Master Chief Vs. Warframe

[N-14]

Im following this thread. This is Fun :)

[N-14]

FYI.

 

Type99 submachine gun where Soma is derived from fires 700 rpm. Close fight for a 1939 WW2 Weapon against a Space Ninja weapon eh?

 

1960 UNSC weapons vs 1939 Tenno weapons. Hmmmm. 

Edited December 8, 2013 by N-14

[Senteth]

RPM is an important consideration, but it's hardly the whole picture. If given a choice between a gun that can fire 10,000 spitballs per minute and a gun that can fire 30 tank rounds per minute, I know which one I'd pick.

 

Your basic Braton with a much lower fire rate and total damage than the Soma can easily blow a watermelon-sized hole through a thick layer of steel armor, through a torso, and then through another thick layer of steel armor, or casually de-limb armored combat cyborgs with metal legs/arms. With the right mods, you can even turn a 1-ton Grineer with his armor into tiny scraps of flash-frozen chunky salsa with a short burst of fire. Try finding any equivalent real-life infantry rifle that can do that. The Soma is an incredibly powerful rifle that blows anything in the UNSC arsenal short of a Spartan Laser out of the water.

 

In general, UNSC weapons have quite a bit of hard info and stats on them, and overall they're quite lackluster compared to modern gear. Compare that to the visual carnage and scattered bits of fluff we have for Warframe weapons. For an example, the standard Grakata, AKA one of the Grineer's crappiest guns which only tickles the average Tenno, fires ~15mm. rounds going by the size of its bore, with explosive ammo comprising 10% of its loadout. Here's what a real-life 15mm. round looks like. Bloody massive, isn't it?

 

The description of the Paris makes it clear that it's actually a freaking railgun in the deceptively low-tech shape of a bow.

 

An unmodded Miter can sawblade through over a full meter of solid metal and still have enough force left over to decapitate several heavily-armored combat cyborgs.

 

For another example a couple pages back, take the Boltor, which canonically sends enemies flying backward and pins them to walls. Assuming they knock back a 1-ton Grineer at the low speed of 30m/s, its rounds are imparting a minimum of 450 kilojoules of force on it, likely higher since 30m/s is a conservative low-end estimate and there's also question of how much additional energy is needed to pin them to walls with enough force to keep a 1-ton mass firmly in place. For perspective, a modern .50 BMG round imparts 15-18 kilojoules to its target, and is the kind of weapon you use against armored vehicles and light tanks. (amusingly, the Boltor and other Tenno weapons can indeed make extremely short work of tank-sized armored mining vehicles) Keep in mind that the Boltor is a distinctly mid-end weapon by Tenno standards, not some super murder machine like the Soma.

Edited December 8, 2013 by Senteth

[N-14]

RPM is an important consideration, but it's hardly the whole picture. If given a choice between a gun that can fire 10,000 spitballs per minute and a gun that can fire 30 tank rounds per minute, I know which one I'd pick.

 

Your basic Braton with a much lower fire rate and total damage than the Soma can easily blow a watermelon-sized hole through a thick layer of steel armor, through a torso, and then through another thick layer of steel armor, or casually de-limb armored combat cyborgs with metal legs/arms. With the right mods, you can even turn a 1-ton Grineer with his armor into tiny scraps of flash-frozen chunky salsa with a short burst of fire. Try finding any equivalent real-life infantry rifle that can do that. The Soma is an incredibly powerful rifle that blows anything in the UNSC arsenal short of a Spartan Laser out of the water.

 

In general, UNSC weapons have quite a bit of hard info and stats on them, and overall they're quite lackluster compared to modern gear. Compare that to the visual carnage and scattered bits of fluff we have for Warframe weapons. For an example, the standard Grakata, AKA one of the Grineer's crappiest guns which only tickles the average Tenno, fires ~15mm. rounds going by the size of its bore, with explosive ammo comprising 10% of its loadout. Here's what a real-life 15mm. round looks like. Bloody massive, isn't it?

 

The description of the Paris makes it clear that it's actually a freaking railgun in the deceptively low-tech shape of a bow.

 

An unmodded Miter can sawblade through over a full meter of solid metal and still have enough force left over to decapitate several heavily-armored combat cyborgs.

 

For another example a couple pages back, take the Boltor, which canonically sends enemies flying backward and pins them to walls. Assuming they knock back a 1-ton Grineer at the low speed of 30m/s, its rounds are imparting a minimum of 450 kilojoules of force on it, likely higher since 30m/s is a conservative low-end estimate and there's also question of how much additional energy is needed to pin them to walls with enough force to keep a 1-ton mass firmly in place. For perspective, a modern .50 BMG round imparts 15-18 kilojoules to its target, and is the kind of weapon you use against armored vehicles and light tanks. (amusingly, the Boltor and other Tenno weapons can indeed make extremely short work of tank-sized armored mining vehicles) Keep in mind that the Boltor is a distinctly mid-end weapon by Tenno standards, not some super murder machine like the Soma.

 

First. Please stop referring Kilojoules. It is often used Energy Consumption

http://www.heartfoundation.org.au/healthy-eating/mums-united/articles/Pages/kilojoule.aspx

 

Joule is an energy expanded by 1kg moved by 1 meter by a force of one newton. km/s

1 Kilojoule = 103 joules

 

Claiming Boltor can fire 450 kilojoules of force is absurd. 

Pfeifer Zeliska 28mm Revolver alone and .50 Browning MG can shot down heavily armored WW2 Bombers yet Boltor fails to knock a standard Infantry down.

 

I believe someone raised an odd question.

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/122090-master-chief-vs-warframe/?p=1674076

 

 

Second. 15mm calibers appeared during the late 1930s and used as Heavy Artillery (Heavy Infantry, Anti-Aircraft)

It's surprising on how much you mock Halo's Arsenal despite the Tenno's Arsenal are being surpassed by pre-WWI dated Arms. With the exception of Handheld Rocket Launchers used by Heavy Grineer Infantry. 

 

 

Third. Effects being portrayed post-mortem are highly irrelevant. We are both aware of how silly warframe is. 

I believe someone pointed out that it's a boy's wet dream dozen of pages back.

Edited December 9, 2013 by N-14

[TheNoobishNub]

Second. 15mm calibers appeared during the late 1930s and used as Heavy Artillery (Heavy Infantry, Anti-Aircraft)

It's surprising on how much you mock Halo's Arsenal despite the Tenno's Arsenal are being surpassed by pre-WWI dated Arms. With the exception of Handheld Rocket Launchers used by Heavy Grineer Infantry. 

Btw it is the Grineer who mainly use the 15mm calibers. Many tenno don't bother using the grakata. It falls in the catergory of one of the worse weapons.

[N-14]

Btw it is the Grineer who mainly use the 15mm calibers. Many tenno don't bother using the grakata. It falls in the catergory of one of the worse weapons.

 

Bolts or Quarrels (Given above statements) dates back to Pre-Medieval Europe and Asia and first appeared in Ancient Greece in which the Tenno fairly uses this advanced Weaponry to fire such an age old projectile.

[TheNoobishNub]

True that Tenno use bolts, but the amount of energy required to move a 1 ton cyborg is no small feat either.

 

 

And at the Master Chief nuke thing, does he actaully take a direct nuke? Does he stand in the epicenter or does he get ported away or stand at the edge?

[N-14]

True that Tenno use bolts, but the amount of energy required to move a 1 ton cyborg is no small feat either.

 

 

And at the Master Chief nuke thing, does he actaully take a direct nuke? Does he stand in the epicenter or does he get ported away or stand at the edge?

 

Nobody knows how MC survived that. Everyone assumes its a flaw, a tear on such fine silk. 

 

Can you provided basis on your statement? Dont you know how heavy a Ton is?

[Senteth]

First. Please stop referring Kilojoules. It is often used Energy Consumption

http://www.heartfoundation.org.au/healthy-eating/mums-united/articles/Pages/kilojoule.aspx

Actually, joules are the standard SI unit of energy, and the energy of a given round is often expressed in terms of joules, or in foot-pounds, which is the corresponding Imperial unit.

Joule is an energy expanded by 1kg moved by 1 meter by a force of one newton. km/s

1 Kilojoule = 103 joules

And with this statement you've officially lost all credibility with me. Kilo=thousand. One kilojoule=1,000 joules. What on earth is kilometers per second doing in your example? Syntax on the example is stilted too.

Claiming Boltor can fire 450 kilojoules of force is absurd.

Pfeifer Zeliska 28mm Revolver alone and .50 Browning MG can shot down heavily armored WW2 Bombers yet Boltor fails to knock a standard Infantry down.

450 kilojoules is the amount of energy needed to accelerate a 1-ton mass (which is roughly what your average Grineer has been calced to weigh) to 30 meters per second. (Twice the speed of a rushing Loki. Just a low-end estimate for now until I get around to seeing how fast they're actually thrown by the Boltor) And no, the Boltor does not knock 1-ton infantry down. It sends them flying bodily through the air and impales them against a wall so firmly that they don't budge. The official fluff we have for it even confirms this as an actual capability of the Boltor instead of just game mechanics. If you want to go to cutscenes, we have single shots from a Braton smacking around a 10-15 foot metal cyborg like a red-headed stepchild, or swings from melee weapons leaving 6-meter wide craters in metal floors and tossing around 4 tons of angry Grineer in the process. Warframe weapons be crazy yo.

I believe someone raised an odd question.

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/122090-master-chief-vs-warframe/?p=1674076

Really? Because that link doesn't seem to point to any sort of meaningful question that I can discern.

Second. 15mm calibers appeared during the late 1930s and used as Heavy Artillery (Heavy Infantry, Anti-Aircraft)

It's surprising on how much you mock Halo's Arsenal despite the Tenno's Arsenal are being surpassed by pre-WWI dated Arms. With the exception of Handheld Rocket Launchers used by Heavy Grineer Infantry.

Protip: think your statements through before posting. It'd be one thing if they were still using the exact same 1930's heavy artillery/AA rounds in the exact same role in the future. It's quite another to be handing similarly-sized rounds out to your grunts as standard weaksauce anti-infantry weapons. (Not even getting into little details like muzzle speed or the composition and design of the round itself, which also have a huge impact on the effectiveness of a round. Just like RPM, caliber is an important consideration, but not the whole picture. Take Mass Effect's weapons for instance, which essentially fire grains of sand at such high speed that they have the same kick as a normal bullet fired at more conventional velocities) The UNSC is completely enamored with the exact same 7.62×51mm NATO round developed in the 50's and uses it in its equivalent rifles, with pretty much the exact same muzzle velocity to boot. Not just a similarly-sized but more advanced round, or even the same round but fired at higher velocities. The Exact. Same. Thing. The UNSC's standard infantry weapons are frankly embarrassing for a far-future military.

Third. Effects being portrayed post-mortem are highly irrelevant. We are both aware of how silly warframe is.

I believe someone pointed out that it's a boy's wet dream dozen of pages back.

How exactly are they irrelevant? Unless you have a higher-ranking piece of canon info contradicting them, they're perfectly valid. Edited December 9, 2013 by Senteth

[Senteth]

Nobody knows how MC survived that. Everyone assumes its a flaw, a tear on such fine silk. 

 

Can you provided basis on your statement? Dont you know how heavy a Ton is?

Actually, the prevailing opinion I've heard is that Cortana either teleported him away or somehow shielded him with the hardlight bridge. The issue will probably be explained in greater detail once Halo 5 comes out, but it's safe to say that he didn't survive it through armor alone.

And yes, I know how heavy a ton is. It's not some figure I randomly pulled out of a hat. Here's the calculations that led me to that:

First off, let's look at the size of your average Grineer. With the exception of the Ballistas and Scorpions, all the Grineer tower over your Warframe by a good foot or more and are built like bricks. Heavy units are even larger. Using some online calculators, I estimated the surface area of the average unarmored Grineer to be around 26,000 cm^2. We know carbon steel makes up a good portion of their armor, if not all of it. We can also see its thickness thanks to the way our swords and guns are able to gut them like fish. Measuring is difficult, but I'd estimate a good 2 cm on average for the non-heavily armored parts. The density of steel varies somewhat, but 7.85 g/cm^3 is about average.

Plugging it all together, that gives us 408.2 kg. Add to it the weight of the Grineer itself (estimated from the average unarmored Spartan's weight) and that goes up to 523.2 kg. This is just the regular armor layer. As I'm sure we're all aware of, Grineer are ridiculously top-heavy, featuring massive pauldrons, hunchbacked armor, and bulging legs. Eyeballing it, it looks like they're carrying around the equivalent of two car engines on their shoulders, back and legs, increasing the weight by an additional 540 kg or so. Much of the Grineer's body has been replaced by machinery, but I won't speculate as to how much that has increased their mass. So far we're at roughly 1.063 tons for the average Grineer.

You underestimate just how heavy metal is for its volume, and just how much of it the average Grineer is hefting around with its bulk.

[N-14]

Actually, joules are the standard SI unit of energy, and the energy of a given round is often expressed in terms of joules, or in foot-pounds, which is the corresponding Imperial unit.

And with this statement you've officially lost all credibility with me. Kilo=thousand. One kilojoule=1,000 joules. What on earth is kilometers per second doing in your example? Syntax on the example is stilted too.

450 kilojoules is the amount of energy needed to accelerate a 1-ton mass (which is roughly what your average Grineer has been calced to weigh) to 30 meters per second. (Twice the speed of a rushing Loki. Just a low-end estimate for now until I get around to seeing how fast they're actually thrown by the Boltor) And no, the Boltor does not knock 1-ton infantry down. It sends them flying bodily through the air and impales them against a wall so firmly that they don't budge. The official fluff we have for it even confirms this as an actual capability of the Boltor instead of just game mechanics. If you want to go to cutscenes, we have single shots from a Braton smacking around a 10-15 foot metal cyborg like a red-headed stepchild, or swings from melee weapons leaving 6-meter wide craters in metal floors and tossing around 4 tons of angry Grineer in the process. Warframe weapons be crazy yo.

 

I might have digged on the Human Nutrition Article. My bad.

 

Nitro Express revolver

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pfeifer_Zeliska_.600_Nitro_Express_revolver

 

M2 Browning

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pfeifer_Zeliska_.600_Nitro_Express_revolver

 

Content provides the imminent realistic effects (of course, they are REAL guns) where Muzzle Velocities does not exceed on the ridiculous hypothetical 450 kilojoules whose recoil alone can probably send a Tenno back to his Dojo,

[skids06x]

wat is all about ? :3

[Magmahunter]

hmm... 'The Call' trailer...

[Senteth]

In regards to recoil, a common trope in sci-fi is to give ships inertial dampeners, handwaving away the effects of momentum on the crew so that the high-g maneuvers don't liquefy them. Somewhat less commonly seen but still common enough among high-end infantry weapons in sci-fi is to use the same inertial dampening technology in your infantry weapons to handwave away otherwise impossibly high recoil, such as in the Starsiege/Tribes universe, or the Honor Harrington series. (Well actually, in that example they don't so much negate the inertial effects of firing insanely fast projectiles as they don't produce any recoil in the first place, using the same inertialess drive tech they use to propel their starships to accelerate their ammo. You get my point though)

And that's not even getting into the weirdness that is Orokin tech. These are the guys who play interior decorator with the planets and moons of the solar system, towing them outside their normal orbits, terraforming Venus into a freaking ice world, giving Jupiter a breathable atmosphere, increasing the gravity of the tiny moon Phobos to the point that it can hold onto an atmosphere and prevent people from sailing away every time they jump, and more.

They meddle with technology that lets them perfectly duplicate a bullet as it's coming out of the gun, without consuming any more ammo. They can make flamethrowers that burn and freeze you at the same time. They make melee weapons that produce 6-meter craters in metal floors and have a passable imitation of pokeball technology they use when they want a target brought back alive. They've got healing technology that can cure mortal wounds in seconds. They've got nanotech poisons that can dissolve large robots into puddles of toxic sludge in seconds.

And let's not forget the actual magic they made use of thanks to the Void.

At this point, handwaving away recoil is hardly their most impossible feat. (There are even multiple sci-fi explanations that could account for it. There's inertial dampening as I already mentioned, or there's the Warhammer 40k route of using gyrojet ammunition that is fired at more reasonable speeds, but accelerates further as it flies through the air. Another possibility is that the bolts themselves are fired at lower speeds, but have some sort of integrated technobabble drive that allows them to still toss 1-ton cyborgs around like dolls, increasing its apparent mass or velocity, playing around with the targets mass or velocity, acting like a higher-tech variant of the gyrojet concept, etc)

[YBD215]

Master Chief would be losing then his Ultimate would activate... LUCK... All Tenno suits would malfunction allowing the Chief to to do what ever was needed... Either that or the Stalker would come in and start stabbing Tenno in the back because they were all focused on the Chief... Or Something would happen... Luck is just too strong with this guy

[Satsaru]

I don't think I've ever sat down and read a thread this long in one sitting.

 

Thanks, guys -this was a very interesting and entertaining one!  I usually just lurk...

[Damadarchius]

She sends you ALONE to assassinate a General, a Lieutenant, a Captain, a Councilor, an Infested who devoured an entire Scouting Party, the source of Infestation in the Void Storms, a Prototype that plagued the Tenno during the Sentient War, a Maniac who, thankfully, did not create a Tenno-Centipede.

 

Not Over the Top? 

 

What happens when we dont ask questions?

 

Darvo himself tricked us to assassinate the Stalker (who is now probably dead and had the attention of the rest of the Low Guardians)

 

 

Imagine an Armada of Stalkers. 

 

 

 

Btw, that's how MC will look like if we apply books to gameplay. Masterframe-Loki will cower. 

 

The Lotus gives us missions and guides us through them but we go to them on our will, instead of a linear campaign of being told where to go we have to freedom to go wherever it please us, she does warn us of difficult enemies and bosses but we are there of our own free will, she never sends us anywhere, not really. 

Another point on the matter is that even if we were totally controlled by her and sent wherever she wishes us to be, the point is that we still defeated/killed all these various bosses and enemies, alone is totally up to you, you can go solo or go online and other Tenno can join your squad, she never sends you alone, it's your own choice to go alone. The Tenno are capable enough to take them out on their own, I never said it would be easy, but they are capable, squadmates make that job easier.  

 

So you're saying that in the books Chief could jump that high, punch an elite across the length of that area and kick a warthog and a pelican that far, not to mention where he used a sniper that deflected perfectly off the Jackals' shields and getting headshots without the bullet even stopping or losing enough velocity to be stuck in the skull rather than make a clean exit? I understand that the Chief is stronger in the books and has the odds in his favour with the books but that animation takes it way over the top, even in the books (I haven't read them) I assume that he wouldn't run headlong into battle and would utilize cover whenever needed. Monty Oum's version could very well take out the Tenno, even a squad of them, but it isn't the real Chief. 

If that were the real Chief, then the UNSC have no real excuse for losing the war against the Covenant. :)

[Bearssi]

Master Chief would win, because he is just that lucky.

[N-14]

Warframe supporters against the known MC in a nutshell

 

[MagpieOAO]

Its pretty simple. While the MC is an exceptional spartan, he is still a spartan. As noted, the attribute he was selected for was not speed, strength or intelligence, it was luck.

 

Comparing to other spartans who have died from relatively modest mortal wounds, he can be killed with a single magazine from a relatively standard assault rifle, or a sniper shot to the dome, or a cut with a plasma blade.

Technology aside, Tenno can often require MULTIPLE SQUADS of enemies firing at them in unison to bring them down, and in a bad situation Tenno still have their incredible agility (Imagine if you could do all the wall running/flipping/etc without being limited by controls. Jump at any angle, grab any surface. Not limited by the finicky game limitations) to escape a bad situation.

 

Technology and weapon comparisons, void magicks and abilities aside, it's pretty obvious Tenno would win unless they were seriously undermined by outside elements.

[Snakeslicer]

It depends, In the cinematics, he:

-Resists vaporization from the librarian

-can drive anything perfectly,anytime,

-his pistol and assault rifle can suddenly take out phantoms with a single shot

-can spend 10 years frozen solid and instantly come to,

-and can wipe out an entire infestation on a planet.

 

In the game:

-he drowns

-he can't fall 30 feet

-dies by bullet to toe

-Assault rifle that was so good now shoots cotton candy-filled bouncy balls.

[Kefaljohn]

Warframe supporters against the known MC in a nutshell

 

The same could be said by any human being against a Super-hero/soldier/super powered character

 

 

Though if you mean that the argument magically went to MC's favour because you said so:

The last 20 something pages are enough proof as it is,let's let this zombie of a thread die already

 

PS:

-Resists vaporization from the librarian

-Plot armor or something to do with genetic material,nothing to do with tanking or dodging that

Edited December 21, 2013 by Kefaljohn

[N-14]

The same could be said by any human being against a Super-hero/soldier/super powered character

 

 

Though if you mean that the argument magically went to MC's favour because you said so:

The last 20 something pages are enough proof as it is,let's let this zombie of a thread die already

 

Though everything went to Master Chief's favor. The Tenno supporters resists to do so.

The Guy with the bow is representing the Tenno. Bullets cant penetrate them because they are ridiculously over-rated.  

[Satsaru]

You clearly haven't read much of this thread then.

 

The "tenno supporters" as you say didn't just ignore the arguments made, they made counter arguments and figured out a fair amount of discernible benchmarks for the warframes.  And this whole thing is moot when you throw in the abilities anyways.

 

Rhino can stomp so hard that he disrupts time and space.  Nova literally hurls around ANTIMATTER.  It doesn't matter how tough your armor is vs that, it's just gone.  Unless it's made of quasi-matter, but that's a different story and Master-cheif's armor is most definitely NOT quasi-matter.  Nekros can EJECT HIS SOUL.  Hell, Valkyr conjures up an impenetrable barrier powered by pure uncontrollable RAGE when she gets cranky enough. 

[JSTboi]

No. Look at the facts.

Master Chief can't survive even one rocket to the face.

Tenno can survive multiple rockets to the face.

How the hell is Master Chief going to defeat something that can take ROCKETS TO THE FACE? The Tenno have, if not the skill advantage, an overwhelming technological advantage over Master Chief.

There is NO WAY Master Chief could ever hope to defeat a Tenno...not even if he had an Overshield.

Gravity hammer the rocket away