Make The Vacuum Precept Available To All Sentinels

[YourFriendlyNoggin]

I'm with OP on this one. Vaccuum should have been a universal sentinel precept like guardian, it's too useful to give up.

It makes survival missions and ammo consevation a breeze. It isn't like dethcubes vaporize or shades stealth, it is a utility that should be usable by all sentinels.

I find myself wanting to use the shade or dethcube instead of the floating testicle that is the carrier. But I find thw vaccuum to useful to gove up.

I would feel the same way if guardian was locked to a single sent

Then don't give up vacuum, keep using carrier, it's that simple. You can't just pick and choose abilities because you want them, I find wyrms cc too useful to give up, so I don't give it up by using wyrm even though he looks terrible.

You could argue that all sentinel abilities are too usefull and that we should be able to have stealth, cc, dps and drop magnetism all wrapped into one, because they are too usefull to give up. Why stop there? I want smokescreen, molecular prime, rhino stomp and chaos all on one frame because they are too usefull to give up!

Do you start to understand the point I'm bashing over the head of here? Vacuum is objectively usefull but too usefull to give up is purely subjective and subjective opinions influencing these decisions opens up the most putrid can of worms of 'why not do this if you will do that'.

[YourFriendlyNoggin]

Here I disagree again.

Stealthing, vaporize, fatal attraction and crowd dispersion are all combat utility.

Vaccuum is a general utility, as is guardian/regen/sanctuary.

I feel that vaccuum should be universal and carrier should receive a combat utility precept.

Had this mod never been tied to the carrier in the first place people would have no issue with vaccuum being universal which is the frustating thing.

Not to mention that the sweeper is the best sentinel weapon...

http://youtu.be/opyv8kbhpZQ

Seriously, you could say that about anything, also how is stealth combat utility? You can't enter combat and still be stealthed by shade.

[Bibliothekar]

@TunaMayo: And it didn't occur to you, that Carrier was not intended as a combat sentinel but as a utility sentinel?

 

We have three combat sentinels: Wyrm, Dethcube and Djinn. One stealth sentinel: Shade. And one utility sentinel: Carrier.

Just because they're all carrying weapons doesn't mean, that they're all designed primarily for fighting.

Edited October 9, 2013 by Bibliothekar

[xXBaelFireXx]

-1

 

No. That's so dumb. It's the special skill that makes Carrier special. Like DC with his insta kill pew pew, Shade's cloak, Wyrm's aoe boom, and Djinn's look at me. They all have their purposes and if Carrier's sucking is available to all then why get Carrier at all? Defeats the whole purpose IMO. So NOPE

[Jazz0411]

Except that both Vaporize and Ghost are utilities in themselves. By your logic, one sentinel's utility is better than the others' utility, so ALL of them should get it? Hell no.

 

If you want stealth, you play Shade. If you want an instagib, play Deathcube. If you want CC, play Wyrm. If you want to be lazy, play Carrier.

Its not lazy as much as overcomming lag at least for me as just running over stuff don't pick it up a lot of the time so having this mod a general mod for all sentinel's would help a large amount in lag mirgration.

As for an ability to replace it with and still give Carrier usefullness how about a Carry mod that will pick you up and "carry" you to where you are aimed at when you click the abilty making it posable to get to spots that before where only accessable to nova.

[Icebreccer]

They all have their purposes and if Carrier's sucking is available to all then why get Carrier at all? Defeats the whole purpose IMO. So NOPE

Because Carrier would get something different duh. It's not like replacing Vacuum with something else is that terrible or gamebreaking. It would be only logical to give Vacuum to all sentinels and make Carrier to do something else.

Why are you people so butthurt about this anyway? If they'd make such a change would it really affect your gameplay at all? You would still be using the sentinel you actually like and it would actually have one useful skill more.

This kind of change would NOT ruin the "uniqueness" of the sentinels in any way. You guys are just being naive.

[faesarn]

I'm sorry but I disagree. If we do so, Carrier will become useless :/

[YourFriendlyNoggin]

Because Carrier would get something different duh. It's not like replacing Vacuum with something else is that terrible or gamebreaking. It would be only logical to give Vacuum to all sentinels and make Carrier to do something else.Why are you people so butthurt about this anyway? If they'd make such a change would it really affect your gameplay at all? You would still be using the sentinel you actually like and it would actually have one useful skill more.This kind of change would NOT ruin the "uniqueness" of the sentinels in any way. You guys are just being naive.

Because the whole argument is circular and broken, if you argue that everyone should have vacuum and carrier should get something else then you let in the idea that anything deemed useful by a group of people should be available to everyone. It's the argument that can keep going forever, it extends into every part of the games features, until DE end up with a horrible mess of a forum, crying for their favourite abilities to available to anyone because vacuum was made free for all, because a few people on the forums apparently are unable to just equip carrier and be ok with that.

You are the naive one if you believe people wouldn't do that.

Even if you couldn't be bothered to read the above, think about this situation from outside of your point of view, if this was a discussion about a warframe ability, how much would it really effect your gameplay if a rhino could use link as well as iron skin, not much, so why complain? I mean all the rhinos get another usefull ability, trinity still has it but now rhinos have it too, no one loses right?

It's impossible to have a reasonable discussion with this argument because it applies to everything and once it's accepted as a valid argument you can't stop it.

[Icebreccer]

Fine, I will not. But Vacuum clearly is NOTHING like Iron Skin or any other skill that the Warframes have. This situation is more like having only Vauban with the mod "Thief's Wit". Vacuum is the same, it's not a REAL special for a sentinel, it's more like a general support to make sentinels matter more even if you don't want to make them offensive.

I'm just stating my opinion and say that Vacuum only for Carrier sucks. Not only would it be more convenient to have Vacuum on all sentinels, but it would ALSO give Carrier more potential with a better special move. I'm stating reasons why Vacuum would be great as a general sentinel mod, not just spouting nonsense like with the "Rhino Iron Skin" example.

[Kesella]

I did not vote for the item vacuum back when the poll was put forth for the DC mostly because I felt it too bland to have a sentinel devoted to it and I felt that it should of been added as a general sentinel power.  Unfortunately since Carrier has already been deployed I do not see this happening anytime soon if at all.

[NukaKV]

I did not vote for the item vacuum back when the poll was put forth for the DC mostly because I felt it too bland to have a sentinel devoted to it and I felt that it should of been added as a general sentinel power.  Unfortunately since Carrier has already been deployed I do not see this happening anytime soon if at all.

 

I agree 100%

[YourFriendlyNoggin]

Fine, I will not. But Vacuum clearly is NOTHING like Iron Skin or any other skill that the Warframes have. This situation is more like having only Vauban with the mod "Thief's Wit". Vacuum is the same, it's not a REAL special for a sentinel, it's more like a general support to make sentinels matter more even if you don't want to make them offensive.I'm just stating my opinion and say that Vacuum only for Carrier sucks. Not only would it be more convenient to have Vacuum on all sentinels, but it would ALSO give Carrier more potential with a better special move. I'm stating reasons why Vacuum would be great as a general sentinel mod, not just spouting nonsense like with the "Rhino Iron Skin" example.

How is it clearly different? Why does having good utility make it different? Why can't it be special and unique because it has good utility? Do the other sentinels actually need it?

Vacuum already is a good special move, the only thing saying it's any different is opinion, your gameplay is not damaged by not having vacuum, if you need it so much it's already on carrier.

It's your opinion that it's clearly different, but so far you haven't given one good reason why, only that it's different because it's clearly different.

*edit*

If my replies are frustrating it's because this discussion frustrated me because it's not constructive, it could go on forever, I don't think my opinion is better.

Edited October 9, 2013 by YourFriendlyNoggin

[Incunabulum]

I would much rather see 'group pickup', like we have for credits, for everything.

[crivers]

No, nothing would be unique about the carrier if this happens

[TunaMayo]

How is it clearly different? Why does having good utility make it different? Why can't it be special and unique because it has good utility? Do the other sentinels actually need it?

Vacuum already is a good special move, the only thing saying it's any different is opinion, your gameplay is not damaged by not having vacuum, if you need it so much it's already on carrier.

It's your opinion that it's clearly different, but so far you haven't given one good reason why, only that it's different because it's clearly different.

*edit*

If my replies are frustrating it's because this discussion frustrated me because it's not constructive, it could go on forever, I don't think my opinion is better.

I see it like this:

Vaccuum is a passive utility skill, like guardian or sanctuary, that could have (some would argue should have) been a universal sentinel mod.

Instead it became the main precept of the carrier.

It isn't the same as other main sentinel precepts that are combat based (shade stealth is only activated by nearby enemies). It is more of a constant passive utility.

You can't liken it to warframe powers. It's different.

It would be more like if a new warframe qas introduced where one of its powers was a passive handspring and the handsrping mod was removed from the game.

Yes, you could argue that this frame is all about survival and not damage, and making handspring back into a universal mod would render the frame useless and remove its unique gameplay.

BUT, a new power could be introduced, and handspeing could and should have always been a universal option for frames.

But arguing at this point is null and void as people are set in there ways and will complain one way or the other.

[Ferriwind]

Shade's invisibility is completely different it gives you an advantage and is more meant for stealth gameplay. Vacuum does nothing that would give you an "advantage" in a mission.

It also collects ammo.

[Bibliothekar]

It would be more like if a new warframe qas introduced where one of its powers was a passive handspring and the handsrping mod was removed from the game.

I can't remember Vacuum being in the game before Carrier was introduced. So your comparison is somewhat off ...