Counter Heavy Caliber's Accuracy

[Orcot]

See, here's the thing. When you introduce a new mod with various effects you should test it with all weapons you can jam it in to. 

Agreed.

 

Honestly, they should have made this mod exclusive to certain weapons, similar to how there sniper, shotgun, rifle,glave, and bow mods, this issue could have been avoided if it was made to work with specific weapons.

[Takelon9]

Think of it as being given a Delorian, and you adore it because when described to you by TimeMachines'R'Us upon receiving it, it feels like it fits your needs perfectly (being able to hit 88MPH). You spend resources on this vehicle to make it look like a pimp's car with some tricked out suspension and a new turbo engine (to make it hit that 88MPH a little fast). You then take advantage of its time travel abilities to see your father before he died and apologize for being such a $&*^. But then the government passes a law that restricts Delorians' from going above 87MPH, because frankly, they don't want people going back in time and making millions. Do you then go to the chop-shop you got the turbo engine & tricked out suspension from and ask for a refund? No. Because it is not their fault that you took advantage of something and felt the need to make it suit you (Upgrading the mod).

Your analogy is not quite right.  Its more like if the government sold you the Delorian, then a few days later came out with the ban.  DE made and distributed a mod with set upsides and downsides.  People valued it accordingly and spent their hard earned fusion cores and credits on the mod based off these upsides/downsides.  Now, like with the government, there is nothing we can really do about the change, as ultimately DE has all say in the matter.  However, it definitely shakes a lot of people's faith in DE if they don't at least come to some middle ground, and with recent events I don't think they want that.  Every week a little more of my faith in DE fades.

 

With all this talk of being more open, and trying to listen to the players, I would have thought they would at least discuss the topic before such a sudden nerf.  They discuss nerfing weapons and frames for months some times, but they just overnight nerf a mod that some people put far more time and effort into.  I spent close to 900 fusion cores to max out my heavy cal.  Not to mention who knows how much credits (at least over a million). Of course people like me are going to be upset.  I wouldn't say I would never max rank it now, but I probably would have put more stock in Narrow Minded and Blind Rage, as now I feel they are better overall mods for my personal situation.

 

TL;DR  To just nerf a mod (or anything for that matter) suddenly, that people invested a lot of effort into getting and maxing, without discussion is always going to piss people off.  With how much DE has pissed people off lately, I feel it was handled poorly.  People now may have a mod they might not want maxed (for the moment or ever), and no way to counter the downside (which is the exact opposite of the extreme they were trying to rectify).

[TheSphynx]

Added another perspective in the original post discussing how the Heavy Caliber impacts ALL weapons in the game.

[Patzer]

I give up. In this thread: people who have not maxed nor tested new Heavy Caliber whine about how bad it is? what?

[General_Krull]

I give up. In this thread: people who have not maxed nor tested new Heavy Caliber whine about how bad it is? what?

Mine is rank 9 am I qualified to whine about it master?

[RejectionOfFate]

All I know is, it is fun to play as Ash with the Corrupted Efficiency mod.

 

Even if it kills Smokescreen.

How many Shuriken can I throw?

...More than enough

[SnowDrakE]

Not to be an outright $&*^, but almost all recoil-less weapons are already extremely overpowered. They needed to be balanced to prevent them from being ridiculously overpowered, you wanted more damage, well you're going to have to deal with some spread.

 

Think of it as being given a Delorian, and you adore it because when described to you by TimeMachines'R'Us upon receiving it, it feels like it fits your needs perfectly (being able to hit 88MPH). You spend resources on this vehicle to make it look like a pimp's car with some tricked out suspension and a new turbo engine (to make it hit that 88MPH a little fast). You then take advantage of its time travel abilities to see your father before he died and apologize for being such a $&*^. But then the government passes a law that restricts Delorians' from going above 87MPH, because frankly, they don't want people going back in time and making millions. Do you then go to the chop-shop you got the turbo engine & tricked out suspension from and ask for a refund? No. Because it is not their fault that you took advantage of something and felt the need to make it suit you (Upgrading the mod). 

 

TL;DR It was your decision to upgrade something that would be overpowered for no-recoil weapons, which would be an imminent nerf/fix. You could've left it as the normal stock mod but you took advantage of it. This is no-one's fault but yours.

 

(I HOPE TO @(*()$ GOD this makes sense makes sense, I'm way too tired to be thinking of scenarios.)

...this is beautiful...

[shut]

I like Heavy Caliber's concept, but one thing that I dislike about it is that it doesn't help Sniper-type weapons (bows, etc) in any way.

If a Rifle mod that tightened spread but reduced fire rate was made, my Miter and I would be very, very happy.

 

If they changed Vile Precision to reduce spread instead of recoil, that would be really nice. There aren't really any weapons that have unmanageable recoil at the moment that can't be fixed by Steady Hands. Even the Latron series.

Edited October 17, 2013 by SortaRandom

[Patzer]

Mine is rank 9 am I qualified to whine about it master?

 

Well? Whats the problem? Its very good mod unless you want to slap it on lolparis prime for some reason like some people.

[General_Krull]

Well? Whats the problem? Its very good mod unless you want to slap it on lolparis prime for some reason like some people.

I use it on ignis. It's ok. Also it's funny on Ogris. But people who ranked it up or maxed it and are disappointed should have the option to get cores and cash back.

[TheSphynx]

Well? Whats the problem? Its very good mod unless you want to slap it on lolparis prime for some reason like some people.

If you think that Paris Prime is the only weapon that exceedingly suffers by equipping this mod, you are incredibly uneducated on this topic. Please, take your ignorance elsewhere.

[SlyBoots]

Well? Whats the problem? Its very good mod unless you want to slap it on lolparis prime for some reason like some people.

 

ridiculous proposition indeed, outrageous even, they must be out of their minds, these some people - it's as if they lived in a parallel world where this mod increased recoil and was fine for bows and sniper rifles. unheard of!

[slappy330]

Not to be an outright $&*^, but almost all recoil-less weapons are already extremely overpowered. They needed to be balanced to prevent them from being ridiculously overpowered, you wanted more damage, well you're going to have to deal with some spread.

 

Think of it as being given a Delorian, and you adore it because when described to you by TimeMachines'R'Us upon receiving it, it feels like it fits your needs perfectly (being able to hit 88MPH). You spend resources on this vehicle to make it look like a pimp's car with some tricked out suspension and a new turbo engine (to make it hit that 88MPH a little fast). You then take advantage of its time travel abilities to see your father before he died and apologize for being such a $&*^. But then the government passes a law that restricts Delorians' from going above 87MPH, because frankly, they don't want people going back in time and making millions. Do you then go to the chop-shop you got the turbo engine & tricked out suspension from and ask for a refund? No. Because it is not their fault that you took advantage of something and felt the need to make it suit you (Upgrading the mod). 

 

TL;DR It was your decision to upgrade something that would be overpowered for no-recoil weapons, which would be an imminent nerf/fix. You could've left it as the normal stock mod but you took advantage of it. This is no-one's fault but yours.

 

(I HOPE TO @(*()$ GOD this makes sense makes sense, I'm way too tired to be thinking of scenarios.)

Give me a hug, this is how I feel about the people crying about the mods.

[SnowDrakE]

If you think that Paris Prime is the only weapon that exceedingly suffers by equipping this mod, you are incredibly uneducated on this topic. Please, take your ignorance elsewhere.

I, for one, am quite shocked to hear that there are mods that are not performing well on certain weapons. I feel just like back when I tried to put a full critical build on my beloved cubes Deth Machinegun...

 

...I almost jumped out of a window in blind rage.

 

Then I got better.

[General_Krull]

GUYSGUYS! I FOUND A PICTURE THAT ILLUSTRATES USING HEAVY CALIBER ON OGRIS!

 

 

(Spoilered for curses)

 

[TheSphynx]

GUYSGUYS! I FOUND A PICTURE THAT ILLUSTRATES USING HEAVY CALIBER ON OGRIS!

 

 

(Spoilered for curses)

 

Here, a little self-made one.

Edited October 17, 2013 by TheSphynx

[General_Krull]

Haha! funny thing I have rank 9 heavy caliber on ogris. -50% accuracy.

 

Ogris without mods has 100 accuracy. With my heavy caliber (-50% accuracy)  it is 1.9. What kind of math is used here? I thought 50% is half. Half from 100 is 50. Then why is Ogris' accuracy 1.9?

[WhisperByte]

Haha! funny thing I have rank 9 heavy caliber on ogris. -50% accuracy.

 

Ogris without mods has 100 accuracy. With my heavy caliber (-50% accuracy)  it is 1.9. What kind of math is used here? I thought 50% is half. Half from 100 is 50. Then why is Ogris' accuracy 1.9?

It might be one of the typical UI bugs. Or projectile weapons are affected in an unintended way. Afaik puncture affects projectile weapons in some stupid way so it might be the case here as well

[Vorigan]

They most likely tested the mod on weapons with recoil to see it's effect on them.   They probably thought it would be pointless to test it on a weapon with no recoil since the results wouldn't require testing to find, which means they didn't fully consider the effects of this mod.  It's a common mistake that can be easily made by anyone, though that doesn't change the fact that it should have been notice.

 

Yes, of course it is a great idea to release things as a developer that you haven't fully tested, or even THOUGHT about. Are you serious? This is their job.

It is like you go to the doctor and he just looks at you, you seem fine and he let's you go. Because, oh well, he didn't think you may be sick after all.

 

 

I give up. In this thread: people who have not maxed nor tested new Heavy Caliber whine about how bad it is? what?

 

And again, you are not one of those who read the full thread or even the OP. Don't even bother replying.

[CloudPies]

I'm waiting for mods with +accuracy to be honest. It follows the precedent set.

[Orcot]

Yes, of course it is a great idea to release things as a developer that you haven't fully tested, or even THOUGHT about. Are you serious? This is their job.

It is like you go to the doctor and he just looks at you, you seem fine and he let's you go. Because, oh well, he didn't think you may be sick after all.

 

 

 

And again, you are not one of those who read the full thread or even the OP. Don't even bother replying.

 

I never said it was a good idea, nor did I implicate it was, I simply stated what appeared to have happened, I did not support it, I even stated that this kind of thing shouldn't have happened, maybe you should consider what you read before you post, like DE, they should have considered the full impact of the mod before they released it.

[Vorigan]

I never said it was a good idea, nor did I implicate it was, I simply stated what appeared to have happened, I did not support it, I even stated that this kind of thing shouldn't have happened, maybe you should consider what you read before you post, like DE, they should have considered the full impact of the mod before they released it.

 

I wasn't the only one here to believe that was what you meant to say, so no, I wouldn't concider anything about the way I read.

 

In any way, let's not derail the thread, we are all aware why we shouldn't.

Edited October 18, 2013 by Vorigan

[Orcot]

I wasn't the only one here to believe that was what you meant to say, so no, I wouldn't concider anything about the way I read.

 

In any way, let's not derail the thread, we are all aware why we shouldn't.

 

You were the only one who mentioned my reply, but you are right, we shouldn't get off topic, because of the new accuracy stat added to the HC we need to have new mod made to counteract it's negative effects, have it's negative stat lowered to a more manageable level, or have weapons such as snipers and bows buffed in a way so they can use this mod.  That's my feedback on the issue, the mod currently doesn't support many weapons other than AOE types since accuracy isn't much of an issue for them, hopefully DE will make further changes to the Corrupt Mods to fix some of the unbalances they create with weapon/warframe builds.

[adenbrazza]

edit

Edited October 29, 2022 by adenbrazza

[Orcot]

Our weapons were strong enough before the Corrupted mods were introduced, this massive damage increase is unwarranted and the change from recoil to accuracy is completely justified. They're not 100% necessary in your weapon build and I think the decrease in accuracy is the only disadvantage which could put people off the increase in damage, which is a good thing.

 

As far as comparing the usefulness of this mod on different weapons goes; some weapons are more accurate than others, you should have always taken this factor in to account when choosing one.

 

It's a shame some people blew a lot of cores getting these mods to the max level, I personally have my Magnum Force 8/10 and now it makes my Acrid shoot three projectiles in a large Y shape, which I think is hilarious and I'll be continuing to use because the damage increase is so substantial I don't mind using it like a mid-range shotgun. S#&$ happens.

 

You can't complain about weapon balance and the change from recoil to accuracy at the same time, you need to find the right amount of damage to inaccuracy by yourself.

 

The mod change is justified, but the issue is that some weapons like bows are considered to be the most accurate of all weapons, yet with these mods they are worse than some of the most inaccurate weapons such as the Boltor, and another problem is that there isn't a way to counter the new stat, making certain weapons incompatible, which defeats the purpose of the new mods, they were clearly intended to open up new build ideas, but some of them just enforce one build beats all idea.