Lex

[Depesh]

Hi there. ill get right to the point.

This gun is not worth buying !

It is the most expensive gun there is with, supposedly "high" damage, medium ammo capacity and slow fiering rate. Well let's take a look :

Medium ammo capacity - check.

Slow fiering rate - check

High damage - NOT check

Even lvled the damage is low and even more, it is too "random" doing 14-16 damage when shooting Grenier in his torso, doing 60 - 100+ when shot in head ( i won't mention crits).

If you are not a hotshot who can do 100% headshots you will have some real problems.

Well maybe i need some super Mods to make it sufficient , that's possible.

It states that Lex has 100 accuracy, as in "always hit never miss", the thing is, IT is not. The gun jumps around with every shot and it misses randomly, even when shot point blank.

tl;dr Lex is inferier to preety much all pistols but it is the most expensive one. ( and it seems too random and buggy)

If someone can test that gun somemore and give additional feedback i would be greatful, maybe someone with really good Mods can shine some light on this matter as well. But to me it seems that this gun needs work ... and i mean a Lot of work.

Edited January 1, 2013 by Depesh

[Feindfeuer]

I actually prefer the Lex over most other Handguns i have tested, though i hate the slow fire-rate (i think the extreme recoil keeps dps in check enough), the damage is awesome if you can get headshots on a regular basis. Most other handguns are only good for hammering away center mass or are useless at long range while the Lex is pretty much a sub-compact sniper rifle.

Sure, as long as i still have ammo for my primary (or don't have to drag some nav-info around) i will not use it... but that is true for pretty much all pistols as the rifles/shotguns are just plain superior to any of the pistol variants.

I have to agree that it's worthless if you end up in a game with bad connectivity, because the weapon realy relies on good hit consistency to make it work. But in low-lag or solo games, it's awesome.

Edit:

I use it mainly in combination with shotgun/melee to give me some much needed long range capabilities and it's well worth the investment for me. Especially since the ingame money is accumulated so fast.

Edited January 1, 2013 by Feindfeuer

[Kunieda]

Follow the crowd get a bronco and don't worry about it ;)

[Ced23Ric]

Most other handguns are only good for hammering away center mass or are useless at long range while the Lex is pretty much a sub-compact sniper rifle.

Akimbo Latos would like to have a word with you. That's a fast-firing, longrange, high-damage killing machine with a large clip (56 on mine, right meow), that simply kills in droves.

[Feindfeuer]

Haven't tried any of the akimbo guns yet, as i doubt i can use them to full effect when having only one free hand,... which is one of the few situations where i use handguns at all. Might them later though, as i don't know what i should spend all the money on anyway.

[Ronyn]

Akimbo Latos would like to have a word with you. That's a fast-firing, longrange, high-damage killing machine with a large clip (56 on mine, right meow), that simply kills in droves.

They rock!

Haven't tried any of the akimbo guns yet, as i doubt i can use them to full effect when having only one free hand,... which is one of the few situations where i use handguns at all. Might them later though, as i don't know what i should spend all the money on anyway.

And this is where they falter....

I grabed aklato asap and enjoyed them from day one.

The whole reason i even started looking for another sidearm is because when carrying a case you feel very nerfed.

Still cant quite decide between the other sidearms though.

[MJ12]

Hi there. ill get right to the point.

This gun is not worth buying !

It is the most expensive gun there is with, supposedly "high" damage, medium ammo capacity and slow fiering rate. Well let's take a look :

Medium ammo capacity - check.

Slow fiering rate - check

High damage - NOT check

Even lvled the damage is low and even more, it is too "random" doing 14-16 damage when shooting Grenier in his torso, doing 60 - 100+ when shot in head ( i won't mention crits).

If you are not a hotshot who can do 100% headshots you will have some real problems.

Well maybe i need some super Mods to make it sufficient , that's possible.

It states that Lex has 100 accuracy, as in "always hit never miss", the thing is, IT is not. The gun jumps around with every shot and it misses randomly, even when shot point blank.

tl;dr Lex is inferier to preety much all pistols but it is the most expensive one. ( and it seems too random and buggy)

If someone can test that gun somemore and give additional feedback i would be greatful, maybe someone with really good Mods can shine some light on this matter as well. But to me it seems that this gun needs work ... and i mean a Lot of work.

I use the Lex all the time. If you're not aiming with it, obviously it's going to be awful. It's a precision weapon. You can't take your other pistol habits and transplant them unchanged because of its low fire rate and magazine size. However, with its 45.0 damage it can instantly kill a lot of things with one headshot, which means if you aim it you'll hammer the enemy pretty hard. As a bonus, because of its extreme ammunition efficiency you'll probably never run out of ammo. The problems with accuracy you mentioned I made a thread about and DESteve said he was planning to fix that.

Would I mind if it had, say, double the fire rate? Not at all. But it's usable now. Just not quite 35,000 credits worth of usable.

Obvious solution for all problems: Akimbo weapon variants of all guns.

Akbolto. Akbronco. Aklex.

Edited January 1, 2013 by MJ12

[Sealgaire]

They rock!

And this is where they falter....

I grabed aklato asap and enjoyed them from day one.

The whole reason i even started looking for another sidearm is because when carrying a case you feel very nerfed.

Still cant quite decide between the other sidearms though.

Pretty sure the Aklato work the same even when used oned handed for the reason you stated. Punishing someone for choosing akimbo pistols when they have to carry a case would be silly.

[Depesh]

Thank you for your replies.

But some points were still not answered.

As stated " You can one shot someone with a headshot" - Well yea you can, the problem is, sometimes i can oneshot someone other times it takes 2 to 3 direct headshots (i don't have lags and spikes).

The Randomenes of this gun is what confuses me.

The problem of not hitting targets pointblank ( due to recoil or some other problem).

And the Price !

Those are the key problems of this gun.

P.S I can snipe with Aklato with no problems and as long as we are talking about sniping... even sniper rifle is faster than Lex .

[Ced23Ric]

as i doubt i can use them to full effect when having only one free hand,... which is one of the few situations where i use handguns at all.

Doubt begets heresy.

The whole reason i even started looking for another sidearm is because when carrying a case you feel very nerfed.

nerfed? By ... what? The same clip-size, damage, fire-rate as if you would be dual-wielding?

Carry a case is just a model displayed with an animation. Wielding two pistols is just two models with an animation. Firing two guns is just an animation with light effects and hitbox connection events, resulting in math. You don't really wield two pistols. It's "if item a is equipped, use firing profile b, modified by element c, d, e, f for where c, d, e, f are not null."

You could hold a gas can and a pencil in either hand, if the devs wished it, and you would still shoot with the Akimbo Lato's profile.

In essence: No, Akimbo Latos do not receive any form of penalty for carrying a case. The firing profile does not change.

[Depesh]

Doubt begets heresy.

nerfed? By ... what? The same clip-size, damage, fire-rate as if you would be dual-wielding?

Carry a case is just a model displayed with an animation. Wielding two pistols is just two models with an animation. Firing two guns is just an animation with light effects and hitbox connection events, resulting in math. You don't really wield two pistols. It's "if item a is equipped, use firing profile b, modified by element c, d, e, f for where c, d, e, f are not null."

You could hold a gas can and a pencil in either hand, if the devs wished it, and you would still shoot with the Akimbo Lato's profile.

In essence: No, Akimbo Latos do not receive any form of penalty for carrying a case. The firing profile does not change.

Without knowing the specifics of coding you can't be sure. It might as well be something like

if(holding a case) {

fire rate / 2 ;

}

Tho with Aklato it is not like that. Even with a case in one arm you can shoot as fast as you press the trigger (shooting speed is not halfed).

[Ced23Ric]

Without knowing the specifics of coding you can't be sure. It might as well be something like

if(holding a case) {

fire rate / 2 ;

}

Tho with Aklato it is not like that. Even with a case in one arm you can shoot as fast as you press the trigger (shooting speed is not halfed).

"Might be" does not correlate with "is". One thing is guesswork, however educated, the other things is proveable fact. There is no halving of firerate, clipsize or damage occuring whatsoever. I have used the Lato, Sicarus, Akimbo Lato and Furis, tried the Lex for a few rounds but disliked it greatly due to a severe lack in DPS. I'll end up taking it up again as I run out of weapons to level, yet, there is no indication that carrying a case has any effects on the performance of the pistol of choice.

And to reiterate my previous statement:

There is no mandatory connection between a displayed model/animation and an assigned profile. For all we care, the model of the Tenno could be juggling flaming chainsaws and still have bullets fly and do damage, without a single shot heard, without any pistols displayed. Animations and models are only connected in our human conception of such correlations.

[Depesh]

Only thing you can say for sure is that there is no change in numbers, it doesn't mean that there is no "nerf" when holding a Case (often in games there are hidden passives, there can also be a hidden status when holding a case : bigger splash radius for example). (i was certain that there is no difference in swords because there is no info when you try to change then in your inventory simply because it is not added, same thing could be said about numbers when holding a case : The changes are just not added)

All i said is that you can't go around stating game mechanics without knowing them for certain.

And for your information. If Devs wished they could make specific parts of Teeno model be a "hitbox", or to be precise making the model be the starting point for bullet model, thus making "ball jugeling Teeno" unable to properly shoot a gun.

Don't get me wrong, i am not saying that you are wrong ( you are most likely right about a default profile [Male and female most likely] ).

But stating something without having an official source of information is wrong in my honest opinion.

Edited January 2, 2013 by Depesh

[Ced23Ric]

Well.

I look at and dissect engines from the player's perspective as a hobby, be they video game engines or boardgames, cardgames, you name it. A video game engine is usually a lot easier to analyze because it has to adhere to certain principles - modular programming, repeating procedures/patterns, a set amount of variables, a lack of real-world randomness/physics, to name a few.

We have a handful of values to look at. Two, that we get a distinct readout for, are damage and clipsize. The other values are firerate, accuracy, reload time and spread. We can measure reload time. Firerate, we could capture the sound, goldwave and extrapolate. The last value that we have a hard time determining is accuracy. Accuracy could be analyzed from captured footage and spread is correlated between recoil and accuracy, which could also be visibly analyzed. The problem with that is, displayed traces of bullets are just light effects, without any application to the hit-scan weaponry used in the game.

So, we look at what we can determine for sure.

Damage between Lato/Lato and Lato/Case are equal. Mods apply correctly.

Clipsize between Lato/Lato and Lato/Case are equal. Mods apply correctly.

Now, let's look at what we can determine close to sure.

Firerate between Lato/Lato and Lato/Case are equal. Mods apply correctly.

Reload time between Lato/Lato and Lato/Case are equal. Mods apply correctly.

The last thing is what we can guesstimate, as good as our ability and the game rendering allows to.

Accuracy between Lato/Lato and Lato/Case are equal. Mods apply correctly.

Spread between Lato/Lato and Lato/Case are equal. Mods apply correctly.

Taking these 6 values into account, it is a safe bet to assume that carrying a case or not does not affect the firing profile of the sidearm. I may not be an official source of the information, nor do I see the code, but I do see the effects, from which I can reverse-engineer the pseudocode and it's variables, which are ultimately deciding the behaviour of bespoke firing profile. My statement is not wrong, and making this statement isn't wrong, either. It is based on two things I can prove without room for dispute, two things I can prove without anything but a sliver of doubt and two things that are harder to tell, but strikingly similar.

If it quacks like a duck, smells like a duck and tastes like Beijing Duck with Eight Precious Vegetables when cooked and covered in spicy sauce, it is more than likely a duck, is what I am saying here. The chances that we are looking at a pig in disguise are slim, to take the analogy further.

___

On the whole model thing: Nope. Completely unrelated. The model and animation has nothing to do with the spawning point of the light effects, or the hitscan application of damage. Your Tenno could breakdance, and muzzle flashes could pop out of his feet, while there are tracers flying from the target to you (so, reverse) instead, and it would still be the same firing profile.

on mouse1.click, check if ammo > 0, check if timer.lastshotfired > time.firerate, do ammo -1, hitscan-check, crit-check, apply damage to target (range determined by mods and base and level).

Models, animations, light effects, sounds, etc. are completely unrelated. They are spawned and activated in the process of clicking the mouse, but entirely unnecessary for the actual firing profile to work. None of these elements exist. They have no connection other then being spawned from the same event (on mouse1.click), and are all independant from each other.

[Depesh]

As i said "You are most likely right in this situation" because the facts are overwhelming, but even so you can't make a 100% statement.

Damage , Fire rate, Accuracy , Clip Size, Reload , Spread - those are basic stats shown to player. Without Testing it from the bottom to the top Black Box testing doesn't give you 100%. For all i know while having case/Lato there is a difference in crit multiplication. Or another stat that in theory shouldn't even be considered when talking about fiering (jumping running walking).

I fully understand your point of view (i don't have expirience working with difficult engins) but i am a programmer and i do know basic principals. From a coders point of view i agree with you for 100% but from a testers point of view (I work as a black box tester) i think your statements are overly confident.

And about models : liek i said "If Devs wanted to" it is an extremely bad idea to make something like :

shooting(gun_type){

projectile_starting_position.location == teeno_armmodel.length+pistol.length+1

}

So if his hands will be constantly moving without control the aiming will be preety much impossible.

I am more of a Object oriented languages type of guy so i can't say anything from C or C++ perspective.

I just said that it is possible ( though extremely stupid and non practical).

to end this conversation on my part : In current situation your statements are Right , but overall you can't be sure without knowing the code or performing all the tests.

Cheers, was a pleasure ! ( preety sure we will continue somewhere else)

Edited January 2, 2013 by Depesh

[Feindfeuer]

Well, i just assumed that the Devs would code in a switch to another set of stats if you're only holding one gun. Nice to know that this is not the case, so i can go with the akimbo weapons as a straight upgrade over the single-handed versions.

Only question remaining, and one that only a Dev can answer, if this is how dual handguns are supposed to work in the final version or if this is just a beta placeholder mechanic that might be changed in the future. As this would make non-dual weapons pretty much obsolete and dual weapons a straight upgrade in any situation.

[Ronyn]

All I know is that the aklato seemed to take longer to kill a target when holding a case in the other hand.

Could be my imagination.

Either way its possible that the devs could have built the pistols to be effected by something else in the off hand.

whether or not it was wise or which was easier wit the coding is not the question here.

Whether or not the animations have to match effects is not the question because it was up to the people who made it to decie whether or not the effects change under different circumstances.

The only real question is whether they did or did not.

I really dont know...