Please shorten the duration of Undercroft Survival

[JirB30]

Every other undercroft version of an endless mode just goes on for the equivalent of 3 waves while survival keeps you there for a full 5 minute rotation, it just feels too long. 3 minutes would feel more in line with the others.

[Zakkhar]

But  then it would need any surviving, would it? They would have to cut the Life Support drop again and people would complain again.

[Fred_Avant_2019]

3 waves of defense or 3 excavators may be shorter at lower levels, but once enemies scaled a bit, 5 mins of survival is reliably shorter. Have one excavator break on you and you're already taking longer. It's not that bad.

[JirB30]

On 2024-04-12 at 10:24 PM, Fred_Avant_2019 said:

3 waves of defense or 3 excavators may be shorter at lower levels, but once enemies scaled a bit, 5 mins of survival is reliably shorter. Have one excavator break on you and you're already taking longer. It's not that bad.

I have not experienced them taking that long even on higher levels unless I've rolled bad stuff(in which case I would rarely do longer runs) but even if they did at least how long they take can be influenced by how well you perform. If they take long that's on you while survival always takes 5 minutes. Also even if the others consistently take more than 5 minutes on higher levels it isn't an excuse since you can get survival before hitting those levels.

[Fred_Avant_2019]

Il y a 6 heures, JirB30 a dit :

I have not experienced them taking that long even on higher levels unless I've rolled bad stuff(in which case I would rarely do longer runs) but even if they did at least how long they take can be influenced by how well you perform. If they take long that's on you while survival always takes 5 minutes. Also even if the others consistently take more than 5 minutes on higher levels it isn't an excuse since you can get survival before hitting those levels.

It's not that you "can" get a survival before hitting those levels, you will, all modes rotate in the same fashion. When you're nearing the thousands on steel path enemy levels, they tend to deal with Excavators in a matter of 2~3 hits, should you not have a Frost/Limbo in your team, stray bullets are quick to happen, even more so when you consider objectives have a higher aggro rate than players, doesn't matter how well you perform : if you can prevent the bullet from hitting, one way or another you're fine, if not, you're gonna sit there for a while longer. Not only that, but Excavator spots can range from edge of map easy to defend to middle of the map where you're completely surrounded.

5 mins of survival is still reasonable.

[JirB30]

14 hours ago, Fred_Avant_2019 said:

It's not that you "can" get a survival before hitting those levels, you will, all modes rotate in the same fashion. When you're nearing the thousands on steel path enemy levels, they tend to deal with Excavators in a matter of 2~3 hits, should you not have a Frost/Limbo in your team, stray bullets are quick to happen, even more so when you consider objectives have a higher aggro rate than players, doesn't matter how well you perform : if you can prevent the bullet from hitting, one way or another you're fine, if not, you're gonna sit there for a while longer. Not only that, but Excavator spots can range from edge of map easy to defend to middle of the map where you're completely surrounded.

5 mins of survival is still reasonable.

I'm not sure how this is a response to what I said. I said 5 minute survival happens on earlier levels and take the same amount of time so even if you considered it a fair amount of time compared to the other modes at later levels it's not still not a fair amount of time at earlier levels making it take longer to get to those levels. This is especially punishing if you can't stay long enough for whatever reason or you're doing Duviri portals.

In addition even at later levels the speed at which every other mode is done is dependent on how well you perform except survival which is why it should be roughly the length of another mode performed relatively well which I think is roughly 3 or 4 minutes. If it's impossible to perform well enough in other modes due to something like enemies doing too much damage to excavators then that is an issue in and of itself if you ask me.

Edited April 23 by JirB30

[Fred_Avant_2019]

il y a une heure, JirB30 a dit :

I'm not sure how this is a response to what I said. I said 5 minute survival happens on earlier levels and take the same amount of time so even if you considered it a fair amount of time compared to the other modes at later levels it's not still not a fair amount of time at earlier levels making it take longer to get to those levels. This is especially punishing if you can't stay long enough for whatever reason or you're doing Duviri portals.

In addition even at later levels the speed at which every other mode is done is dependent on how well you perform except survival which is why it should be roughly the length of another mode performed relatively well which I think is roughly 3 or 4 minutes. If it's impossible to perform well enough in other modes due to something like enemies doing too much damage to excavators then that is an issue in and of itself if you ask me.

I'm not exactly against the idea of decreasing Survival duration in the Circuit but...

Excavators need 100 seconds each, one spawns every minute, so at the fastest time possible, the third one spawns on the 120th second and is done by the 220th, that's 3min and 40seconds for the strictly fastest run possible where none get destroyed.

Assassination is unlikely done under 3 minutes due to the forced downtime of the Jackal spinning about, parazon stab and teleportation and enemies to kill. Even if you oneshot a health segment from it (which you absolutely can with good setups), you can't avoid that time.

Void Flood needs you to close 5 gates, which can take more than a minute each if you're in a squad due to Vitoplast requirements being scaled up.

All that's left aside from Survival is Exterminate and Defense, which rely on your kill speed but also on spawn rates and terrain, the latter two which can get in your way, although Exterminate's spawn is constant and does not have a downtime between waves and enemies aren't stuck trying to pathfind up slopes.

 

All things considered, I don't think Survival is as far apart from other gamemodes to the point it would take one or two more minutes on average. If you find it to be long, it's more of a perception thing, because you can see it actually tick on your screen, while the gamemode isn't exactly "demanding" on your attention. Someone could record themselves doing a decent steel path run and compare mission times per type and it probably wouldn't be such a huge gap. Except Exterminate for aforementioned reasons.

 

Could it be shortened? Probably, but I don't think it's a necessity either. If Mobile Defense had made it into the gamemode, there would've been only up to 30 seconds between the two, 5 minutes per rotation is pretty standard across mission types.

 

If anything, I'd be up for more different gamemodes, Disruption, Mobile Defense, Interception and Hijack could definitely be added to the Circuit to give a little more variety. Void Armageddon and Void Cascade could work too. Even Mirror Defense could work if you limited it to two minutes per area.