Oberon Rework Idea v4

[Iedarus]

Another Oberon rework pitch because I want my fairy king to finally get his wings (despite him not having wings in the actual mythos):

Passive:

Similar to current passive, but increase the amount of health, shields, and armor given and/or add the % bonus after mods (assuming it doesn't do the latter already). Have the instant resurrect apply to all companions on the field on a cooldown. 

Smite:

Oberon targets a single unit, inflicting Radiation and Impact damage while knocking them down. Damage is doubled if target is below 50% hp. Enemies killed by Smite give Oberon energy. Helminth variant can omit the energy gain if it proves to break Helminth balance. Having it be single target with more damage will not only make it more exciting to use, it will also give Oberon an energy economy so he doesn't need to pump himself with 2+ energy boosts just to stay energy positive.

Hallowed Ground:

No big changes needed; a base 360 radius will make the ability feel better to use without Overextended. Overall, this is objectively his best ability.

Guardian Aura:

Name changed from Renewal to Guardian Aura to fit the new version. Oberon summons a protective aura around himself which heals allies, increases max health and grants armor. Allies who leave the aura retain buffs for a short period and will regain those buffs upon re-entry. This will end the hair-pulling experience of constantly having to stack ability strength with the Operator all over again in the event a teammate gets nullified. Now, as long as he's the one not nullified, nullified allies can simply re enter his aura like Gloom or Wisp motes. The max health increase will help Oberon compete with other supports' heal abilities while still having his unique armor buff utility; Rhino mains rejoice. Hallowed Ground codependency has also been removed, same with his 4. Energy drain cap is also added so Nekros players can necro the whole tileset and not feel like donks.

Crann Bethadh:

Oberon summons the tree of life, Crann Bethadh. This tree periodically unleashes a wave of damaging energy that removes armor, shields and overguard from nearby enemies. % siphoned armor/shields/overguard from all enemies hit grant Oberon and his allies increased weapon damage up to a cap. Brand new ultimate to retire the old tired one, as well as a nod to the frame's Celtic origins. Its ability to strip everything should give Oberon the push he needs to no longer be a D tier frame. As for the party buff, I figured a % damage increase that was added after mods like faction mods would give him another unique party buff since every other frame with offensive buffs seems to lean towards crit and fire rate.

 

Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk. Please, DE, I'm on my hands and knees; make this frame cool.

Edited January 7 by Iedarus

[Iedarus]

13 minutes ago, NorthernDarkIceSoul said:

Oh I forgot Oberon existed

So did everyone else... :[

Edited January 7 by Iedarus

[Yasha-7HS]

On 2024-01-06 at 7:54 PM, Iedarus said:

Crann Bethadh:

Oberon summons the tree of life, Crann Bethadh. This tree periodically unleashes a wave of damaging energy that removes armor, shields and overguard from nearby enemies. % siphoned armor/shields/overguard from all enemies hit grant Oberon and his allies increased weapon damage up to a cap. Brand new ultimate to retire the old tired one, as well as a nod to the frame's Celtic origins. Its ability to strip everything should give Oberon the push he needs to no longer be a D tier frame. As for the party buff, I figured a % damage increase that was added after mods like faction mods would give him another unique party buff since every other frame with offensive buffs seems to lean towards crit and fire rate.

While I don't agree with stripping overguard directly, this seems like an amazingly thought out ability that synergizes well with Oberon being more of an 'area defense' based frame that would like to set a territory to defend. The only two concerns would be if the tree itself has collision and the loss of his 'hard' CC. In OW, there's a somewhat similar character and it's ok in that game for the tree to have collision as it acts as a barrier specifically, but for Warframe the ability to block doors, especially spawning doors, could lead to dozens and dozens of issues, and the opportunity for trolling. 
Also, as Reckoning was Oberon's best 'stop shooting me' button, maybe we could move the blind over to his Hallowed Ground cast, or give it a short stagger when cast. Just so that he has something when he's surrounded and radiation isn't enough to reduce the aggro.

On 2024-01-06 at 7:54 PM, Iedarus said:

Smite:

Oberon targets a single unit, inflicting Radiation and Impact damage while knocking them down.

I'm actually quite fond of the Puncture damage and procs, and since the ability will knock down enemies the main affect of impact wouldn't be very useful.(For some reason I was under the impression that Smite did Radiation and Puncture base damage, but it seems to only apply puncture procs with no damage to be seen) Otherwise, I think this would be a pretty great change. Maybe a short lived 'vulnerability' or 'marking' effect, similar to Nezha's chakram that allows Oberon to follow up with weapon damage and still gain at least a portion of the energy regeneration. 

Otherwise, I think everything else looks fantastic and wholeheartedly agree. Many of these changes are honestly just Quality of Life to be brought up with the times without changing the identity of the Warframe. On the contrary, it only enhances! 
I'd love to see your opinion on an augment for the fourth ability in your rework.

[Iedarus]

6 hours ago, Yasha-7HS said:

While I don't agree with stripping overguard directly, this seems like an amazingly thought out ability that synergizes well with Oberon being more of an 'area defense' based frame that would like to set a territory to defend. The only two concerns would be if the tree itself has collision and the loss of his 'hard' CC. In OW, there's a somewhat similar character and it's ok in that game for the tree to have collision as it acts as a barrier specifically, but for Warframe the ability to block doors, especially spawning doors, could lead to dozens and dozens of issues, and the opportunity for trolling. 
Also, as Reckoning was Oberon's best 'stop shooting me' button, maybe we could move the blind over to his Hallowed Ground cast, or give it a short stagger when cast. Just so that he has something when he's surrounded and radiation isn't enough to reduce the aggro.

Ow2's Lifeweaver can also use his tree for trolling, granted. I'm sure DE could make collision only apply to enemies so Oberon can't trap his allies. I do see your points for Reckoning's blind effect, maybe that could be added to the new ability as well, or give the tree a taunt effect but Oberon can keep it up with his healing.

 

6 hours ago, Yasha-7HS said:

I'm actually quite fond of the Puncture damage and procs, and since the ability will knock down enemies the main affect of impact wouldn't be very useful.(For some reason I was under the impression that Smite did Radiation and Puncture base damage, but it seems to only apply puncture procs with no damage to be seen) Otherwise, I think this would be a pretty great change. Maybe a short lived 'vulnerability' or 'marking' effect, similar to Nezha's chakram that allows Oberon to follow up with weapon damage and still gain at least a portion of the energy regeneration. 

I think the orbs do the puncture damage. The mark would also be a good thing to have in case you misjudge by 1 hp or something. My main gripe with the orbs is how they just fly around randomly so they often don't target who you want them to target unless you have a hyper specific setup to force the orbs to stay put on the main target. Hopefully this will help make him no longer feel mod starved.

 

6 hours ago, Yasha-7HS said:

Otherwise, I think everything else looks fantastic and wholeheartedly agree. Many of these changes are honestly just Quality of Life to be brought up with the times without changing the identity of the Warframe. On the contrary, it only enhances! 
I'd love to see your opinion on an augment for the fourth ability in your rework.

Thanks for your input! That was exactly what I was going for; Oberon has things in his kit that just feel like one big missed high five. Making a couple of changes like this will actually make him feel complete.

Haven't gotten that far with a new augment yet, though. I don't know if simply applying Hallowed Reckoning to the new ability augment will suffice, though.

Edited January 9 by Iedarus

[Redphienix]

I have mixed but mostly positive feelings towards this presumed rework, so kudos just for that! I enjoyed reading some oberon ideas that take into account his current flavor :)

 

Passive proposal:

I'd argue his passive is fine- ever since they adjusted it to be link mods with himself for all companion types, that's a pretty decent passive on its own. Not show stopping in any way, but Oberon's kit isn't dependent on having a game-shaking passive, and simply raising the link % seems like a buff for the sake of a buff rather than actually impactful in any way.

Now, I wouldn't remotely complain if it DID get buffed like that, but it feels like messing with it for the sake of it rather than with actual focus on what would improve Oberon's gameplay loop. It's fine as is in my opinion. I'd take it as is or entirely different over just giving it more numbers for the sake of a green patch note instead of a red one.

Smite proposal:

I have neutral feelings towards your Smite concept. Feels like a side-grade in many ways as you changed its use case by removing the orbs, buuuut that seems entirely fair when you're arguing it should be more of an execute style single target move with built in energy efficiency.

I'm not in love with it, if only because I'm still looking at this hypothetical ability and thinking "That's helminth fodder".
Energy efficiency getting slipped into his kit sounds neat, but this doesn't sound particularly interesting to use. A single target radiation blast in modern warframe sounds kind of... bad? Like the damage numbers would have to be insane for anyone to hold onto it- even with the double damage on half health enemies. Considering bosses usually don't care about ability damage, and everything from base to SP dies fine without a single target nuke- the use case for this feels non-existent as the only enemies that would survive weapons or AOE abilities would probably also survive this as I doubt DE would just go "Oh yeah, it does 13 billion damage". It's unlikely to scale in any way that grants it useful play.

Now, Smite TODAY lacks a lot of impact or useful play, but that's part of why I'd wager it's the move most in need of entirely being replaced rather than number adjusted.

But dang it, bonus points all over the place for going "Smite should be an execute move" because heck yeah it should be lol

As described, I can pretty much just see this being spammed as fast as someone can press the 1 key while aiming towards a group of low level enemies as I suspect it would entirely refund itself and more on kill- but then anything above low level content probably isn't getting that benefit- and that benefit is overshadowed by like... firing a weapon in the same direction and picking up whatever orbs the group drops- the single target rework sounds highly dependent on having insane numbers attached.

Also, with the description of the following abilities, I'm not so sure Oberon is half as starved for energy in your rework as he currently is with Reckoning spam->

Hallowed Ground proposal:

10/10 and simple. Nothing exciting but this really is just "update it for 2024" levels of QOL that should be baked into his kit.

I would personally put more into a rework- namely the "hallowed ground" effect as it currently exists- sucks. It's FAR too picky on what is and isn't hallowed ground and the fact that it is such a defining aspect of Oberon's "optimal output", wherein he grants himself and his allies STATUS IMMUNITY of all things, makes that a problem.

I would argue that Hallowed Ground should be more generous in its application of the status effect on warframes. Namely, it should either "count as ground" while you're above or below it by like 10m (a jump and a half) so you don't accidentally jump and eat a knockdown that you should be immune to- OR it should have a lingering effect on warframes (I prefer this) where stepping off of hallowed ground grants the effect for 3-8 seconds with or without scaling from duration (It could legitimately just be 3 seconds hard capped and it'd be a night and day improvement for Oberon).

Renewal replacement proposal:

I like it!
I would personally argue in favor of retaining the current renewal "infinite range and duration" after leaving oberon's range, but I get the argument to attach a duration to it like wisp motes. I'd argue go further in the direction of QOL- keep the renewal infinite duration and slap a recast range around Oberon that any buddy that gets nullified can just walk into (like a mote) and reacquire the buff without needing a true recast.
It's already "motes but with energy drain" so it can have both QOL in my book, you're already paying for it.

But that "I actually want it MORE buffed" nonsense out of the way, I do genuinely really like this renewal idea. It's nothing 200% out of the box or anything, but we're talking support, it just needs to work and be worth using and this sounds good to me!

The best part of renewal as is is the armor buff, which is annoyingly tied to hallowed ground (for initial cast that is) and is tied to a high drain HOT that doesn't really "do" anything and doesn't even outperform similar HOTs like wisp.
Adjusting this to better spotlight the armor aspect by not just giving armor (on its own!!!!) but ALSO giving higher health like Wisp's mote actually does a lot to give players better feedback on the EHP they are getting thanks to Oberon.
Health + Armor = good afterall, and Health + HOT + Armor = even better, I like this simple adjustment :)

Reckoning rework proposal:
I am generally positive on this proposal in concept but I have notes which leave me not really sold on it just yet, that may or may not actually matter because it's not necessary for every frame to be "perfect" after all.

For one, the elephant in the room, it is both thematically appropriate and potentially awful that this rework is doubling down on Oberon's currently "stationary" playstyles.

This isn't a death sentence- we have plenty of stationary frames that do very well, but it is worth mentioning that currently Oberon is not nearly as "glued" in place as he appears as he really just needs to press 2 one time in any location and bam, it's home now, do whatever you want. His kit currently does pretty well at staying mobile and just "doing stuff". Reckoning is a big part of that, as it is his big damage button and it doesn't remotely care about anything (it just appreciates grass).

This rework is competing with a 42m (at max) AOE bubble that kills well-enough through walls up to base steel path assuming you're using the augment, and further if you decide to use grouping moves to abuse the reckoning bubbles stacking on each other.

The thing is, it doesn't have to "beat" reckoning, it just has to be good on its own- different use-cases or not. I just bring it up because Reckoning as is is not a rooted in place ability- and it would arguably be beneficial to maintain Oberon's current mobility and potentially improve upon it; It's part of why I think hallowed ground should have a grace period so that it's more useful in more situations- lingering effects grant such strong buffs more utility than if they were just locked in place- like if a mote didn't have a duration and you HAD to sit on it.

Anyway anyway anyway~!

I think in terms of competing, your idea is WILDLY different and I like the direction- my apprehensions on making Oberon stationary noted but put to the side!-

There's no doubt it's thematically appropriate- so much so that I struggled to not just go "YES, GIVE THE BOY HIS TREE!" but I stopped myself (mostly) lol

The thing is, it DOES kind of sound like "Hallowed Ground....2!"
It's just another layer of an AOE damage field going out on your pre-set defense zone. It has some shiny new ideas strapped to it- like stripping overguard, and being a damage buff, but it doesn't sound particularly useful in most situations, wherein Reckoning can already do plenty more than this tool can.

Having less control over the armor strip sounds not great- we can currently press 2 buttons and strip everything in 42m through walls- this demands you plant a tree and wait on it to pulse out some damage to do the same thing. I DO like that it does it on its own- no grass necessary- but then it's also a damage field so unlike reckoning it's MORE likely to already be placed on top of grass- so the freedom isn't as free as it first appears.

Also, the description makes me assume it'd just be worse at that particular job by virtue of being a setup move that probably wouldn't be granted the holy "no LOS check, walls mean nothing" rule that Reckoning currently has, or the range for that matter since you're giving it OVERGUARD strip- 42m is nowhere near the range they'd give you for that oof. But if they did ;) lol

It's also a touch sad to see no mention of orbs. But considering you moved the energy economy to his 1 from his 4, that's fine, especially when this new kit sounds a LOT less spammy.... for better and worse. Sounds like you set up 2 and 4, then maintain energy to keep 3 up. You're only real interaction becomes spamming 1 which I'm not enthused about but I can see the cogs turning to make it all spin well together with 1 giving energy back to maintain 2-3-4.

I'm also curious if DE would even bother giving it a faction mod damage buff. We only have 1 ability that can really play with that, Roar, and considering how often we get new buffs and none of them go for the bleed loving faction side of things, I kind of expect they would just slap serration on it and call it a day :(

 

But I digress and rambled too much. On his "new" 4 I say, I adore the thematic approach, I'm not sold on the emphasis on stationary gameplay, and feel it weakens the current ability of Oberon in favor of a new gimmick (overguard stripping) that I'm not even particularly convinced would be an exciting new tool as is.

Also, it probably could go for some synergy with his 2 if it's also going to be an AOE floor is lava ability. Perhaps augmenting its range to match any grass you place- allowing a move that probably would not be allowed to have 42m range to reach that limit if placed on 42m grass, giving it more reach for its powerful stripping capabilities.

Or perhaps we're misplacing where this ability should be in consideration to begin with- perhaps he should lose hallowed ground entirely in favor of the tree, it's already being described as an AOE denial damage field, replacing grass with an armor stripping tree sounds perfectly reasonable- though then I'd be sad to see hallowed ground (the effect not the ability) go :(

 

 

Cool thoughts out of 10, I appreciate reading them.

[Iedarus]

11 hours ago, Redphienix said:

I have mixed but mostly positive feelings towards this presumed rework, so kudos just for that! I enjoyed reading some oberon ideas that take into account his current flavor :)

I totally get your feedback! Your input on Smite is understandable; I just wanted something that would help Oberon not have to load himself up with energy helpers thus stretching his mod slots even thinner. Even if Smite was never changed or just became something different entirely, the QOL changes on Renewal should do immensely well to at least allow him to forgo one energy helper (I've yet to test out Dethcube's energy dispenser with him).

You're 100% right to give his Hallowed ground verticality on its hitbox, especially when flying enemies screw with the Reckoning interaction.

Having the limitless range/duration on Renewal would be nice, I was just focused on making it less clunky since the actual aura is currently invisible.

As for his Reckoning, my main gripe with it is that you either use the augment, or the ability is trash, which is incredibly difficult due to how mod starved Oberon is as I'd have to sacrifice Equilibrium, at least on my build. This would be rectified if the orb drop, which I totally forgot about due to how unreliable it is, got buffed. I still strongly believe it should strip Overguard because Oberon has to compete with Wisp, Citrine and arguably Styanax since he is effectively the Oberon rework for the time being. I mean, hell, his 2 is a literal upgrade to base Reckoning.

Thanks again for your input. This helps narrow down his issues further to Smite being a meh ability in most situations and his abysmal energy economy sacrificing mod/arcane slots.

 

Edit: Replacing Stretch with the Reckoning augment works fine. 300 radius Hallowed Ground will suffice.

Edited January 10 by Iedarus

[Raarsi]

On 2024-01-06 at 7:54 PM, Iedarus said:

Another Oberon rework pitch because I want my fairy king to finally get his wings (despite him not having wings in the actual mythos):

"Dear DE devs; I know Lavos hasn't gotten a deluxe skin yet, but hear me out on this one..."

Also there are some depictions of Oberon with fairy wings.

On 2024-01-06 at 7:54 PM, Iedarus said:

Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk. Please, DE, I'm on my hands and knees; make this frame cool.

Overall, I do like this rework, and I don't really mind that fourth ability so long as the radius on it is big enough to warrant the stationary aspect.  It also reminds me of the slight thematic issue Oberon has always had because even though he's nature themed, he did start development off with the codename "Paladin" and still vaguely holds to that moniker through how his kit is currently set up.  I do wonder then if DE would be willing to strip some of that theme from him.

Admittedly though, I would miss turning whole rooms into clouds of haze, but I'd definitely try him out with this setup you've made.