is trivialized. And, it's not fair to the people who do not have the mods. Mods should not be able to trivialize Nightmare Mode to begin with. So, the problem is not the mods or an Excess Mode. The problem is with Nightmare Mode.

3) Why should I have to wait 3 hours for an alert that I can complete in 30 minutes?

Edited October 8, 2013 by ThePresident777

[shadowkinz]

DE has said they purposely excluded a cover system to avoid being a generic shooter, but then ironically add no shield no energy...

Even still, it is just cheap difficulty and not challenging difficulty. No shields no energy is as stupid as no minimap was.

[ThePresident777]

DE has said they purposely excluded a cover system to avoid being a generic shooter, but then ironically add no shield no energy...

Even still, it is just cheap difficulty and not challenging difficulty. No shields no energy is as stupid as no minimap was.

 

I don't see what this has to do with the topic.

[ThePresident777]

Booyah!!!!!

[BadAimbot]

1: The issue is that whenever your shields are gone you die way too quickly. This doesn't just apply to Nightmare Mode, either. Health is too valuable a resource, and that needs to change.

 

2: Too much effort is put into trying to obtain one copy of a mod, instead of trying to level it up. This leads to massive power spikes whenever you obtain a new mod. This destroys any semblance of a power curve. Tying it to RNG is even worse.

 

3: DE needs to do whatever they think is good for the game. Doing nothing just makes everyone antsy, and feel gipped when they spend so much time hoping that DE goes their way and then, when they do make the decision because they have to, it's not what they wanted.

[ThePresident777]

1: The issue is that whenever your shields are gone you die way too quickly. This doesn't just apply to Nightmare Mode, either. Health is too valuable a resource, and that needs to change.

 

2: Too much effort is put into trying to obtain one copy of a mod, instead of trying to level it up. This leads to massive power spikes whenever you obtain a new mod. This destroys any semblance of a power curve. Tying it to RNG is even worse.

 

3: DE needs to do whatever they think is good for the game. Doing nothing just makes everyone antsy, and feel gipped when they spend so much time hoping that DE goes their way and then, when they do make the decision because they have to, it's not what they wanted.

 

1)  My first point is that the game has difficulty levels that are difficult to access.  And I make a suggestion for easily making them accessible.

 

2)  My second point was rather convoluted.  But, basically, it is that Warframe is losing it's uniqueness because DE is implementing ideas from other games, in some cases suggested by players.

 

3)  My third point is that DE needs a way to manage change and a split player base.  My suggestion for that is to increase the number and quality of Nightmare Modes.  Use Nightmare Mode to implement Austerity ideas such as Stamina Nerf.   And to have a complimentary mode to Nightmare Mode.  Call it what ever you want.  But, it would be a mode where you could have extra stamina, or extra speed, or whatever.  Both modes should have the full range of levels from lowest to highest.

 

 

Why is it that people can't seem to handle this topic?  Do I have to be abrasive?  Do I have to call for buffs or nerfs?  Do I have to pick a side in the latest forum war?  WTF?

[Dunkelheit]

The problem with Waframe is that there is no risk vs reward.

 

Going to the higher waves in Xini or Nightmare missions on Pluto should be properly rewarded. This is not the case, so people say this game is easy. It is, because you can overcome very content in this game very easily. There is hard stuff, but only to challenge yourself. Which is only fun for the first few times.

[ThePresident777]

The problem with Waframe is that there is no risk vs reward.

 

Going to the higher waves in Xini or Nightmare missions on Pluto should be properly rewarded. This is not the case, so people say this game is easy. It is, because you can overcome very content in this game very easily. There is hard stuff, but only to challenge yourself. Which is only fun for the first few times.

 

You say that it is possible to overcome every content easily then you say that there is hard stuff.  You can't have it both ways.

 

And, your point doesn't really address the topic.

[Sixty5]

I preferred nightmare at release, where it was an extra layer of interest, now in most of the time you are just punished for playing it.

 

I used to complain that the game was too easy, but at that point I was still hanging out in Kappa most of the time. Nowadays I'm happy with how it is. Sure I can Solo any boss without issue using nothing but a Glaive (To be fair Lephantitis took 2 hours, but the point stands), but if I'm using "normal" gear the game is challenging enough.

 

 

I'd prefer them to introduce a "Dark Sector" for the space outside Pluto, where missions cycle and you face things like level 120 Jackals as boss fights, and enemies gain extra powers, that would give me a use for my maxed gear. Hell give that section its own end-game drops.

[CaptainohCaptain]

Going to the higher waves in Xini 

Cut it off. We all know why Xini is favorite place for farm — because it's bloody hitting fish in the barrel even with bad equipment if you know how to use it.

[Dunkelheit]

You say that it is possible to overcome every content easily then you say that there is hard stuff.  You can't have it both ways.

 

And, your point doesn't really address the topic.

 

 

Wait what?

 

1. Risk vs Reward is a thought about the Warframe meta, like your posting introduced, hell, you are addressing it in your very own posting when speaking about Waframe being an easy game.

 

2. Of course there is hard stuff in Warframe, play defense missions till wave 1.000.000 (I exagerate to make my point) is most certainly hard. Yet, there is no need to go even to wave 20 in defense. So I can very well have it both ways.

 

 

So I contribute to your thread, even speak about concerns you yourself raised and you write like you did not understand your own topic and accuse me for being off-topic?? Way to go, man, way to go.

[ThePresident777]

Dunkelheit, on 09 Oct 2013 - 04:12 AM, said:

Wait what?

1. Risk vs Reward is a thought about the Warframe meta, like your posting introduced, hell, you are addressing it in your very own posting when speaking about Waframe being an easy game.

2. Of course there is hard stuff in Warframe, play defense missions till wave 1.000.000 (I exagerate to make my point) is most certainly hard. Yet, there is no need to go even to wave 20 in defense. So I can very well have it both ways.

So I contribute to your thread, even speak about concerns you yourself raised and you write like you did not understand your own topic and accuse me for being off-topic?? Way to go, man, way to go.

You claim that "the problem with Warframe that there is no risk vs reward." Nothing in my OP said anything about rewards. What I said is that if people want high risk, they have difficulty accessing it directly. To play high levels, you have to go through low levels. To play Nightmare mode challenges, you have to get lucky that the location you pick has the challenge you want when you want it. You can't just go to a location to play the nightmare mode challenge you want. You have to get lucky.

I said nothing about rewards at all.

Edited November 16, 2013 by ThePresident777

[ThePresident777]

I'd prefer them to introduce a "Dark Sector" for the space outside Pluto, where missions cycle and you face things like level 120 Jackals as boss fights, and enemies gain extra powers, that would give me a use for my maxed gear. Hell give that section its own end-game drops.

 

So, you are essentially agreeing with my point that players should be able to go straight to the difficulty that they want instead of having to play through easier waves to get to harder waves.