Duviri Circuit Missions - Defence and Excavation

[TheShadyJester]

The base for my understanding is that Duviri is supposed to be a gamemode where you can challenge yourself with going long and reap additional rewards in the form of higher EXP-yield to your Circuit Pass. I think this is a great basis for a teamgame.

As you continue playing through the missions the difficulty is increased. It doesn't take vast amounts of time until you start meeting mobs which are over level 1000.
And it is not too hard to defeat those mobs either with the decrees you get. If you get the right decrees you can become a powerhouse; which is quite fun.

In many ways; The Circuit becomes more fun the longer you stay. Warframe-players are mostly veteran videogame-enthusiasts who enjoys challenges.

But The Circuit has a "check" which limits progress. Mainly that "check" is the defence mission. It is impossible without the correct warframe on the team; such as Frost.
Each player gets to choose between 3-5 warframes, which leans the propability of both a player being presented with a viable option, and selecting that option, to low.

A mob will delete the objective in under 10 seconds in the later stages. This is also partially true for Excavation, but "fortunately" it is not gated by allowing as many tries for excavations as you want.

I would like DE to reconsider having Defence as a mission in Duviri. There are so many options of gamemodes which could replace it.

Edited August 21 by TheShadyJester

[Zakkhar]

2 hours ago, TheShadyJester said:

It is impossible without the correct warframe on the team; such as Frost.

Skill issue.

2 hours ago, TheShadyJester said:

A mob will delete the objective in under 10 seconds in the later stages.

There is no incentive to stay to later stages other than to test yourself. 

 

 

[TheShadyJester]

30 minutes ago, Zakkhar said:

Skill issue.

There is no incentive to stay to later stages other than to test yourself. 

https://forums.warframe.com/guidelines/

[kadlis12]

Well, I think it was on Monday when I happened to participate in a longer run. A thrall past 4k lvl could one-shot the digger... luckily, it does not seem you are limited in the amounts of excavators you can try - so excavation is not a bad design, quite the contrary - it forces the whole group to patrol all junctions and punishes even the slightiest mistakes.

Defense is different, you have just one try - but you do not have to feed it and you can spread the team before the fight begins. I consider it a worse situation, but manageable.

But Frost? Like, the dome? Nope, that does not have a fraction of HP that would mean something. The secret is in annihilating the enemy before they enter the fire range. There sure are other means to attract enemy attention away from the target which help a lot, but the globe is not that. And generally, I consider missions where you need to carry items harder. Especially Achemy - that is a lot of carrying.

[TheShadyJester]

1 hour ago, kadlis12 said:

Well, I think it was on Monday when I happened to participate in a longer run. A thrall past 4k lvl could one-shot the digger... luckily, it does not seem you are limited in the amounts of excavators you can try - so excavation is not a bad design, quite the contrary - it forces the whole group to patrol all junctions and punishes even the slightiest mistakes.

Defense is different, you have just one try - but you do not have to feed it and you can spread the team before the fight begins. I consider it a worse situation, but manageable.

But Frost? Like, the dome? Nope, that does not have a fraction of HP that would mean something. The secret is in annihilating the enemy before they enter the fire range. There sure are other means to attract enemy attention away from the target which help a lot, but the globe is not that. And generally, I consider missions where you need to carry items harder. Especially Achemy - that is a lot of carrying.

Thanks for the input!

I share your opinion that it's manageable to some degree. Especially with the excavation. 

Whenever I go for longer runs it seems the team usually default to extraction when the defence-mission comes around. It just is too much of a challenge to concider trying.

The game mode "Ascension" and the protection at the end seems like it could be a good alternative, and is somewhat similar to defence. In that gamemode the punishment for not defending is that the mission takes longer if the objective is knocked. Something like that would be a good solution to the defence mission.

Adding a bigger pool of variation in the missions for The Circuit would be a welcome improvement.

[TheShadyJester]

2 hours ago, Zakkhar said:

There is no incentive to stay to later stages other than to test yourself. 

Working to keep the round 5 bonus is a incentive to continue, and to plan accordingly.

[Zakkhar]

2 hours ago, TheShadyJester said:

4 hours ago, Zakkhar said:

There is no incentive to stay to later stages other than to test yourself. 

Working to keep the round 5 bonus is a incentive to continue, and to plan accordingly.

There is no round 5 bonus. The bonus is daily and awarded for finishing round 4. It is permament and doesnt need any maintainace. 

In addition to the above rewards, completion of subsequent stages in a run grants Circuit Progress to claim tier rewards.

• Stage 1: 100 Circuit Progress
• Stage 2: 110 Circuit Progress
• Stage 3: 125 Circuit Progress
• Stage 4: 145 Circuit Progress
  • Also awards an additional 50 Circuit Progress once per day.
• Stage 5 and onwards: 170 Circuit Progress

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/The_Circuit#Tiers_and_Weekly_Rewards

The rounds go slower and the progress doesnt. You should measure your team performance and once it slows down or cant handle the enemies as smoothly as before you need to jet (especially if you get a round that is failable, you can see the mode before the decision whether to conttinue or not). Past round 4 you get additionall 50 Progress per round (170 compared to average 120 from first 4 rounds completed). Going past round 10 (depending on the team) is usually a  bad idea.

 

[kadlis12]

1 hour ago, Zakkhar said:

You should measure your team performance and once it slows down or cant handle the enemies as smoothly as before you need to jet (especially if you get a round that is failable, you can see the mode before the decision whether to conttinue or not).

There is no longer any penalty for giving it a try and failing. (you keep rewards up to that point)

[Zakkhar]

8 minutes ago, kadlis12 said:

There is no longer any penalty for giving it a try and failing. (you keep rewards up to that point)

Wasted time (compared to restarting) is not a penalty? Remember to count the time of the failed mission as well.

Edited August 21 by Zakkhar

[L3512]

40 minutes ago, Zakkhar said:

Wasted time (compared to restarting) is not a penalty? Remember to count the time of the failed mission as well.

Well see the problem here is most likely

6 hours ago, Zakkhar said:

Skill issue.

No reason at all to do short runs.

[kadlis12]

8 hours ago, Zakkhar said:

There is no incentive to stay to later stages other than to test yourself.

 

2 hours ago, Zakkhar said:

Wasted time (compared to restarting) is not a penalty? Remember to count the time of the failed mission as well.

Man, make up your mind. Is there, or is there not any incentive other than to test yourself?

edit: To word it less confrontationally - there is clearly an incentive unless your time to finish is increasing or you risk failure. In my experience, time to finish does not increase except Excavation, or maybe Alchemy - but that is more of a risk of failure.

Edited August 21 by kadlis12

[Zakkhar]

1 hour ago, kadlis12 said:

9 hours ago, Zakkhar said:

There is no incentive to stay to later stages other than to test yourself.

3 hours ago, Zakkhar said:

Wasted time (compared to restarting) is not a penalty? Remember to count the time of the failed mission as well.

Man, make up your mind. Is there, or is there not any incentive other than to test yourself?

If in your opinion these are contradicting statements, I have no idea what to tell you.

1 hour ago, kadlis12 said:

To word it less confrontationally - there is clearly an incentive unless your time to finish is increasing or you risk failure.

Bro, now you just rephrase what I wrote before:

5 hours ago, Zakkhar said:

The rounds go slower and the progress doesnt. You should measure your team performance and once it slows down or cant handle the enemies as smoothly as before you need to jet (especially if you get a round that is failable, you can see the mode before the decision whether to conttinue or not). Past round 4 you get additionall 50 Progress per round (170 compared to average 120 from first 4 rounds completed). Going past round 10 (depending on the team) is usually a  bad idea.

Later stages point will be different for everyone. Here is the ~lvl scaling of SP Circuit:

Stage - Level - Point per progress

1 - 130 - 100

2 - 131 - 110

3 - 139 -125

4 - 165 - 145

5 - 220 - 170

6 - 316 - 170

7 - 468 - 170 

8 - 687 - 170

9 - 991 - 170

10 - 1392 - 170

11 - 1908 - 170

12 - 2553 - 170

13 - 3346 - 170

14 - 4301 - 170

15 - 5437 - 170

16 - 6771 - 170 

17 - 8322 - 170

18 - 9999 - 170

19+ as 18

Why would anyone, whose main motivation is progress ever go to later stages? Where is the incentive? By the time it gets even to 19th stage you could do 40 stages if restarted (eg 4x10). That is about twice as much progress per time spent.

 

Edited August 21 by Zakkhar

[kadlis12]

42 minutes ago, Zakkhar said:

Why would anyone, whose main motivation is progress ever go to later stages? Where is the incentive? By the time it gets even to 19th stage you could do 40 stages if restarted (eg 4x10). That is about twice as much progress per time spent.

How do 5 mins at stage one take less time than 5 mins at stage 10? 5 mins is 5 mins for survival. 3 rounds is 3 rounds for defense. Picking up orbs? Nah, the enemy level does not affect the time there either.

It is hard to drag with exterminate. The same for Alchemy. You are simply dead if you fool around. You can fail it, not drag it.

You can drag Excavation - yes. That is the only one.

So, you get more progress than starting anew at the same time. Bonus, you already have some perks that make you a better cookie. Stopping the chain makes sense only if you need to go, you do not wish more progress or you are prone to dying. (edit: or the next stage is Excavation for length or Alchemy for inability to carry the vials)

It does not take more time, it awards more progress, and your build is more effective - that is the incentive, apart from testing yourself.

Edited August 21 by kadlis12

[TheShadyJester]

I'd like to point out that "the challenge" itself is a good enough reason for continueing. In fact it is to some level of degree the reason that anyone plays videogames. 

Having "skill issues" was a early point here- but arguing for extraction because it's easier that way is in fact also "skill issue".

What I would like to see is an improvement so that the different modes while posing challenge, also presents an "equal" amount of challenge compared to the progress you've made.
Right now, my opinion, is that some of the modes are much harder than the remaining pool at the same level. That's literally the mission-types being "unbalanced".

Edited August 22 by TheShadyJester