Steeldragonz Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 So just for clarity could we get an explanation for the 12 target limit [bladestorm] now in place, Sure he is melee character so having destructive range like Volt, Mag, Frost killing 20-50+ at once over a huge area is wrong. But allowing him limitless teleportation within a ranged area [that can be Mod upgraded] is the reason for the Mod system. What this has created is an Ultimate that isnt worth using is any situation as with or without duration mods Smokebomb for a similar power cost allows for a equal or greater kill count with shield regeneration, control over manuverability. If abritary limits are going to be placed on our skills especially Ultimates why should people strive to acquire mods and plan builds to plan to play the way they want to. I Would just like a statement on this design decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neKroMancer Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 I think Bladestrom fix is temporary. Problem appears when Ash start jumping around the map and increase the chance of glitching along the way. Killing 20 enemies in on cast usually doable only when Ash player is the host. If you join the game as Ash, it's not that effective. 12 is probably the maximum safest number of target viable in both hosting and joining condition. It's depend on ability's coding. Bladestrom's current state is definitely useable and I'm content with the change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cawkslapjones Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 You're invulnerable for the duration of the cast as well, and get ported back to your starting position. Even if the number of mobs that you can kill is reduced, you are far, far less likely to die yourself. No more toxic ancients taking the rest of your health while you're still jumping around and your team can't get to your body and rez it because it keeps teleporting to kills. Also, no more falling through the world when a mob was too close to a wall. I really don't view this as a nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Namacyst Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 I just imagine a situation where a Ash player trys to solo xini with old 4th skill. Around 50 infested rush the pod an he presses his 4th teleporting around killing one by one and during that time the pod goes down. Next thing he will do is come to the forums and complain "mimi why cant i cancel 4th skill" or "mimimi why teleport all time until all enemy dead but pod boom" or something like that. The decision to limit the targets for a skill like Ash's is a necessary step to prevent a situation like the above. Knowing the skill will cancel at some point even if there are still targets around makes it more predictable and easier to use..hell you can even plan to "just take out 12 and finish the rest with gun". Also the added invulnerability makes it kind of a oh-S#&$-button to save you when you got swarmed, hoping that the 12 enemys you killed are the ones surrounding you since you will end up where you started. Imo power range mods are not a wise choice for ash because it increases the possible choice of targets and in a way decreasing the usefullness of the skill. Ash is not supposed to be another Mag, Frost or Volt. His 4th skill is meant to kill a certain amount of enemys in a limted radius... that's why he has a teleport. Use it to move into a group of enemys and then use 4th skill. Just my thoughts, correct meself but that's how i see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twistank Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 In some other ash thread I mentioned the solution that might solve Bladestorm current problems. It was all about time based skill that would calculate number of targets depending on their distance from the "previous" target, where the first target in a row would be the one ash marks at the begining of the skill execution. So Ash would basicaly go on the rampage choosing targets with the least distance between them at skill execution timestamp, in given ammount of time, but one would have to carefully decide where to start the skill for optimal results. The speed of skill animation is known, time would be given as boostable attribute for bladestorm and that's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brontolith Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 (edited) If they can fix all the buggy teleporting through walls, stairs, and floors I'd like to see them turn it into a toggle skill. Press it once it calcs the targets in range and only goes after those mobs and any that run into range from far out don't get effected. Press a 2nd time and the skill stops so you can revive a buddy or just stop the teleporting around. Edit: Also put the taking damage back on it so if you do start taking toxic/gun fire you have a choice to stop the skill or try and get more kills and risk death. Why should his ult make you take 0 damage when everyone else bar trinity( who's ult says provides a very very short time of invunerability) take damage from sources outside their effect. Edited February 21, 2013 by Brontolith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
--Sensei-- Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 (edited) If they can fix all the buggy teleporting through walls, stairs, and floors I'd like to see them turn it into a toggle skill. Press it once it calcs the targets in range and only goes after those mobs and any that run into range from far out don't get effected. Press a 2nd time and the skill stops so you can revive a buddy or just stop the teleporting around. Edit: Also put the taking damage back on it so if you do start taking toxic/gun fire you have a choice to stop the skill or try and get more kills and risk death. Why should his ult make you take 0 damage when everyone else bar trinity( who's ult says provides a very very short time of invunerability) take damage from sources outside their effect. because their ults can clear entire rooms while ours can not and they don't need to teleport into an ancient's face to get killed because they can stand there far away and blow up the entire room with their ult while Ash has to get in melee range to hurt enemies risking himself MORE than the others, herp derp. So invul frames was needed and I'm glad they took my suggestion on ash invul frames. Edited February 21, 2013 by BushidoCode Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cawkslapjones Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Let's not forget that the Ash has an excellent escape that can double as a huge melee damage steroid. Those other frames don't have that, and they are all slower moving as well (except possibly the Volt, but I'm pretty sure it's slower... haven't played it in too long to say for sure.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burningsoul Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 One small thing about ash doing blade storm in a big group is you come out of it and there is that pause as you get your bearings again unfortunatly the games bad guys dont have the pause and if some are still alive they will be attacking you. I did a blade storm today and watched him teleport under the floor in new map. I got ash because I like stealth but I am not so a fan of the tools they gave him.I seldom bother with the star its useless on bosses and the guns I have do better job. Vanish is good as it ties in well with the stealth aspect. I would actually like teleport to be a targeted move where I can visual target where I want to teleport to and do it.This would make it a better tool. At the moment all we can do it teleport to a friend? Blade storm would be better if combined with vanishing cloud, the storm would only occure in the cloud. Increase the cloud dia some and then have only enemies in the cloud get killed. It would be more a stealth move as bad guys outside the cloud cant spot you . At the moment I find ash overall weaker than other frames I own Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kazen Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 keep mind the warframes your mentioned have casting times 3-4 seconds and instantly do damage. where as bladestorm takes up to 15 seconds to complete depending on available targets. they gave him invulnerability during bladestorm but the trade off is less targets. i wish they rework bladestorm completely but since DE think it's fine the way it is, i doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DetergentPod Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 (edited) I think an easier way to fix this is instead of having Ash teleport around. he just stand there and when he press 4 Blades appear and slice all enemies within a certain radius. This makes proper use of the name. Teleporting and slicing people isn't consider a blade storm, but rather a Rampage or Frenzy/Berserk. This would decrease bug since you won't be teleporting around. If anyone watch Bleach. A perfect example would be Byakuya's bankai or shikai. Instead of blades in the form of sakura petal it would be real swords that float and go straight for the enemy and slice them inhalf. Edited February 22, 2013 by ThePieBoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieTheGunner Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 I don't like being limited, why not make it as good as frosts? I don't mind it being a bit slow seeing as the trade off is invulnerable frames, being limited to only 12 mobs is something I can easily do by just spamming charge attacks seeing as I'm dual modded like crazy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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