So We Tennos Arent Human

[bobafetthotmail]

wanna bet? with a hot enough instrument and a large enough surface you sure can, but its impractical to do because tourniquet/suturing is way more effective 

Can you explain why heat is suddenly supposed to close a muscolar tube like a major artery?

 

Heat just cooks the muscle and makes it weak, or burns it and it falls apart.

 

How does that stop blood.

 

 

also consider if the tenno was frozen and then cut there would be no bloodspill because the blood would be still frozen in the veins and arteries

Also if the tenno was killed a day or so before (blood clots and becomes a jelly), or if someone injected clotting agents (killing him).

Edited November 8, 2013 by bobafetthotmail

[Avrose]

Can you explain why heat is suddenly supposed to close a muscolar tube like a major artery?

 

Heat just cooks the muscle and makes it weak, or burns it and it falls apart.

 

How does that stop blood.

 

 

Also if the tenno was killed a day or so before (blood clots and becomes a jelly), or if someone injected clotting agents (killing him).

There is logic then there are ratings you have to abide by.

 

Which is more important?

[alchemistjkt]

How does that stop blood.

because its cauterizing the wound.

[CyklonDX]

being human is not defined by body and organs. Its by the choices and feelings they have.

If they feel human they are.

[bobafetthotmail]

There is logic then there are ratings you have to abide by.

 

Which is more important?

I have nothing against it being some magic stasis bullS#&$ field cutting the suit using psionics from the God Emprah of Warhammer 40k.

 

When someone tries to justify that bs and say it's realistic... that &!$$es me off.

 

 

because its cauterizing the wound.

too bad that cauterizing works only up to a certain size, and the major blood vessels in the cutting points are waaaay past that size.

 

Any first aid manual says it. If a major blood vessel is damaged you must compress it, not grab a flamethrower.

Edited November 8, 2013 by bobafetthotmail

[CausticFibre]

Later in the Trailer there was a Mag that Alad V sent to the Void. It is believed that the Tenno inside was transported, but the Warframe remained there. I would believe that the same thing happened to this Excalibur.

 

That is just the suit. There was no Tenno inside.

To the void is like when 80's movies say 'See you in hell'.

[pariahlord]

Can you explain why heat is suddenly supposed to close a muscolar tube like a major artery?

 

Heat just cooks the muscle and makes it weak, or burns it and it falls apart.

 

How does that stop blood.

 

you don't seem to know how cauterization works:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cauterization

[pariahlord]

 

too bad that cauterizing works only up to a certain size, and the major blood vessels in the cutting points are waaaay past that size.

 

Any first aid manual says it. If a major blood vessel is damaged you must compress it, not grab a flamethrower.

your first aid manual wasn't set in a fictional universe with tools and technology way beyond anything we have today. A blow torch can get get to what a few hundred or a few thousand degrees? In the future they could have tools that get to a million degrees. 

[bobafetthotmail]

you don't seem to know how much blood comes out of major blood vessels.

 

Cauterization works for minor arteries, but it's not a "fix all" situation. The only way to stop a major artery is compression or emostatic laces or whatever.

[alchemistjkt]

In the future they could have tools that get to a million degrees. 

not to mention tech that creates stasis fields and the like.

science fiction is a beautiful thing.

[bobafetthotmail]

your first aid manual wasn't set in a fictional universe with tools and technology way beyond anything we have today. A blow torch can get get to what a few hundred or a few thousand degrees? In the future they could have tools that get to a million degrees. 

So, why more heat should help now?

 

Also, we have already lasers that flash-vapourize anything. Industrial laser cutters.

Edited November 9, 2013 by bobafetthotmail

[bobafetthotmail]

not to mention tech that creates stasis fields and the like.

science fiction is a beautiful thing.

and I'm fine with that. Just don't say bullS#&$ like heat and cauterization.

[Silvershadow66]

And you cannot cauterize major arteries. God I hate when people let artists run free on these things.

 

So cauterizing severed limbs never worked until about the 16th Century when tying off blood vessels started?

 

Yes you can cauterize major arteries.

 

 

too bad that cauterizing works only up to a certain size, and the major blood vessels in the cutting points are waaaay past that size.

 

Any first aid manual says it. If a major blood vessel is damaged you must compress it, not grab a flamethrower.

 

And yet centuries of people cauterizing amputated limbs proves that you are wrong that it can't be done, advances in modern medicine means its no longer the best way to do it.

Edited November 9, 2013 by Silvershadow66

[NoShoes]

The SFX of being sent to the void is probably the same tech we tenno use on the Corpus guys in capture missions. Guess they finally wanted revenge.

[bobafetthotmail]

So cauterizing severed limbs never worked until about the 16th Century when tying off blood vessels started?

 

Yes you can cauterize major arteries.

 

 

 

And yet centuries of people cauterizing amputated limbs proves that you are wrong that it can't be done, advances in modern medicine means its no longer the best way to do it.

 

You know what an emostatic lace is? You can improvise one with the belt of yor trousers. It's not surgery, it's compressing the artery from outside by constricting the limb. They had ropes and belts back then.

 

THat's the only way to stop the blood loss from cutting a major artery. Then you can cauterize or use tar or whatver barbarian method you like.

 

And release the constricition slowly winthin half an hour to an hour to avoid gangrene

Edited November 9, 2013 by bobafetthotmail

[Silvershadow66]

YOu know what an emostatic lace is? YOu can improvise one with the belt of yor trousers. It's not surgery, it's compressing the artery from outside by constricting the limb. They had ropes and belts back then.

 

Did emostatic lace exist 2000 years ago? We no longer use heated irons to cauterize amputations but it did work and would still work if medicine had not advanced to give us better methods.

 

The historic fact is that it was done and it did work. Its described in the Hippocratic Corpus, which was probably compiled in about 300BC, for use in amputations.

Edited November 9, 2013 by Silvershadow66

[bobafetthotmail]

Did emostatic lace exist 1000 years ago? We no longer use heated irons to cauterize amputations but it did work and would still work if medicine had not advanced to give us better methods.

 

The historic fact is that it was done and it did work.

They used ropes back then, as explained in the post you quoted. Just because it's not made of rubber it does not make it less emostatic lace.

[Volthorne]

You know what an emostatic lace is? You can improvise one with the belt of yor trousers. It's not surgery, it's compressing the artery from outside by constricting the limb. They had ropes and belts back then.

 

THat's the only way to stop the blood loss from cutting a major artery. Then you can cauterize or use tar or whatver barbarian method you like.

 

And release the constricition slowly winthin half an hour to an hour to avoid gangrene

Why not just use the layman's term for it: Tourniquet?

 

Also, to everyone saying "well they were cauterizing amputated arms back in medieval whatever", no, they weren't. If you lost an arm, you were going to bleed out. If you got stabbed, you were going to bleed out. If you got scratched you better damn well hope there's an apothecary within 10 feet. THAT IS HOW BAD IT WAS.

 

Hell, even today if one of your major arteries gets damaged you better damn well be inside a hospital because that's pretty much the only way you're going to get surgery fast enough to fix/stitch/compress the damned thing closed before you tear it open (if it isn't already) and bleed out. Cauterizing works on minor flesh wounds to prevent infection and nothing more.

Edited November 9, 2013 by Volthorne

[Silvershadow66]

They used ropes back then, as explained in the post you quoted. Just because it's not made of rubber it does not make it less emostatic lace.

 

No they did not. The concept of using ligatures did not get put into use in Europe until about the mid-16th Century.

 

Really, stop digging that hole, its a plain and simple historic fact that you can use red-hot iron to successfully cauterize major arteries in cases of amputation.

 

 

 

Also, to everyone saying "well they were cauterizing amputated arms back in medieval whatever", no, they weren't. If you lost an arm, you were going to bleed out. If you got stabbed, you were going to bleed out. If you got scratched you better damn well hope there's an apothecary within 10 feet. THAT IS HOW BAD IT WAS.

 

In cases of violent loss then yes you would die, but in cases of planned amputation you had a chance to survive.

 

Yes the person might die from shock when it was done and would probably succumb to infection but they could survive the procedure.

Edited November 9, 2013 by Silvershadow66

[bobafetthotmail]

No they did not. The concept of using ligatures did not get put into use in Europe until about the min-16th Century.

Then before that you would bleed out and die. I know what works NOW, and cauterization has some limits.

 

Middle ages suck.

Edited November 9, 2013 by bobafetthotmail

[bobafetthotmail]

In cases of violent loss then yes you would die, but in cases of planned amputation you had a chance to survive.

I would be curious about what kind of planned amputations were going on before 16th century. Heck not even the word is old enough.

 

the oldest stuff I know is on english warships, but that's well into the 1600.

Edited November 9, 2013 by bobafetthotmail

[Silvershadow66]

Then before that you would bleed out and die. I know what works, and cauterization has some limits.

 

Middle ages suck.

 

And yet they managed to amputate limbs and cauterize them and people did not bleed to death. There are writings about it from at least 300BC.

 

You seem to be making an error in thinking that we are talking about modern cauterization. We are not, its a big piece of red hot metal applied to the stump, something that would never be done to day because it causes massive tissue damage. But it did work.

 

 

I would be curious about what kind of planned amputations were going on before 16th century. Heck not even the word is old enough.

 

As I said above, cauterization after amputation is described in the Hippocratic Corpus which was compiled more than 2200 years (from earlier works).

 

The modern word come from the Latin cauterizare "to burn or brand with a hot iron" and that comes from the earlier Greek. So yes the word is old enough.

Edited November 9, 2013 by Silvershadow66

[taiiat]

In the future they could have tools that get to a million degrees. 

scientific heating can already create temperatures approaching 150 million Degrees. 

controlled environment, yes, but still can be done.

 

just sayin'.

 

 

THat's the only way to stop the blood loss from cutting a major artery. Then you can cauterize or use tar or whatver barbarian method you like.

this only applies if you're treating it AFTER you've cut it open. this is treating it and cutting it at the same time.

Edited November 9, 2013 by taiiat

[bobafetthotmail]

scientific heating can already create temperatures approaching 150 million Degrees. 

controlled environment, yes, but still can be done.

too low mass to heat up anything.

 

The outer atmosphere has crazy high temperatures, but it's so rarified that astronauts in it touch only a few molecules per second.

 

 

this only applies if you're treating it AFTER you've cut it open. this is treating it and cutting it at the same time.

and since heat doesn't cut a thing (lasers flash-vapourize and that leaves gaping holes in soft materials like flesh), it's again unknown.

 

And yet they managed to amputate limbs and cauterize them and people did not bleed to death. There are writings about it from at least 300BC.

got any source for that?

 

 

 

As I said above, cauterization after amputation is described in the Hippocratic Corpus which was compiled more than 2200 years (from earlier works).

Afaik, he did mention cauterization for normal injuries, and he did mention removal of limbs that were undergoing gangrene.

That's an entirely different beast as you just need to cut away dead tissue without going too deep. Blood isn't flowing in dead tissue.

Edited November 9, 2013 by bobafetthotmail

[Silvershadow66]

Afaik, he did mention cauterization for normal injuries, and he did mention removal of limbs that were undergoing gangrene. That's an entirely different beast as you just need to cut away dead tissue without going too deep. Blood isn't flowing in dead tissue.

 

They used cauterization for many things, but it is specifically mentioned for use after amputation of a limb.