Chroma's current state post-new augment

[TigranZ]

As of writing this, I must admit that Chroma's new augment makes keeping uptime on Vex Armor quite comfy finally, which lessens the amount of time you need to spend looking at its duration so it doesn't run out. That being said, all of that is invalidated by overguard as of current. if you are playing Chroma in a public or premade group that includes at least 1 overguard frame such as Styanax (with augment), Kullervo, Dante or even Frost with his augment... then you won't be able to utilize your vex armor at all.

Needless to say, overguard needs to be looked at in terms of how it interacts (or in this case, limits) certain frames like Chroma from reaching their full effectiveness. And I dare say, this would make a fine time for Chroma to receive an actual rework himself. If for no other reason than to bring him up to the times, and I know Pablo and the team would be able to pull such a thing off.

In either case, overguard removes any ability to generate buffs for any frames that require shield "or" health damage in order to function. So I feel it needs a review, and no this is not a call for any sort of nerf to overguard, as functionally it serves its purpose really well.

I, a mere Dragon frame main, am just asking that he may spread his wings, without worrying whether an overguard frame is going to make him dawdle around awkwardly as they make his most useful part of his kit ...moot. 😅

[Nerthiril]

1 hour ago, TigranZ said:

In either case, overguard removes any ability to generate buffs for any frames that require shield "or" health damage in order to function. So I feel it needs a review, and no this is not a call for any sort of nerf to overguard, as functionally it serves its purpose really well.

Its been announced next patch that chroma is going to be able to generate fury with ranged kills and scorn with melee. which imo is a bit of a bandaid fix as it will only really matter if you have an overguard frame in your team. And rage/adren will be able to work through overguard if you have no shield.

 

1 hour ago, TigranZ said:

Needless to say, overguard needs to be looked at in terms of how it interacts (or in this case, limits) certain frames like Chroma from reaching their full effectiveness. And I dare say, this would make a fine time for Chroma to receive an actual rework himself. If for no other reason than to bring him up to the times, and I know Pablo and the team would be able to pull such a thing off.

Agreed. Even with GA he still feels kinda eh and the fun you have is not really with their kit, but the guns you use. which you can use any other frame and the same gun just subsume roar for a better time. It feels like de is trying to get chroma to be a support tank and not selfish like theyve been for years. Chroma's VA is not just a self buff, nor is EW. But everyone had to go narrow minded to get VA duration to a point it is usable. Now with GA removing the need for that chroma is a bit more of the support tank it seems like he always was meant to be. But without a full rework looking over his kit (in particular 1 and 4) he will always be alright. in between good and bad and most importantly, dated. VA was not meant to keep up with SP enemies, with them able to easily kill you through scorn before you get enough fury stacks unless you have at least 300% ability str which is kinda the biggest issue with chroma, going max ability str should be a choice, not a requirement to make serviceable. basically knocks away any other potential build due to how bad going anything but str is in high level play.

[Nerthiril]

1 hour ago, TigranZ said:

I, a mere Dragon frame main, am just asking that he may spread his wings, without worrying whether an overguard frame is going to make him dawdle around awkwardly as they make his most useful part of his kit ...moot. 😅

This is kinda another gripe I have with chroma despite wanting so desperately to main it. A frame shouldn't be defined by a single ability of their kit. it should all work in tandum, does that mean every warframe should have 4 op abilities? or even 4 abilities that are useful 100% of the time? no. But no warframe should have 2 easily replaceable abilities in the helminth. (3 if you count VA, the most defining part of their kit, being easily replaceable by any other damage buff in the game)

[Vazumongr]

Might be a hot take on these forums but regarding Overguard, I think it needs to be drastically reworked, flat out removed from the game, or at the very least removed from being accessible by the player. It is a defensive system that does not interact with so many other systems in the game and actively prevents you from interacting with others. On the player, it has no interaction with any of the damage types in the game. On the player, it does not have any interaction with any of the status effects in the game. Globally it has no interaction with CC. Globally it has no interaction with mods (unless you argue for augments and Null Audit) like health, shields, armor, defense reduction (Corrosive Projection and Shield Disruption) do. Globally it has no interaction with sources of Damage Reduction. It prevents players from utilizing anything that involves taking Shield, Health, or Damage in general, like you said. It completely negates any form of shield/health regen as those pools cannot be touched until Overguard is depleted. Unlike the relationship between shields and health - Toxin damage can bypass Shields and Magnetic Status Effects can easily deplete shields - there is nothing that bypasses or aids in the depletion of Overguard (aside from technically Amps against Enemies. But the amps do so little damage compared to your weapon that the +50% Damage Modifier is moot).

It is a lazy cure-all for defense. Just slap it on anything and, "Voila! This thing has the best defensive tool in the game!" It has no interaction with so many gameplay systems, actively prevents you from using others (Crowd Control Warframes, Hunter Adrenaline, Rage, Vex Armor, Electric/Cold Elemental Ward (I cannot confirm this one at the moment. some sources of Redirection work with Overguard but I'm not sure about Reflection)), and completely negates other defensive tools available (Blessing's heal and DR, Renewal Heal and Armor, Hallowed Ground CC Status Immunity, Firewalker Status Immunity).

The only "interaction" it has with other gameplay systems is detrimental.

Edit: I got so caught up in the Overguard part I forgot the Chroma part, oops. I am 100% in favor of a Chroma rework. Even if we lose our beloved Vex Armor which I doubt as it's, unfortunately tbh, his most iconic feature. I would love for them to modernize his kit and learn extremely hard into the Elemental Dragon themes. The reason I think it's unfortunate for Chroma's most iconic feature to be Vex Armor, is because it's not tied that strongly into the dragon or elemental themes - it has 0 relation to the elements. The Augment and upcoming change just feel like bandaid fixes. They don't address the root cause of the problem. It's like instead of fixing what is making the patient sick and producing all these symptoms, we're just treating the symptoms themselves. 

Edited April 8 by Vazumongr
typo, missing words.

[Nerthiril]

To start off I agree that overguard should honestly be removed and we should have never been given access to it. It now makes it impossible to make any mode actually challenging when all you need is like one Dante or one Sty to instantly make the entire team seemingly immune from death

but to get back onto chroma

5 hours ago, Vazumongr said:

Edit: I got so caught up in the Overguard part I forgot the Chroma part, oops. I am 100% in favor of a Chroma rework. Even if we lose our beloved Vex Armor which I doubt as it's, unfortunately tbh, his most iconic feature. I would love for them to modernize his kit and learn extremely hard into the Elemental Dragon themes. The reason I think it's unfortunate for Chroma's most iconic feature to be Vex Armor, is because it's not tied that strongly into the dragon or elemental themes - it has 0 relation to the elements. The Augment and upcoming change just feel like bandaid fixes. They don't address the root cause of the problem. It's like instead of fixing what is making the patient sick and producing all these symptoms, we're just treating the symptoms themselves. 

They honestly should. Tho they aren’t properly a dragon. They just slayed a dragon like sentient. They could instead lean heavily into a Paladin style for them. Tanking and supporting their team to prevent them from dying. Removing overguard would make this role also more achievable tbh. But it already seems like DE is trying to push for that with the introduction of GA augment. But they haven’t gone all the way. Ele ward is also a team buff. So he has 2 team buffs and 2 useless abilities. Why not make him have 3 buffs (nourish is already one of the best anyways and what I use on them so I already run 3 buffing abilities) and maybe a damage one on 4 somewhat like wisp (except the 4 is actually useful) maybe like a panic button if things get tough. I did suggest a Paladin style croma. Tho it was unfinished missing a passive and 4th. This would not only tie into their theme but also keep VA. Instead of replacing all 4 abilities to fit dragon. 
 

ps. On the upcoming changes they are 100% bandaids alongside the augment which only patch chroma up. I bet the stacks on kill won’t be useful outside of having a Dante on your team. He is desperately in need of a rework. He’s gone through so many indirect nerfs. (From VA “fix” to self damage removal, to overguard) and everything they’ve done is just bandaid fixes. It’s honestly not enough