Boss type enemies being immune to Hydroid's passive as well as other armour stripping qualms.

[Buunatic]

Recently with the release of Dante Unbound and the new Disruption game mode, I had the cool idea of putting 2 Tauforged Green Shards on my Hydroid so I'd be able to fully armour strip the Necramech Demolishers (they have a cap of 4 for a given status proc, but with 2 Tauforged Green Shards you can achieve 10 corrosive procs which is enough to full strip with Hydroid's passive). But when I started playing I quickly realised it did not work. I did some light research and found that Hydroid's passive does not work on "Boss" type enemies like Demolishers and Acolytes. This seems fairly unreasonable to me. Yes, you can use 2 Tauforged Greens and 2 regular Greens to get to 14 stacks of corrosive on ANY Warframe to be able to fully strip them, but having Hydroid be the one frame that doesn't need that much investment to do so seems reasonable. Hydroid having a niche like that, which still does take a decent amount of investment since 2 Tauforged Green Shards isn't nothing, isn't overpowered and it wouldn't break the game, it would just be fun.

Additionally, I found that Archons while also having the cap of 4 status procs and immunity to Hydroid's passive, are ALSO immune to any form of armour strip whatsoever, which I think is a little silly. They will still be very tanky with multiple people running Corrosive Projection or procing heat/corrosive due to their Attenuation, so I don't see why they are immune. It would be fun to take my Anti-boss armour Hydroid into an Archon hunt to fully strip their armour (although doing that in public wouldn't be great because people would probably be running Radiation damage).

I don't know. This restriction for both Hydroid's passive and Archon armour just seems unnecessary in my opinion. Anyone else have any thoughts on this? 

Edit: Apparently Necramechs are completely immune to armour strips so my plans were foiled from the start :(

Edited April 11 by Buunatic

[Zakkhar]

Bosses and mini-bosses would lose their boss status if they were fully armor stripable. It is not silly. 

Edited April 11 by Zakkhar

[WindShadow970]

Acolytes I'm not sure about because they can be stripped by every other means available in the game, though:

• Archons cannot be armour stripped by any means
• Demolisher Necramechs can only have up to half their armour stripped

So in those cases it's not Hydroid specific, it's consistent across the board. (which I very much like)

Edited April 11 by WindShadow970

[Buunatic]

8 minutes ago, Zakkhar said:

Bosses and mini-bosses would lose their boss status if they were fully armor stripable. It is not silly. 

Archons sure, but things like the Necramechs and Acolytes? They are easy enough to kill already with good weapons. I don't think being able to fully armour strip them with multiple green shards would break anything.

[Zakkhar]

Just now, Buunatic said:

Necramechs

 

1 minute ago, Buunatic said:

easy enough to kill already

Have you been playing Netracells/DA lately? Because they are not that easy to kill any more. Actually previous week they were completely immortal in Netracells due to nearly instantenous full hp regen.

[Buunatic]

8 minutes ago, WindShadow970 said:

Acolytes I'm not sure about because they can be stripped by every other means available in the game, though:

• Archons cannot be armour stripped by any means
• Demolisher Necramechs can only have up to half their armour stripped

So in those cases it's not Hydroid specific, it's consistent across the board. (which I very much like)

I did not know the Demolisher Necramechs could only be half stripped. I reread their wiki page and from what it says there they can't be armour stripped at all?
As for Acolytes, they can indeed be fully armour stripped by 14 stacks of corrosive like regular enemies. Hydroid's passive just does not work on them. 

[Buunatic]

1 minute ago, Zakkhar said:

 

Have you been playing Netracells/DA lately? Because they are not that easy to kill any more. Actually previous week they were completely immortal in Netracells due to nearly instantenous full hp regen.

Yes, I am up to date with all the new content. In fact I feel like im in the minority with so many people complaining about DA when I don't think it's that bad (certainly harder than most content but doable). I didn't have any problem with immortal Necramechs. But again, having to put 2 Tauforged shards on a Hydroid or 2 Tauforged and 2 regular shards to achieve a full strip seems fine to me. That's a lot of investment on a single frame so that you can full strip them. In the case of DA, you wouldnt even be able to play that specific frame (unless you use your one freebie to choose that Warframe or swap your shards at the cost of a lot of bile).

[Zakkhar]

2 minutes ago, Buunatic said:

it's that bad (certainly harder than most content but doable)

It's cricticm has nothing to do with it being hard. It is the way they are attempting to make it hard. If you roll bad frames/weapons you are completely screwed for the week. 

[Buunatic]

1 minute ago, Zakkhar said:

It's cricticm has nothing to do with it being hard. It is the way they are attempting to make it hard. If you roll bad frames/weapons you are completely screwed for the week. 

Well the purpose of this post is not to be about DA. But for the record I don't think there's such a thing as "rolling bad frames/weapons".
With the freebie and some modding prowess you can make any Warframe and weapon work. I haven't done this weeks DA yet, but last week I made a Loki build specifically for it (Loki being one of the frames that a majority of the player base would consider to be bad) and completed it fairly easily. Now rolling stuff you don't have is a completely different issue. Though I think the mode's target audience is those super endgame players that have amassed a very large collection of weapons and Warframes, so they'd never really run into the problem of not owning weapons to complete the DA.

[WindShadow970]

11 minutes ago, Buunatic said:

I did not know the Demolisher Necramechs could only be half stripped. I reread their wiki page and from what it says there they can't be armour stripped at all?

I noticed it on a few occasions, due to having a companion running Shattering Impact and Vicious bond. I'm not sure which one was working (it may even be a bug :D )

[Buunatic]

10 minutes ago, WindShadow970 said:

I noticed it on a few occasions, due to having a companion running Shattering Impact and Vicious bond. I'm not sure which one was working (it may even be a bug :D )

Doing some more digging, it seems Demolisher Necramechs are COMPLETELY immune to armour strip like Archons. No funny corrosive shenanigans for me. 

[Zakkhar]

16 minutes ago, Buunatic said:

But for the record I don't think there's such a thing as "rolling bad frames/weapons".

But there is, Majority of weapons are mastery fodder and a lot of frames are basically glorified weapon batteries. No amount of investment will make weapons that have no scaling, good.

16 minutes ago, Buunatic said:

With the freebie and some modding prowess you can make any Warframe and weapon work.

I disagree. You could make that work in Circuit due to decrees giving you bonuses, but AD not only doesnt give you bonuses, but also gives you handicaps that affect your build in a major way in addition to enemies being buffed. No amount of modding will make bad weapon viable vs 450 lvl armored enemies.

30 minutes ago, Buunatic said:

I did not know the Demolisher Necramechs could only be half stripped.

They were just introduced in Dante, so it is an entirely new mechanic. I think they are immune to strip after certain hotfix.

Edited April 11 by Zakkhar

[Lunastune]

Voidrigs and Bonewidows cant be stripped of armor from abilities pretty sure, regardless of it being demo or not. Similar to many bosses, though Acolytes don't have ability immunities just Capped Status Procs aka Status Resistance essentially.

While I don't personally really like the bosses being capped to 4 status procs per type interactions like green archon shards help combat against it without just fully negating their durability, letting you get more corrosive stacks. I haven't bothered testing how much armor they can be stripped of i just know archon shards also increase the reduced cap.

This being about boss stuff and not complaining about DA/EDA I'm going to refrain from talking about that, is a separate thing.

They've been trying to combat bosses instantly flopping over dead especially in endgame, see the initial damage attenuation incident with archon hunts and the kuva hek.

[Buunatic]

4 minutes ago, Zakkhar said:

But there is, Majority of weapons are mastery fodder and a lot of frames are basically glorified weapon batteries. No amount of investment will make weapons that have no scaling, good.

But weapons don't have inherent scaling (Except forced slash proc melee weapons I suppose)? Weapon scaling comes from mods. Things like Hunter Munitions, Viral/Heat, and Galv mods. Yes, some weapons have better base stats then others, but what makes a weapon actually kill things is the mods, which you can put on any weapon. Put a good build on a mastery fodder weapon, and use your freebie choice on a frame with Roar or something to help it out and it will kill.

[Buunatic]

2 minutes ago, Lunastune said:

Voidrigs and Bonewidows cant be stripped of armor from abilities pretty sure, regardless of it being demo or not. Similar to many bosses, though Acolytes don't have ability immunities just Capped Status Procs aka Status Resistance essentially.

While I don't personally really like the bosses being capped to 4 status procs per type interactions like green archon shards help combat against it without just fully negating their durability, letting you get more corrosive stacks. I haven't bothered testing how much armor they can be stripped of i just know archon shards also increase the reduced cap.

This being about boss stuff and not complaining about DA/EDA I'm going to refrain from talking about that, is a separate thing.

They've been trying to combat bosses instantly flopping over dead especially in endgame, see the initial damage attenuation incident with archon hunts and the kuva hek.

Yeah, im just kinda frustrated about the immunity to Hydroid's passive. Acolytes can be full stripped with 14 stacks of corrosive, and can be stripped by abilities, so why can't I use Hydroid's passive to strip them at 10 stacks of corrosive? Just seems weird. 

[Zakkhar]

2 hours ago, Buunatic said:

But weapons don't have inherent scaling (Except forced slash proc melee weapons I suppose)

They do. If your base stats suck if you apply certain modifiers to those stat the final result will still suck. These weapon often have no crit scaling, no status, low base damage, low attack speed/fire rate.

To give you an example.

Last week I had the Primary choice between: Javlok, Harpak and Scourge. Not only I have none of these weapons set up (because they suck), but also they suck. So that cuts my Primary slot entirely. On secondaries I had Acrid, Twin Rogga and Furis. I do not think I even still own those. Yes, Furis has an incarnon, but that is an investment I do not need. Melees I do not remember, but they were so trash I decided to pick my own. On frame to chose from I had Ember, Frost and Rhino. Tried Ember, but she did not work well in first mission (with enemies immune to damage and constant energy drain), so I just grabbed Rhino (which I do not have a build for, just slapped some mods to increase Iron Skin) and my trusty melee. If I had all squishy frames to choose from I would be toast.

[Zakkhar]

2 hours ago, Buunatic said:

Weapon scaling comes from mods. Things like Hunter Munitions, Viral/Heat, and Galv mods. Yes, some weapons have better base stats then others, but what makes a weapon actually kill things is the mods, which you can put on any weapon. 

To scale something it has to be already high so the mods actually do something. Low crit? No hunter mu. Low status/slow firing? No Viral/Heat. In my country we have this saying: (losely translated) "you won't make a whip out of poop".

2 hours ago, Buunatic said:

Put a good build on a mastery fodder weapon, and use your freebie choice on a frame with Roar or something to help it out and it will kill.

I envy your optymism. This may work fine in basic starchart, maybe arbi/sortie. But SP and beyond is uncharted territory.