Krysis_V Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Not sure what anything here has to do with this topic but thanks for your opinion. If you refuse to Forma anything you level, it's possible you fear commitment. For the people that don't have a fear of commitment and spent MOST their hard-earned resources on an item to be later changed into something completely different, without a counterpart mod or option to refund, seems unjust. Actually, that is exactly the way it is recently. Sadly. I have a fair amount of Formas now but I didn't really use them recently. Why? The changes recently are radical; Strun Wraith, Soma and then Galatine. All those 3 broke the common pattern of the older weapons. Strun Wraith is exceptional because it was event exclusive. Soma is the first bullet based weapon to be able to take it to the end game and Galatine broke the traditional 200 charge damage barrier. Changes are occurring quickly my friend. Whether is this linked to the "End of founder" and soon to be released on PS4 is anyone's guess. But I do agree with some pointers you have made. I have only leveled my Heavy Caliber to 10 points because I somewhat knew it will be changed. Of course, that isn't a good answer to the problem. The problem here is that why DE did not consider the fact that there are numerous recoil-less weapon in the game. Why the rush to release it and why has the obvious slipped. To make matter worse, if it wasn't the way it was intended, why not hotfix it the next day or so to "minimize" the damage of the investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legionprobatio Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 lol you guys are acting like this isn't getting fixed as we speak. Heavy caliber was the first to be nerfed because there was absolutely NO negative effects for some weapons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brahmastra Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 They will probably release accuracy and recoil mods as a counter to heavy caliber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorigan Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 lol you guys are acting like this isn't getting fixed as we speak. Heavy caliber was the first to be nerfed because there was absolutely NO negative effects for some weapons If you had at least taken the time to read the OP and the thread he linked and not just the title, then you would have known that what you said is absolutely pointless in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legionprobatio Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 (edited) If you had at least taken the time to read the OP and the thread he linked and not just the title, then you would have known that what you said is absolutely pointless in this thread.By fixing I mean they're adding +accuracy mods, trying to balance the whole 25 energy for an ult and all thatBesides heavy caliber was broken then. Recoil-less weapons not having a negative effect? How would you NOT know that it was going to be changed? Edited October 17, 2013 by legionprobatio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSphynx Posted October 17, 2013 Author Share Posted October 17, 2013 By fixing I mean they're adding +accuracy mods, trying to balance the whole 25 energy for an ult and all that Do you have an official statement of this (Forum Post, Screen Shots, Link)? Just saying "they're adding +accuracy mods" without providing any additional information just starts a rumor. There are multiple threads discussing this issue. Not one have them have received a Red Post or a statement from any of the developers. For future reference, trying to degrade a thread with the quote above without any proof just makes you look like a troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorigan Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 By fixing I mean they're adding +accuracy mods, trying to balance the whole 25 energy for an ult and all that Besides heavy caliber was broken then. Recoil-less weapons not having a negative effect? How would you NOT know that it was going to be changed? So, how do you know it is being fixed? Because it sure seems like it isn't. And again, it's not us discussing how Heavy Cariber should be left as it was, re-read the thread. And HOW could we know it was going to be changed? The fact that DE don't test or think appropriately about the stuff that they release should automatically make us suspicious and sceptic to say the least? Or should we take for granted that all new things will get changed? Players saw an advantage in this mod and went ahead and spent so many credits and cores. Yes, it is a beta, but how could they know? Even the fact that the mod was about to get changes for the sake of these weapons was leaked from a private conversation and not clearly stated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorrTerek Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Besides heavy caliber was broken then. Recoil-less weapons not having a negative effect? How would you NOT know that it was going to be changed? Seems like this change hardly affects the Flux or the Ignis. And the Ogris has apparently been turned into a rocket shotgun. Should we then be expecting another change? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orcot Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 I agree, there should be an accuracy mod, and there most likely is one on the way. But I can't agree with you on the refund part, by your logic everyone who invested into Ember and Rhino should be refunded for the changes they made to them, a good number the changes made to them had no official "heads up", Ember's recent changes were only mentioned in the Livestreams until patch-day. I understand your upset with these changes, but you can't say it's that bad when compared to things like Ember and Iron Skin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General_Krull Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Seems like this change hardly affects the Flux or the Ignis. And the Ogris has apparently been turned into a rocket shotgun. Should we then be expecting another change? Rocket shotgun? Seriously? Time to rev up that forma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSphynx Posted October 17, 2013 Author Share Posted October 17, 2013 I agree, there should be an accuracy mod, and there most likely is one on the way. But I can't agree with you on the refund part, by your logic everyone who invested into Ember and Rhino should be refunded for the changes they made to them, a good number the changes made to them had no official "heads up", Ember's recent changes were only mentioned in the Livestreams until patch-day. I understand your upset with these changes, but you can't say it's that bad when compared to things like Ember and Iron Skin. You're kidding, right? Dumping 600+ hours worth of Fusion Cores and 1.5 million credits into a SINGLE mod and having that mod change without any heads up or counterpart doesn't entitle an option to refund? It isn't even comparable to a Warframe. Warframes are ALWAYS going through changes, they always have been. This is the first time to date that they have ever changed a mod in this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orcot Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 You're kidding, right? Dumping 600+ hours worth of Fusion Cores and 1.5 million credits into a SINGLE mod and having that mod change without any heads up or counterpart doesn't entitle an option to refund? It isn't even comparable to a Warframe. Warframes are ALWAYS going through changes, they always have been. This is the first time to date that they have ever changed a mod in this way. No, it isn't, Iron Skin is a mod, Overheat is a mod, Fireball is a mod, the mod you're arguing about is only different cause it goes to a gun, not a frame, this isn't the first time a mod was changed, weapon mods have also been changed before, no one complains about those cause they were all buffs. The point of your argument is that these mods were changed without warning and that it has never been done before, but it has just look at update 9. Just like Warframes, weapons and mods will go through changes, for better or worse, but that doesn't mean we should all be refunded every time our investment goes bust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doritodorito Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Skill spamming was considered such a big issue that DE actually came up with an Revamped Energy System prototype Eh? What's the source on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General_Krull Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 No, it isn't, Iron Skin is a mod, Overheat is a mod, Fireball is a mod, the mod you're arguing about is only different cause it goes to a gun, not a frame, this isn't the first time a mod was changed, weapon mods have also been changed before, no one complains about those cause they were all buffs. The point of your argument is that these mods were changed without warning and that it has never been done before, but it has just look at update 9. Just like Warframes, weapons and mods will go through changes, for better or worse, but that doesn't mean we should all be refunded every time our investment goes bust. You are arguing semantics. And Warframe skills are 3 ranks. This is 10 rank rare mod. You can max warframe ult skill with about 10 cores. You need roughly 1500 cores to max heavy caliber. It's not even remotely comparable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSphynx Posted October 17, 2013 Author Share Posted October 17, 2013 Eh? What's the source on this? https://www.dropbox.com/s/o9hqnbx1fphi0zh/Warframe%20-%20Energy%20Overhaul%20v0_2013_05_02.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhisperByte Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 https://www.dropbox.com/s/o9hqnbx1fphi0zh/Warframe%20-%20Energy%20Overhaul%20v0_2013_05_02.pdf Afaik this was a proposed solution to DE by a community member and not the DE themselves... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSphynx Posted October 17, 2013 Author Share Posted October 17, 2013 Afaik this was a proposed solution to DE by a community member and not the DE themselves... Strange, when I was first turned on to this, it was claimed to be work by DE. Whether it is or not, mostly everyone agrees the ability to spam skills has been drastically increased (for little-to-no cost on some frames). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orcot Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 You are arguing semantics. And Warframe skills are 3 ranks. This is 10 rank rare mod. You can max warframe ult skill with about 10 cores. You need roughly 1500 cores to max heavy caliber. It's not even remotely comparable. They are comparable, but you are right, they don't match in difficulty to level, yet that still doesn't entitle you to a refund, I understand that Sphynx put a lot of time and effort in to getting those cores and credits, but none of that ever entitled him to anything like this, he is asking for a refund for something so petty, while he ignores the full scope of the change, the mod change doesn't just effect him, but it also effects the outcome of Dueling, Conclave, Armor 2.0, and future enemy design. I'm not trying to devalue his time or his effort that he put in to the game, but there is nothing to argue about, this kind of situation was already covered under the Terms of Agreement, the best thing we can do is the same thing that lead to this nerf, and that's constructive feedback. The mod was changed because player feedback showed that this mod was too powerful, it reinforced a one loadout playstyle, which DE has been preparing new changes to prevent this kind of behavior, if a small change like this is enough to call for a refund, than what will everybody do when Armor 2.0 hits, what will be the demands when elements are dependent on your critical hit chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orcot Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Strange, when I was first turned on to this, it was claimed to be work by DE. Whether it is or not, mostly everyone agrees the ability to spam skills has been drastically increased (for little-to-no cost on some frames). Even though that isn't official, I like the idea a lot, the current energy system enforces a spam behavior, which reduces the value of utility skills and turns the game into a DPS races, hopefully DE will look into changing the current system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patzer Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 What about all the people that brought Heavy Caliber or Magnum Force to max rank? I have maxed it and tested after change. It's not that bad really, totally usable still. I'm ok with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeAura Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 That has already been established... But to change it without a counterpart, option of refund, or official notice is ridiculous. Also, what about Mag and Nova that throw on Fleeting Expertise and face no penalties? Your argument is invalid. They do face penalties though. Less null stars per cast/less bullet attractor time. It's just that no one values the drawbacks at a high cost. To someone who spams Bullet attractor on people Fleeting expertise isn't useful. To someone who spams...null star.....uhm, yeah okay maybe on Nova there is no drawback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tr1ples1xer Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 By fixing I mean they're adding +accuracy mods, trying to balance the whole 25 energy for an ult and all that Besides heavy caliber was broken then. Recoil-less weapons not having a negative effect? How would you NOT know that it was going to be changed? How did they not know that some of the weapons THEY created had 0% recoil in the first place... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bejuizb Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Um....you could counter accuracy by burst firing automatic weapons. As for sniper rifles and bows..... I don't have a clue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orcot Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 (edited) How did they not know that some of the weapons THEY created had 0% recoil in the first place... They most likely tested the mod on weapons with recoil to see it's effect on them. They probably thought it would be pointless to test it on a weapon with no recoil since the results wouldn't require testing to find, which means they didn't fully consider the effects of this mod. It's a common mistake that can be easily made by anyone, though that doesn't change the fact that it should have been notice. Edited October 17, 2013 by Orcot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General_Krull Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 They most likely tested the mod on weapons with recoil to see it's effect on them. It would be pointless to test it on a weapon with no recoil, so this means they didn't fully test/consider the effects of this mod. See, here's the thing. When you introduce a new mod with various effects you should test it with all weapons you can jam it in to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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