Warframe's Artificial Difficulty - Why It Is A Major Problem, And Potential Solutions

[Madotsuki]

Yes

Yes

Yes

Oh god no

Yes

Yes

Hell yes

 

Damn good ideas! (even though I hate invisible enemies)

 

An enemy type like the skeletons from SMB could be good as well. An enemy that unless killed by excess damage / damage to a specific bodypart / killed again while on the floor, fully regenerates and continues to fight.

Not if the cloak/invis is done WELL. The problem with cloaking enemies in Warframe right now is that they are PERFECTLY invisible, and CANNOT BE DAMAGED (unless you're meleeing for some reason) while cloaked. A much better example of cloaking enemies would be things like the Stalkers (Killing Floor) or Hyperior Infiltrators (Borderlands 2). Both can cloak, but still maintain a flickering silhouette, meaning you can still locate and shoot them if you have a keen eye. You have no idea how satisfying it is to catch a glimpse of a Stalker's flicker and blast her just before she can sneak up on a teammate.

 

A concept of cloaking enemies in Warframe done well:

 

The Corpus Marksman (re-vamped Sniper): An advanced unit, they can use cloaking technology and snipe from afar. They maintain a slight silhouette even while cloaked, and can be shot as well as shoot while cloaked. Since they use the Lanka, their shots are projectiles and CAN be traced back to the Marksman's location given that you see the shot, and they don't switch locations unless damaged. When they fire, their cloak flickers. When they are hit, their cloak is temporarily disabled. If they are far enough from the player when damaged, they attempt to run to a new vantage point and cloak again after a few seconds of recharge. If close enough, they take out a combat knife and try to melee.

 

As for the "skeleton" enemy idea, that would actually make for an interesting Infested unit.

 

The Infested Revenant: An elite unit. Appear as tall scrawny humanoids with long arms. Uses their claws as their main form of offense. Unless the killing blow is dealt to the head of the Revenant, it will resurrect itself, up to a maximum of twice. On their first life, they move at regular speed (i.e. Tenno walking), and only use their claws. On their second life, they start sprinting (i.e. Rhino sprint speed) and have a faster attack rate. On their third and final life, they go berserk (Loki sprint speed) and can also spit acid blobs. Each time they resurrect they become visually more damaged and distorted, until the third death when they're too damaged to resurrect.

[MalusCalibur]

+1 for a very well thought-out, detailed, and constructive post, Malus. Reading through it actually brought back some old ideas of mine, specifically relating to the "better dodge functionality" section.

 

...

 

Mod Rework:

*Handspring - Instead of decreasing knockdown time, it turns your normal Recovery move into a Handspring that launches you a short distance in the direction the camera is facing. Fusion increases leap distance.

 

New Mods (Names open to suggestion):

*Shadow Slide - Increased invulnerability frames while dodging

*Lithe - Decreased stamina cost on dodging

*Tumbler - Increased dodge distance

*Slither - Removes unit collision while dodging (allows you to dodge "through" enemies)

*Windmill - Allows you to press the E button instead of space when knocked down to perform a Windmill, lashing out at nearby enemies with your melee weapon while recovering. Uses the weapon's Slide Attack damage. Costs an amount of stamina roughly equal to a melee attack and a recovery combined (unless modded).

*Feline Grace - Increases the input window for Knockdown Recovery (you can press the space bar a little sooner/later than normal the higher it's ranked).

 

What do you guys think?

 

Thank you for your praise :)

I like your mod suggestions; they offer the direct alternative to Redirection/Vitality/etc - do you prioritise defences or dodging? The more confident or skilled a player is with dodging, the more inclined they may be to use those mods instead of defensive ones. Ergo this feels like a real matter of choice rather than the current model of being forced to give up essential mods for the 'patch' solution ones. 'Slither' in particular appeals as an interesting mechanic, though perhaps that one should be named 'Shadow Slide', as it seems to fit better.

I'd also like to add here another thought that I had - just as each different Warframe has a differing sprint speed, I'd suggest each having a differing base dodge speed as well. Lighter frames, like Ash or Loki, would have a faster dodge, while heavier ones, like Rhino or Saryn, would have a slower one. The differences would not be so large as to affect the dodge too greatly in either direction, but enough to offer a bit more variety, and to allow further specialisation for each style of play (agility VS defence).

 

 

Not if the cloak/invis is done WELL. The problem with cloaking enemies in Warframe right now is that they are PERFECTLY invisible, and CANNOT BE DAMAGED (unless you're meleeing for some reason) while cloaked. A much better example of cloaking enemies would be things like the Stalkers (Killing Floor) or Hyperior Infiltrators (Borderlands 2). Both can cloak, but still maintain a flickering silhouette, meaning you can still locate and shoot them if you have a keen eye. You have no idea how satisfying it is to catch a glimpse of a Stalker's flicker and blast her just before she can sneak up on a teammate.

 

A concept of cloaking enemies in Warframe done well:

 

The Corpus Marksman (re-vamped Sniper): An advanced unit, they can use cloaking technology and snipe from afar. They maintain a slight silhouette even while cloaked, and can be shot as well as shoot while cloaked. Since they use the Lanka, their shots are projectiles and CAN be traced back to the Marksman's location given that you see the shot, and they don't switch locations unless damaged. When they fire, their cloak flickers. When they are hit, their cloak is temporarily disabled. If they are far enough from the player when damaged, they attempt to run to a new vantage point and cloak again after a few seconds of recharge. If close enough, they take out a combat knife and try to melee.

 

 

The Infested Revenant: An elite unit. Appear as tall scrawny humanoids with long arms. Uses their claws as their main form of offense. Unless the killing blow is dealt to the head of the Revenant, it will resurrect itself, up to a maximum of twice. On their first life, they move at regular speed (i.e. Tenno walking), and only use their claws. On their second life, they start sprinting (i.e. Rhino sprint speed) and have a faster attack rate. On their third and final life, they go berserk (Loki sprint speed) and can also spit acid blobs. Each time they resurrect they become visually more damaged and distorted, until the third death when they're too damaged to resurrect.

 

 

Your description of cloaking is precisely what I envisioned - an enemy that if spotted can still be damaged. This would add an interesting quirk whereby 'scatter' weapons (like shotguns) might hit a cloaked enemy without the player realising, meaning they wonder why numbers have appeared seemingly out of nowhere and might be struck by a brief moment of panic! 

I've been debating whether the name and health bar of the cloaked enemy should appear when the reticule passes over them - if it does, it might reward an attentive player but also feels like a bit of a 'cheap' way to discover them, in which case I'd lean towards it not appearing until the enemy is de-cloaked.

I like both the Marksman and Revenant, although I'll admit to finding the rules of the Revenant a little overly complex - perhaps simply have it revive upon death unless killed by headshot? It could be made a little more threatening by allowing it to revive from all other forms of attack, including dismemberment via melee, which could reduce it to the ragged/distorted state you mention.

[WARLOCKE]

There are difficulties in Warframe?

 play solo 80-120. Then post again.

[WARLOCKE]

Scorchs can kill a max ranked redirection/vitality/fortitude Rhino in 3 seconds. With a focused Iron Skin up. Hate to see what it does to caster frames, one second?

[Goarza]

+1 for a very well thought-out, detailed, and constructive post, Malus. Reading through it actually brought back some old ideas of mine, specifically relating to the "better dodge functionality" section.

 

If I may add my own ideas:

 

Core Gameplay changes:

*Rework the dodge function (basically the way you said it) to be quicker, and more responsive at the start, but keep the short delay/recovery at the end. Still have it cost stamina, but increase the base invincibility frames just a little.

*Add a "Recovery" move, where a timely press of the space bar during the knockdown animation will cancel it, and allow the player to get back on their feet immediately, costing stamina like a dodge roll. You must press the space bar at just the right time during the knockdown for it to work; panicking and pressing too soon, or hesitating and pressing too late will not activate the Recovery.

 

Mod Rework:

*Handspring - Instead of decreasing knockdown time, it turns your normal Recovery move into a Handspring that launches you a short distance in the direction the camera is facing. Fusion increases leap distance.

 

New Mods (Names open to suggestion):

*Shadow Slide - Increased invulnerability frames while dodging

*Lithe - Decreased stamina cost on dodging

*Tumbler - Increased dodge distance

*Slither - Removes unit collision while dodging (allows you to dodge "through" enemies)

*Windmill - Allows you to press the E button instead of space when knocked down to perform a Windmill, lashing out at nearby enemies with your melee weapon while recovering. Uses the weapon's Slide Attack damage. Costs an amount of stamina roughly equal to a melee attack and a recovery combined (unless modded).

*Feline Grace - Increases the input window for Knockdown Recovery (you can press the space bar a little sooner/later than normal the higher it's ranked).

 

What do you guys think?

I like your ideas but In my opinion mods shouldn't make the basic abilities you are given more effective or add new ones. In game's current state I will not choose Handspring over Redirection or similar mod cause I know I am more likely to benefit from having my stats increased than decreasing my knock down recovery time when i may never get knocked down. The only way I see those mods being in the game is if we got separate slots for them and leave the old slots for mods that affect our basic stats but that starts to look like an MMORPG with old mod slots being for armor and new ones for skills/talents/traits we choose. If we just got the choice to recover faster/roll in a direction/do the "Windmill" when knocked down without needing a mod it would give us options and more Action Game feel instead of RPG where your performance depends more on your equipment and not so much on your skill. To sum it up I think we need more gameplay changes like your ideas, adding more moves and making old ones useful which would make skill and playstyles matter more in stead of having mods for everything.

Edited November 6, 2013 by Gorzagorz

[Liminal]

Not if the cloak/invis is done WELL. 

No no, I didn't say it would be inherently bad, just that I personally hate invisible enemies. Stalkers are cool because they just run straight for the closest player :P

[Thelonious]

Agreed with above.

 

We know the gameplay devs at DE have the bad habit of wanting to transform good ideas into mods.

Handspring is the perfect example of that, as it was born from one of the first forum discussions on the same subject we're talking about now.

And so were most of those useless stamina/block mods we got at U10.

(I sometimes imagine there's a guy at DE who's sole purpose is to scout for new mod ideas on the forums: "Good idea, let's make it a mod!!!")

 

 

Back on the subject.

 

This is how Warframe should have done it.

 

 

It's basic and intuitive design, not even original, just a melting pot of what you can find in many other games.

 

This is what we got

 

     

 

RNG

 

@DE: WE GET IT, the mod system is the only original gameplay system of this game, you want to use it. Don't make it an excuse to not have to work on the major issues of the game plz. 

 

Please, for the love of god, be very careful when you make mod suggestions on the forums.

Edited November 6, 2013 by Thelonious

[Azira]

IMO, the only way to truly pave the way for getting rid of artifical difficulty, aka agency removal and bullet-sponge/instakill enemies is to improve the AI. Standard grineer forces should make an active effort to direct player attention to Napalms and Heavy Gunners. How do you do this? Make them less likely to leave cover if at least one nearby heavy unit hasn't been shot at lately, forcing players to flank around the front line of their forces if they want to get at the squishies. The corpus should also make an active effort to let their moas do the tanking, and specialized units like leech ospreys should go about their jobs with more intelligence, waiting until the player is distracted before debuffing the player. Railgun Moas should flee from melee combat, seeking the largest crowd of their fellows, or a shockwave moa(which is a good example of how CC should interact with the player, imo, aka avoidable, visible, and punishes player carelessness). The infested should have tactics based around separating the player. Disruptors should have an avoidable AoE debuff, toxics should try to position themselves to hit the most players possible, and healers should actively group larger hordes and have a chance of retreating if the horde dies before they do.

 

Little things like that, really. Make the enemy force the players to be smarter and more coordinated. It will do wonders for making this game seem less like a grind and more like a legitimate test of skill.

[MalusCalibur]

I like your ideas but In my opinion mods shouldn't make the basic abilities you are given more effective or add new ones. In game's current state I will not choose Handspring over Redirection or similar mod cause I know I am more likely to benefit from having my stats increased than decreasing my knock down recovery time when i may never get knocked down. The only way I see those mods being in the game is if we got separate slots for them and leave the old slots for mods that affect our basic stats but that starts to look like an MMORPG with old mod slots being for armor and new ones for skills/talents/traits we choose. If we just got the choice to recover faster/roll in a direction/do the "Windmill" when knocked down without needing a mod it would give us options and more Action Game feel instead of RPG where your performance depends more on your equipment and not so much on your skill. To sum it up I think we need more gameplay changes like your ideas, adding more moves and making old ones useful which would make skill and playstyles matter more in stead of having mods for everything.

 

I agree that whole abilities (like dodging, knockdown recovery etc) should not be mods, but improving existing abilities with mods is perfectly acceptable - take Rush, for example. Only the 'Windmill' mod, out of all Xanesh's suggestions, added a new ability - and I agree that this should not be a mod, but rather an inbuilt ability if it is to exist. His other ideas, though, were all 'improvement' mods, and thus I'd say they were fine.

 

 

 

IMO, the only way to truly pave the way for getting rid of artifical difficulty, aka agency removal and bullet-sponge/instakill enemies is to improve the AI. Standard grineer forces should make an active effort to direct player attention to Napalms and Heavy Gunners. How do you do this? Make them less likely to leave cover if at least one nearby heavy unit hasn't been shot at lately, forcing players to flank around the front line of their forces if they want to get at the squishies. The corpus should also make an active effort to let their moas do the tanking, and specialized units like leech ospreys should go about their jobs with more intelligence, waiting until the player is distracted before debuffing the player. Railgun Moas should flee from melee combat, seeking the largest crowd of their fellows, or a shockwave moa(which is a good example of how CC should interact with the player, imo, aka avoidable, visible, and punishes player carelessness). The infested should have tactics based around separating the player. Disruptors should have an avoidable AoE debuff, toxics should try to position themselves to hit the most players possible, and healers should actively group larger hordes and have a chance of retreating if the horde dies before they do.

 

Little things like that, really. Make the enemy force the players to be smarter and more coordinated. It will do wonders for making this game seem less like a grind and more like a legitimate test of skill.

 

These are some great AI suggestions, and indeed one cannot remove the current artificial difficulties without replacing them, lest the game become too easy.

 

 

 

 

Agreed with above.

 

We know the gameplay devs at DE have the bad habit of wanting to transform good ideas into mods.

Handspring is the perfect example of that, as it was born from one of the first forum discussions on the same subject we're talking about now.

And so were most of those useless stamina/block mods we got at U10.

(I sometimes imagine there's a guy at DE who's sole purpose is to scout for new mod ideas on the forums: "Good idea, let's make it a mod!!!")

 

Absolutely, and this must be stressed ad infinitum. The solution to the problems in my original post cannot just be more mods.

 

 

To avoid frequently quoting people just to agree with them, I had a few more thoughts with regards to enemy types:

 

- An enemy that has a weakpoint, but when it is struck there, it enters a 'berserk' state in which it's speed and damage are increased. This presents players with a choice - do they attempt a quick kill by striking the weakpoint, but risk being attacked before they can finish it, or do they play safe and stick to 'lesser' hits?

- An enemy that generates a Snow Globe-like shield on a target player's location, but in reverse - it allows projectiles to pass through from outside, but not inside. This forces players affected to change position to avoid the effects - it could be used to force them out of cover, or into a less favourable firing spot. The effect would have to be reasonably short lived, and have a long cooldown to prevent frustration or multiple instances.

- An enemy that can infrequently deploy Tesla grenades, similar to Vauban. It could be combined with the previous suggestion into a single enemy (the Reenigne, perhaps? ;) )

- Not strictly an enemy, but a trap that fires some kind of weapon jamming device, reducing player fire rate and reload speed for a period of time. It would be triggered by a Corpus security camera detecting the player, deterring them from being careless about detection (at present there is little incentive beyond being slowed down).

 

 

I'd also considered the following changes to existing Infested enemies:

 

- When Leapers connect with their jump attack, instead of knocking the player down, the Leaper latches on to them, inducing a negative effect (Slows movement? Prevents weapon switching and/or melee? Progressive damage? A combination?)

- Remove the poison effect from getting too near to Toxic Ancients, and instead make their melee attacks induce that poison -this brings them more into line with the way Disrupters function.

Edited November 7, 2013 by MalusCalibur

[nekrojiji]

When I get stun locked  it's my fault. 

 

For all of you who complain about stun lock, like little girls, try this on your missions: Take out every threat the moment you encounter it! If you kill the powerfull enemies the moment you meet them they won't stack and keep you stun locked.

[MalusCalibur]

When I get stun locked  it's my fault. 

 

For all of you who complain about stun lock, like little girls, try this on your missions: Take out every threat the moment you encounter it! If you kill the powerfull enemies the moment you meet them they won't stack and keep you stun locked.

 

That is an impossible solution. The high spawn rate and narrow corridors mean it is not always possible to simply take out everything capable of stun/stagger/knockdown before it is able to use those abilities. The movement in game is not fast and fluid enough to allow for rapid evasion when said enemies are close by. As I said in the original post, I have by this point learned all of the attacks that stun/stagger/knock down, and know the timing at which they occur, and though I would not consider myself entirely unskilled at the game, still I frequently get hit by such attacks.

Additionally, I would argue that stunlock should never occur in good game design, as it serves as a poor method to punish the player for a failure - taking control from them means they are effectively not playing, and fosters only frustration when damage or death occurs while the player is completely unable to respond.

Lastly, your insulting attitude is both not needed and not desired.

Edited November 7, 2013 by MalusCalibur

[Ganpot]

We know the gameplay devs at DE have the bad habit of wanting to transform good ideas into mods.

Handspring is the perfect example of that, as it was born from one of the first forum discussions on the same subject we're talking about now.

And so were most of those useless stamina/block mods we got at U10.

(I sometimes imagine there's a guy at DE who's sole purpose is to scout for new mod ideas on the forums: "Good idea, let's make it a mod!!!")

 

@DE: WE GET IT, the mod system is the only original gameplay system of this game, you want to use it. Don't make it an excuse to not have to work on the major issues of the game plz. 

 

Please, for the love of god, be very careful when you make mod suggestions on the forums.

 

I agree.  Transforming what should have been fundamental gameplay aspects into mods was one of the worst ideas DE has ever come up with.  And then they made them almost all reliant on RNG, which doubled the stupidity.  If you actually tried to build your character around Reflex Guard, then every high-level mission would just end up being a test of luck.

 

In a shooter or hack-and-slash game, never EVER make the outcome of combat dependent on RNG! 

 

I also seem to recall some staff members defending such mods (as well as the underpowered resistance mods) as beginner mods.  I personally find that excuse to be a cop-out for laziness.  There's a reason balancing is important in games: players like having choices.  If a shooter contains 12 guns, but every gun is just a better version of the previous one, then that game is going to get justly criticized.  Having mods which no one will ever use doesn't add more variety, it just adds more junk to the loot tables. 

[Goarza]

I agree that whole abilities (like dodging, knockdown recovery etc) should not be mods, but improving existing abilities with mods is perfectly acceptable - take Rush, for example. Only the 'Windmill' mod, out of all Xanesh's suggestions, added a new ability - and I agree that this should not be a mod, but rather an inbuilt ability if it is to exist. His other ideas, though, were all 'improvement' mods, and thus I'd say they were fine.

I'm ok with mods improving abilities but not when they affect one specific thing in a specific way. Rush is alright cause it is basically a movement speed mod, it works for wall running as well as sprinting and it would make sense if it had some effect on dodge. I find mods that affect just one specific thing to be silly, for example Acrobat, decreases stamina cost of wall running, just how does that work? Why do I get tired less when I'm on a wall and is it really worth using 1 out of my 6 slots for it? Another example is melee and charge damage mods, why my sword's charged attack may be potentially weaker than normal swing? it's the same blade I'm hitting with and I even take my time to deliver a heavier blow.

 

Mods affecting just one maneuver should do more than just increase one or two aspects of it by x% and I personally don't see being able to dodge roll further as an alternative to maxed redirection/ironskin/vitality. I seem to recall that in some Action RPG if you assigned skill points in a certain way you had an option to pick a passive ability that changed your dodge roll into a blink that's faster and also does a little damage to enemies you blink through. I don't know if a blink in particular is a good idea for warframe but with something like that I could see serious alternative to having my shield increased by 440%.

Edited November 8, 2013 by Gorzagorz

[Metalbawkses]

personally i don't believe it to be "artificial difficulties" since it actually means no matter what you do, you cant avoid the punishment. but putting that aside, i think player should get a "crowd control" cool down, meaning like if you get shield bashed by a lancer, the other lancer would have to wait around 5 seconds before you can be knocked down again, either that or the diminishing idea from previous posts but i would suggest a greater drop each time for the diminishing.

[fatpig84]

You realise if you play Rhino, stun lock becomes someone elses problem ?

 

Loki and Nyx don't have problem with stun lockas too !

[LukeAura]

I would love to see ideas like anything you've mentioned here.

Enemies that run away (yes, away not towards) you, take cover and attack with their sniper weapons

 

Sigh...

I've always wondered why grineer ballistas don't stay near the middle of large maps or take to high places, and are usually are trying to snipe me from medium/close distances instead of long. They also tend to run around in circles a lot like they're not quite sure what to do. 

 

[TwiceDead]

Take a look at Dark Souls, then implement that sort of difficulty into Warframe. 

That wouldn't work at all, but man can dream. 

[fatpig84]

Take a look at Dark Souls, then implement that sort of difficulty into Warframe. 

That wouldn't work at all, but man can dream. 

 

That is what Armor 2.0 is trying to partly achieve.

You can still use a MK1 Braton (modded sufficiently of course) to kill a level 100+ mob rather than totally obsolete like now even with great mods.

 

Part of Dark Souls is that you can use any starting weapon and complete the game that is what Armor 2.0 is striving to do.

[Nagisawa]

Take a look at Dark Souls, then implement that sort of difficulty into Warframe. 

That wouldn't work at all, but man can dream. 

Dark Souls is not hard.  It's a game built on pattern recognition, and patience.  It's tedious at best, it seems to me you've never played a really hard game.  One that tested your reflexes instead of using massive damage to mask it's simplistic gameplay.

[biomachine]

maybe change some enemy ability to just a bit of slow movement rather than the stagger or knockdown, I think. You can still do something at least.

Edited November 8, 2013 by biomachine

[Liminal]

#3 would reduce frustration so. Freaking. Much.

I agree with all points.

[alocrius]

Some nice ideas. +1  Would love to see some of this stuff like your pheromone released by enemies to increase target priority and increase damage with secretions..  awesome ideas that mitigate 'player agency removal.'  The harsh reality is we haven't seen DE act on any intelligent player feedback since the beta began.  Unless platinum is involved and they have a perceived financial responsibility.  Otherwise, they operate with impunity outside of any responsibility to the player experience.  C'est la vie.

[MalusCalibur]

I'm ok with mods improving abilities but not when they affect one specific thing in a specific way. Rush is alright cause it is basically a movement speed mod, it works for wall running as well as sprinting and it would make sense if it had some effect on dodge. I find mods that affect just one specific thing to be silly, for example Acrobat, decreases stamina cost of wall running, just how does that work? Why do I get tired less when I'm on a wall and is it really worth using 1 out of my 6 slots for it? Another example is melee and charge damage mods, why my sword's charged attack may be potentially weaker than normal swing? it's the same blade I'm hitting with and I even take my time to deliver a heavier blow.

 

Mods affecting just one maneuver should do more than just increase one or two aspects of it by x% and I personally don't see being able to dodge roll further as an alternative to maxed redirection/ironskin/vitality. I seem to recall that in some Action RPG if you assigned skill points in a certain way you had an option to pick a passive ability that changed your dodge roll into a blink that's faster and also does a little damage to enemies you blink through. I don't know if a blink in particular is a good idea for warframe but with something like that I could see serious alternative to having my shield increased by 440%.

 

For mods such as those suggested that affect the dodge moves, the bonuses given would have to be significant, and the mod cost not prohibitive, in order to provide a valid alternative to simple defence padding. In that sense I agree with you - a mod that increases dodge speed by a mere +30% for 9 slots (for example) would be worthless. But what about one that gave +100%? They would, of course, need to be carefully balanced - here I am just picking numbers at whim.

Mods that alter the behaviour of the dodge, such as Xanesh's 'Slither', would strike me as good ideas also.

 

 

Loki and Nyx don't have problem with stun lockas too !

 

Unfortunately, all frames have problems with it - there will always be times when you won't have the energy to use abilities like Invisibility, or you don't react quickly enough to cast them before being affected. It is a problem that affects all players equally.

 

 

Take a look at Dark Souls, then implement that sort of difficulty into Warframe. 

That wouldn't work at all, but man can dream. 

 

I disagree - Dark Souls, from what I understand, is more about precise attention paid to enemy attacks and the environment, given that death is frequent and rapid, usually the result of a single mistake. That is precisely what I would not want in Warframe, since it is a part of the stun/stagger/knockdown problem as it currently exists.

 

 

Some nice ideas. +1  Would love to see some of this stuff like your pheromone released by enemies to increase target priority and increase damage with secretions..  awesome ideas that mitigate 'player agency removal.'  The harsh reality is we haven't seen DE act on any intelligent player feedback since the beta began.  Unless platinum is involved and they have a perceived financial responsibility.  Otherwise, they operate with impunity outside of any responsibility to the player experience.  C'est la vie.

 

A cynical viewpoint, and one I am tempted to share! Nevertheless, we cannot know precisely to what extent our feedback is taken on board, it may simply be a case of poor execution of those ideas - the mods designed around knockdown are a good example of that. We can't simply give up on making that feedback, regardless.

Damage 2.0, as I mentioned in the original post, shows that DE are willing to make large mechanical changes to the game based on player feedback, I can merely hope that the suggestions I've provided will receive a similar level of attention.

 

Edited November 8, 2013 by MalusCalibur

[unit-027]

its easy to put the mobs down even 100+ by using vectis, just dont use vectis in defense though

[MalusCalibur]

its easy to put the mobs down even 100+ by using vectis, just dont use vectis in defense though

 

This really does not seem pertinent to the discussion. I don't debate that a Vectis can kill individual enemies quickly - where it would suffer is in large groups, which Warframe often utilises. The Vectis by itself is therefore not a solution to stagger/stun/knockdown-inflicting enemies, since it is not efficient enough to kill them all in time.