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Some thoughts about Loki changes, opinion is always welcome!


DustyToast

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I'm a relatively new player, 4 months maybe. I'm MR14 now with 24 things in my foundry and more than 10 unranked frames because ranking up didn't really reward me with anything anymore HAHA. So I'm pretty well-versed on how the game works, especially with the council of a few veteran friends. 
My first frame was Loki, a frame other than Excalibur I mean, and honestly, I grew to love him. His play style fit my own so neatly and his abilities really saved me as a low level player. I've proudly called myself a Loki main.

But note I said "as a low level player". Loki unfortunately, in my opinion, has fallen from grace, or in some form similar to that. With his small health, armor, shield stat, he fairs well against low and mid level enemies, but just a little higher and surviving with Loki becomes quite difficult. His purpose of being a stealth frame easily overshadowed by Ivara, Limbo, and Wukong's cloud ability. So in this post, I seek to perhaps give an idea as to how a buff to Loki should happen.
Note: These changes will not aim to make Loki a damage dealer, that simply isn't what he is, just some changes to make him less outdated of sorts.

Let's start from the top, his passive.
Loki has the formidable ability to stay in one spot for x10 duration of a normal frame. One question, why? In what situation has anyone been so tempted to cling to a wall forever, definitely not in combat as a Loki, considering his squishy stature, and simply going invisible would do him fine in stealth.
Some ideas of a passive change:
1. When he dashes, or rolls, he gets an invulnerability period, even 1 second of it would be fine
2. Bonus damage when he's holding Daggers perhaps? 
3. Has a chance to be spotted/alerted by an enemy, but the enemy will ignore it

Next, his Decoy
Loki's 1, the ability to craft a paper distraction that lasts for a second depending on who you're up against. Decoy more or less useless, he doesn't have any amplified stats to keep him alive longer, has an augment that would kill both Loki and the Decoy faster, and just stands there.
Some change ideas:
1. Make Decoy invincible
2. Make Decoy amplify perhaps 2x or 3x Loki's health, seeing how squishy he is
3. Change Decoy entirely, make his 1 as Loki is now able to make multiple identical copies of himself (not some poor hologram), these copies will run around Loki, confusing enemies and distracting them
4. (An addition to idea 3): Instead of copies of Loki, the Decoys will shapeshift into the nearest enemy

Next, his Invisibility
Loki's 2 is a lifesaver, but there are a few things to be had with it. With Invisibility being his prime medium of survivability, it needs to be more accessible. 
1.  Reduce casting time, I doubt the God of Mischief would need much time to blend into his surroundings. Usually in higher level missions, his Invisibility casting takes long enough for the enemy to shoot him down in the middle of it
2. Let Loki cast his 2 whilst in movement, that way you can keep the casting time the same if you want to, while giving the player some time to get out of a pinch
3. His Augment for his 2 should be an integrated feature, meaning he just doesn't make sound with weapons while invisible.
4. Reduce Energy cost, though this one's a debatable one. Would be nice if his lifeline of sorts costed a tad bit less. 
5. Change Invisibility into a shapeshifting ability, he copies the nearest enemy, confusing the enemy, causing them to stop shooting
An Augment idea in relation with idea 3:
His new augment can be a healing one, while he's invisible, he takes the time to patch up his wounds while on the move, sort of like Saryn's Molt

Next, Switch Teleport
Loki's 3 is...well, it exists. It has its uses, can be handy at times, but for what its Augment would like it to be used for it, a bit loose.
1. Allow his 3 to switch between 2 modes, Ally Mode, Enemy Mode. In Ally Mode, Loki will only switch with the ally he's aiming at, and ignore all surrounding enemies. This is to make it easier to save allies, and Enemy Mode is exactly the same, but with enemies
2. Changing things up a bit, going off of idea 1: Have a Free Mode, where he doesn't require a body to switch with, he can just teleport there, though it costs more energy. I can see this one being debatable so feel free to disagree

Lastly, Loki's 4
Honestly, no gripes with 4, it's fine, though a friend did speak of an idea that I found pretty interesting, so I'll share it here
1. Loki's 4 now allows him to copy another ally entirely, shapeshifting to whoever he aims his ability at. Meaning if say, you're a Revenant, Loki can shapeshift to look just like you, as well as use your abilities. 

That concludes my ideas and thoughts on some Loki changes. I want to make it clear that these are not demands, these are ideas, free for you to disagree and agree with. I'd be delighted to know what you think of them, or any ideas of your own regarding my favorite trickster! 

Edit: I realize most of these are buffs without any negative trades, which is my bad, I'd also like to hear how you'd balance the ideas!

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1 hour ago, DustyToast said:

I'm a relatively new player, 4 months maybe. I'm MR14 now with 24 things in my foundry and more than 10 unranked frames because ranking up didn't really reward me with anything anymore HAHA. So I'm pretty well-versed on how the game works, especially with the council of a few veteran friends. 
My first frame was Loki, a frame other than Excalibur I mean, and honestly, I grew to love him. His play style fit my own so neatly and his abilities really saved me as a low level player. I've proudly called myself a Loki main.

But note I said "as a low level player". Loki unfortunately, in my opinion, has fallen from grace, or in some form similar to that. With his small health, armor, shield stat, he fairs well against low and mid level enemies, but just a little higher and surviving with Loki becomes quite difficult. His purpose of being a stealth frame easily overshadowed by Ivara, Limbo, and Wukong's cloud ability. So in this post, I seek to perhaps give an idea as to how a buff to Loki should happen.
Note: These changes will not aim to make Loki a damage dealer, that simply isn't what he is, just some changes to make him less outdated of sorts.

Let's start from the top, his passive.
Loki has the formidable ability to stay in one spot for x10 duration of a normal frame. One question, why? In what situation has anyone been so tempted to cling to a wall forever, definitely not in combat as a Loki, considering his squishy stature, and simply going invisible would do him fine in stealth.
Some ideas of a passive change:
1. When he dashes, or rolls, he gets an invulnerability period, even 1 second of it would be fine
2. Bonus damage when he's holding Daggers perhaps? 
3. Has a chance to be spotted/alerted by an enemy, but the enemy will ignore it

Next, his Decoy
Loki's 1, the ability to craft a paper distraction that lasts for a second depending on who you're up against. Decoy more or less useless, he doesn't have any amplified stats to keep him alive longer, has an augment that would kill both Loki and the Decoy faster, and just stands there.
Some change ideas:
1. Make Decoy invincible
2. Make Decoy amplify perhaps 2x or 3x Loki's health, seeing how squishy he is
3. Change Decoy entirely, make his 1 as Loki is now able to make multiple identical copies of himself (not some poor hologram), these copies will run around Loki, confusing enemies and distracting them
4. (An addition to idea 3): Instead of copies of Loki, the Decoys will shapeshift into the nearest enemy

Next, his Invisibility
Loki's 2 is a lifesaver, but there are a few things to be had with it. With Invisibility being his prime medium of survivability, it needs to be more accessible. 
1.  Reduce casting time, I doubt the God of Mischief would need much time to blend into his surroundings. Usually in higher level missions, his Invisibility casting takes long enough for the enemy to shoot him down in the middle of it
2. Let Loki cast his 2 whilst in movement, that way you can keep the casting time the same if you want to, while giving the player some time to get out of a pinch
3. His Augment for his 2 should be an integrated feature, meaning he just doesn't make sound with weapons while invisible.
4. Reduce Energy cost, though this one's a debatable one. Would be nice if his lifeline of sorts costed a tad bit less. 
5. Change Invisibility into a shapeshifting ability, he copies the nearest enemy, confusing the enemy, causing them to stop shooting
An Augment idea in relation with idea 3:
His new augment can be a healing one, while he's invisible, he takes the time to patch up his wounds while on the move, sort of like Saryn's Molt

Next, Switch Teleport
Loki's 3 is...well, it exists. It has its uses, can be handy at times, but for what its Augment would like it to be used for it, a bit loose.
1. Allow his 3 to switch between 2 modes, Ally Mode, Enemy Mode. In Ally Mode, Loki will only switch with the ally he's aiming at, and ignore all surrounding enemies. This is to make it easier to save allies, and Enemy Mode is exactly the same, but with enemies
2. Changing things up a bit, going off of idea 1: Have a Free Mode, where he doesn't require a body to switch with, he can just teleport there, though it costs more energy. I can see this one being debatable so feel free to disagree

Lastly, Loki's 4
Honestly, no gripes with 4, it's fine, though a friend did speak of an idea that I found pretty interesting, so I'll share it here
1. Loki's 4 now allows him to copy another ally entirely, shapeshifting to whoever he aims his ability at. Meaning if say, you're a Revenant, Loki can shapeshift to look just like you, as well as use your abilities. 

That concludes my ideas and thoughts on some Loki changes. I want to make it clear that these are not demands, these are ideas, free for you to disagree and agree with. I'd be delighted to know what you think of them, or any ideas of your own regarding my favorite trickster! 

Definitely some interesting ideas.

The only flaw i see though is that its full of additions and no subtractions. Regardless of preference, Loki is still the top Stealth frame, which has several uses ingame. The numbers just add up. And this is coming from someone who's playstyle usually fits Ivara more. Loki is definitely the top Stealth frame. But you don't Get without Giving. If, for example, you mentioned wanting to be able to activate Invisibility while moving? Thats fine as long as the power now costs more energy, or lasts less time. Give and Take. Loki wasn't built to be a frame that stands around taking dmg, he's a manipulator. Strikes at you sideways, not a frontal assault. You may be having issues surviving because you may be playing him incorrectly. I cant say thats true however.

Realistically each point above needs a subtraction added to them. Loki gets X but loses Y or Z. Otherwise he's fine as is imo.

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1 hour ago, (PS4)MYKK678 said:

Definitely some interesting ideas.

The only flaw i see though is that its full of additions and no subtractions. Regardless of preference, Loki is still the top Stealth frame, which has several uses ingame. The numbers just add up. And this is coming from someone who's playstyle usually fits Ivara more. Loki is definitely the top Stealth frame. But you don't Get without Giving. If, for example, you mentioned wanting to be able to activate Invisibility while moving? Thats fine as long as the power now costs more energy, or lasts less time. Give and Take. Loki wasn't built to be a frame that stands around taking dmg, he's a manipulator. Strikes at you sideways, not a frontal assault. You may be having issues surviving because you may be playing him incorrectly. I cant say thats true however.

Realistically each point above needs a subtraction added to them. Loki gets X but loses Y or Z. Otherwise he's fine as is imo.

I haven't had much issue staying alive as Loki, he just happens to require more effort to keep alive HAHA, but valid point, in the light of trying to bolster him, I've definitely forgotten abt that. Though my ideas mostly came from the need of Loki to move out of danger, I didn't intend to make him a frontal attack sort of frame

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9 minutes ago, DustyToast said:

I haven't had much issue staying alive as Loki, he just happens to require more effort to keep alive HAHA, but valid point, in the light of trying to bolster him, I've definitely forgotten abt that. Though my ideas mostly came from the need of Loki to move out of danger, I didn't intend to make him a frontal attack sort of frame

Not trying to nitpick your posts here its just your original post stated you found it "quite difficult" to survive as Loki in higher content. Hes basically a frame that sticks to the walls and shadows while all the others run down the middle of a hallway eating bullets. Hes the "blade in the grass" essentially, the hidden ninja, which is why his stats reflect it too. Its true that sometimes he can be 1-shot by a random grenade or random attack but thats all part of learning how to use him. With Loki its about picking the right moment to attack rather than rushing in. Or distracting enemies with a decoy to slip by. Its why in a game where 95% of it is built around Speed-Killing, Loki is an outlier.

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