Dual Weapon Versus Single Weapon Balance

[Azamagon]

Alright, now I'm starting to get really irritated by how DE balances their weapons. This thread is gonna ignore how individual weapon balancing is handled, and instead focus on something else: Dual vs Single weapon balance.

 

Dual Pistols vs Single Pistol

This is how I would see them working:

* The Pistols, in either version, should have similar stats regarding damage, crit and status. You still fire the exact same type of bullet after all.

* Single Pistols should be faster to reload and more accurate than Dual Pistols.

* Dual Pistols should have higher rate of fire and double the magsize of Single Pistols.

* This means you trade reload and accuracy contra fire rate and magsize for single contra dual. This makes them sidegrades, with a slight favor towards dual pistols. Which is good, considering dual pistols are more expensive to make.

 

So far, this has held true for all pistols. But now you have AkLex, which has higher critical chance and status chance than single versions. Why? That is unnecessary!

 

Also, Lato contra AkLato. If you look at AkLato, you see reasonable stats. But now look at the single Lato... It has HALF the damage of the AkLato. This MUST be an oversight or a bug!

 

Dual Melee vs Single Melee

This is how I would see them working:

* Single melee weapons should have their normal attacks hit decently hard, at a medium rate, while the chargeattacks should also hit decently hard, once again at a medium rate. Average on both attackmodes.

* Dual melee weapons on the other hand should have their normal attacks be faster, although weaker, while the chargeattacks should hit very hard, although at a slow rate. Weak and spammy regulars, slow and powerful charges.

This makes sense due to with regular attacks you can only use one hand per weapon to empower it, thus they are weaker on hit, but since you hold two of them, you can strike faster with them. Chargeattacks on the other hand requires you to charge longer since the strike method is actually slower to perform (in IRL too), but with the benefit of two weapons striking at once, thus a harder strike.

* Both single melee and dual melee weapons should have multihitting capabilities! (This should ring true for EVERY melee weapon imo though) This makes single versus dual a matter of style, rather than a case of viability vs unviability. Once again though, dual weapons should still be in a slight advantage, as they should have a bit higher DPS on their regular attack and chargeattacks should have a bit better burstdamage and DPS, both compared to single variants. Why? Since dual weapons require more materials and time to get a hold of them. But their advantages shouldn't be vastly better either.

 

Now, how is the balance here though? It was quite bad before (dual versions had pure advantage, but that is at least somewhat justified by the whole "more cost for more power" idea), but now things are even worse with the Kama vs Dual Kama in the other direction: Dual Kama is worse in almost every way than the single Kama (except that Dual Kama has more Slash than single Kama, for some stupid reason), with none of the above described characteristics to seperate the single vs dual version either...

 

Why, oh WHY, can't you ever find a good middleground DE?

 

EDIT:

Polarities (Thanks for reminding me TenkoTenko!)

Something else that is an annoying inconsistency for single vs dual weapons (both for melee and pistols) is the differences in polarities! Why can't the single and dual versions have the same (amount and type of) polarities? What's the point? Is it just a stupid Forma-selling-scheme? (Dual weapons these days tend to have NO polarities at all, while single versions have one or two polarities. Before, single vs dual weapons were far more equal)

DE, why can't you even... I don't... just... *sigh*

Edited November 29, 2013 by Azamagon

[Azamagon]

BUMP!

[TenkoTenko]

Apparently requiring a blueprint and Orokin Cell is some sort of legitimate excuse to make dual-wield variants much stronger than single-wield variants. Our Tenno engineers suspect that this may be due to the Orokin Cell used in the construction process somehow amplifying the spiritual energy radiated from each weapon and combining it to release some sort of pulse that increases the weapon's power. Originally, the Orokin Cell used in the dual-wield weapon blueprints was used to power the Time Machine that would send the Tenno back in time so he could give the second gun to his past self so he could hold two weapons at once, but it seems that Orokin technology is capable of much more than that.

 

 

idk about Dual Kama, but those Circuits and loss of polarities make me =/

[LordMelvin]

I could maybe understand a slight damage bump for something like Dual Vasto or Twin Vipers since you actually need to craft both weapons separately before crafting the akimbo version, but you can buy two Lex for less money than building a Warframe (and considerably less time). Give the Lex the higher stats to represent properly aimed shots. The double mag size on akLex should make up for the decreased status chance(twice as many shots).

And I can't explain Kama. Maybe they were worried about people not selling their houses to buy the Stalker pack

[lautalocos]

i think the lex should have the crit chance and proc chance that the aklex has.

 

also, i agree with you. all dual weapons should be like that.

 

still, there is something you have to think about. the aklex gives you a few seconds of great DPS, with the reload time being a complete 3 seconds nightmare in which you are helpless. thelex has less DPS, but it is more stable, because the reload time is shorter (still a nightmare though)

[Azamagon]

Apparently requiring a blueprint and Orokin Cell is some sort of legitimate excuse to make dual-wield variants much stronger than single-wield variants. Our Tenno engineers suspect that this may be due to the Orokin Cell used in the construction process somehow amplifying the spiritual energy radiated from each weapon and combining it to release some sort of pulse that increases the weapon's power. Originally, the Orokin Cell used in the dual-wield weapon blueprints was used to power the Time Machine that would send the Tenno back in time so he could give the second gun to his past self so he could hold two weapons at once, but it seems that Orokin technology is capable of much more than that.

 

 

idk about Dual Kama, but those Circuits and loss of polarities make me =/

Heh, amusing ^^ Well, the crafting for dual weapons actually doesn't bother me so much (except the credit costs, urgh!), it's just a "gamey" kind of balance that simply... works, imo.

But the damagenumbers (as you so hilariously put it) needs an explanation such as yours to make sense xD (Meaning, it doesn't make sense...)

 

Thanks for pointing out the polarities! I'm gonna add that as another inconsistency too! *sigh* -.-

 

I could maybe understand a slight damage bump for something like Dual Vasto or Twin Vipers since you actually need to craft both weapons separately before crafting the akimbo version, but you can buy two Lex for less money than building a Warframe (and considerably less time). Give the Lex the higher stats to represent properly aimed shots. The double mag size on akLex should make up for the decreased status chance(twice as many shots).

And I can't explain Kama. Maybe they were worried about people not selling their houses to buy the Stalker pack

I do NOT understand the damage bumps. They are still the SAME GUNS! Fire rate being not exactly double on dual weapons, sure, it makes some sort of sense, as you could tinker with the weapons' firing mechanics to make them slower or faster (it exists in real life and is also almost NECESSARY for the sake of balance and anti-bullet-wasting in weapons such as the Afuris and Twin Vipers), but damage/crit/status? Nope, sorry, that's something you shouldn't be messing with. Makes very little sense to me.

 

1) i think the lex should have the crit chance and proc chance that the aklex has.

 

also, i agree with you. all dual weapons should be like that.

 

2) still, there is something you have to think about. the aklex gives you a few seconds of great DPS, with the reload time being a complete 3 seconds nightmare in which you are helpless. thelex has less DPS, but it is more stable, because the reload time is shorter (still a nightmare though)

1) Like I said, individual balancing is not the matter of this thread (even though I agreed that the Lex should get the same boosts to crit and status as the AkLex), it's the lack of CONSISTENCY that bothers me so much. Why did they make their status and crit-numbers different in the first place? It's completely illogical and unnecessary!

 

2) About the Lex contra AkLex advantages regarding DPS and reloadtimes... Well, yeah, that's exactly what I already said in my initial post about Single vs Dual pistols... >_>