My Oberon Rework!

[WisdomOfTheWoods]

On 2024-09-05 at 4:22 AM, AngeloTheBuck said:

Would like to have more skins from him <3

An Oberon coven skin has been floating around the tennogen for a while now. It has a cult following of people who check the player's darling choices for potential tennogen inserts. The first version was rejected but the author is trying to remake it in light of the support.

[dwqrf]

Le 05/09/2024 à 02:01, AngeloTheBuck a dit :

Caliban passive, Adaptation

Just saying, they don't stack.

[WisdomOfTheWoods]

20 hours ago, AngeloTheBuck said:

I think increasing status chance for his HG, corrosive would be a nice choice. Combining green shards to get armor strip with 14 corrosive stacks could make this ability extremly good with multiple Hollowed Grounds.

Meanwhile heat would be better and can combine with his 4th doing another 50% armor reduction.

For me, radiation is perfect for CC. Oberon has a huge impact with this, specially on survivability, mobile defense, excavation. But for defense this can be very problematic, so having like "hold" to cast HG with corrosive or heat instead of radiation is better, making his ability more versatile.

Or maybe changing radiation to slow down enemies on HG. But honestly I dont care, I just want a buff or rework to my boi. DE will choose what to do with Oberon, so for the moment we need to make noise. So I'm glad people like you make posts like this

Honestly, status add-ons to hallowed ground might make sense, but changing Oberon's basekit too much will be problematic. Things like shards, mods, augments, interactions, and the original design goal of the set have to be considered before making any changes as significant as, say, Hydroid. It is one of those things to where large "what could be good..." change ideas would have to be followed by a very long "because of this".

Changing, or even just adding to, the stats on something is easy, relative to changing whole mechanics.

I would frankly suggest to people who want smite changed into a whole other ability to learn extensively about it first. I personally don't want to see smite changed into something completely different, as it is arguably one of the most powerful abilities in Oberon's kit right now.

[AngeloTheBuck]

hace 5 horas, WisdomOfTheWoods dijo:

This is honestly a valid point, and is what I had meant with health-tanking being dated. To even consider the hypothetical of levelcap with reliance on health, there needs to be about this much amount of investment just to survive... compared to shields or overguard requiring much less to scale better, for the sole exception of toxin damage. While many health-tanking builds can still technically do the latest content, we are starting to see scenarios where its no longer unreasonable to find generally well-invested, single-player-reliant, health-tanking builds buckle under the weight of things like SP circuit, arcamedia/elite, and IMO most notoriously for this list, BotB.

DR being added will only be a stopgap if average enemy damage follows the powercreep.

Overguard will make Renewal irrelevant knowing that it gives you armor like his 4th augment. The same happens to any warframe based on armor. Having this in mind, there's no sense to have armor in this game and only focus on shield gating or overguard.

Every time I'm on a team where there is a warfame, be it Frost, Dante or Styanax, that gives me overguard, I deactivate Renewal, because what do I benefit from this ability? Armor doesnt have effect on it, neither health regeneration. But yeah, changing this ability to only give overguard because armor is now irrelevant will change completely the mechaninc and concept of Oberon. So nope, I dont agree with Overguard.

DE has shot itself in the foot, because thanks to the introduction of being able to get overguard it has made many bases irrelevant. I wouldn't support the idea of adding overguard to armor-based warframes like Oberon and Chroma, because all you would be doing is making their abilities & damage reduction strategy irrelevant.

Since DE is focusing on very high-level challenging content, something should be done about all of this.

Anyway, I mentioned it because I wanted to make it clear that there is the possibility of not using overguard or shield gating basing on just damage reduction. Although it uses more resources, it is possible that one day it will be more accessible, but who knows, at this point there's a lot of things that have to be rebalanced and fixed.

En 4/9/2024 a las 23:05, AngeloTheBuck dijo:

You're talking like shield gating is a must and any other way is never, same with status resistance. This game has a lot of resources to make things work. I told all of that to make you understand armor is still a good resource of survivability and damage reduction too

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hace 4 horas, WisdomOfTheWoods dijo:

An Oberon coven skin has been floating around the tennogen for a while now. It has a cult following of people who check the player's darling choices for potential tennogen inserts. The first version was rejected but the author is trying to remake it in light of the support.

Didnt know about it! what a shame :(

 

hace 4 horas, WisdomOfTheWoods dijo:

I would frankly suggest to people who want smite changed into a whole other ability to learn extensively about it first. I personally don't want to see smite changed into something completely different, as it is arguably one of the most powerful abilities in Oberon's kit right now.

Honestly I dont get why do you say its the most powerful ability? do you have any video of it? please, because I did like 10 different builds trying to make that damn ability to work. But if its only powerfull on acolytes or demolisher, thats very niche and only good for specific moments.

Edited September 7 by AngeloTheBuck

[Weilerkhan]

5 hours ago, WisdomOfTheWoods said:

Dude, I know you can say whatever you want, cause yes, but why are you even here? The point of this at the end of the day is a work-shopping of ideas to potentially make Oberon better in light of the shortcomings. That is like, y'know, the point of actually investing time into a frame is to see how far it goes, and a workshop for potential buffs would be what would make it go further.

Im sorry, but I dont really understand what you want from me.

I agree, workshopping him to be better is what this is for.

Thats why in my first message in the thread I explained some issues with your rework I saw, and suggested some chance.

Currently he's not good, not even close, a thing you'd probably agree with, seeing as you think he might be in need of a rework.

But reworking him necessitates a understanding why he is bad, lacking that understanding you won't be able to fix him.

Guy above seemed to not have it.

I explained to the best of my ability, why what would work in regards to the rework, and why what would need to be changed from it or normal oberon, he still didnt seem to get it and continued to fight a, in my opinion, lot of nonsensical points.

So I clarified my position again, that the warframe is currently in a very bad spot, which he in parts seemed to imply wasn't the case, before conceding to end a conversation which was obviously leading nowhere.

Currently running the risk of repeating myself, but if you want my oberon fix:

I like your buffs for his one, they may just be a little too big for a first ability.

Shift some power around.

2 wasnt very good, because all it does his reworked 1 and 4 would do better.

We can keep the support-aoe, but it has to do different stuff.

Health tanking just isn't that great nowadays.

To a point, where even if we gave it a lot more power, we can still keep the heal to fit his theme, if its that important to people. It doesn't really matter, barely has an impact, so why not let it stick around for the roleplay I guess.

Increase status damage on enemys, damage dealt by teammates standing in it, make it help shieldgate, regen energy, whatever. Give it knockdown immunity in addition to general status immunity. Things like that, probably multiple of them.

The 3 needs to go. Or all of it can stay, I kind of don't care. Its too weak to matter, something that comes up a lot with Oberon, in my opinion.

Might've mentioned it a few times already, probably will do so a few more times, mostly because Im a bit tired, so exuse me for the probably repetetive writing.

Backing up to my Issues with the 3:

Even with the augment, its useless. Revenant literally does the same just infinetely better with mesmer skin and its mod. Permanent immortality, rather then for 1 guy every one and a half minutes. Gara with her Shattering Storm. theres so many frames that arent even supports that can just do its job 10 times over with some neat buffs on top.

Maybe make it aplly to allies, completely absorb damage for some time, then give them a few appropriately strong buffs.

Kind of like harrows four.

Again, the revive on the augment is so weak, we can literally just make it base-kit and keep it on, no matter how much we buff the thing, because it doesn't matter.

Sentimental value secured on that one as well, if it really needs to be kept around.

4 with armor shred is good, but id make it defense shred like a lot of other modern frames have, so it gets rid of shields as well. Maybe make oberon immortal during cast so he doesnt have to waste a bunch of slots on cast speed and gets more survivable, essentially allow him to use it as a panic button like rolling guard, kullervos 1, excaliburs 1, et cetera.

These would be my suggestions.

Health stuff can just stay on, no matter what else we do, cause it doesnt matter.

Revive can be made base kit and stay, doesnt matter.

Same goes for armor buffs and status resist. Barely matters.

Just keep them around, ad a bunch of buffs, and bring him up to speed with other more modern frames.

he stays a support, but now has actual use, and gets to keep all the old stuff around, without turning busted, for the old mains that care about it.

Im not trying to be dismissive by the way, just in case it comes off like that because I keep saying what he does now barely has any weight of what we can add to him, it just genuinely kind of doesn't.

Damage reduction is just overshadowed by a bunch of immortality tools, so even if you want to lazy-tank, going for anything but that is a waste of time.

He needs new stuff.

Edited September 7 by Weilerkhan

[AngeloTheBuck]

hace 4 horas, dwqrf dijo:

Just saying, they don't stack.

I would love having 140% damage reduction lol

but that's not the case, like titania had with Aviadator + Iron clad flight + Aerodynamic at the beggining

[WisdomOfTheWoods]

34 minutes ago, AngeloTheBuck said:

Honestly I dont get why do you say its the most powerful ability? do you have any video of it? please, because I did like 10 different builds trying to make that damn ability to work. But if its only powerfull on acolytes or demolisher, thats very niche and only good for specific moments.

The wisps from smite do a total of 35% of the enemy's health + shields split between all of the wisps, ability strength only changes the wisp amount, and though its scaling damage, it is not true damage and is affected by armor DR. Those three caveats are what makes this ability seem moot to a lot of people... however, with a setup that can actually spare energy for 2 + 4 for the armor strip, and keeping in mind that strength scaling, this becomes more impressive.

What makes the build even MORE impressive is that the smite wisps are considered projectiles and are buffed by damage sources like vigor swap, aracane arach, viral procs, and tauforged orange shards. The tauforged orange shards are multiplicative of the final damage, even after the other damage bonuses are calculated. And remember, this is multiplying a percent of total shields and health.

A way of accomplishing this, is to use an efficiency/energy regen build with overextended and precision intensify. Reckoning has enough to still comfortably strip after 2 casts, if not one with a str lean, and the neg strength actually makes each wisp do MORE damage, since the number is not divided too much. There are other ways, such as with a breech surge build, a roar build, an arachne build, an eclipse build, so on and so forth.

My recent tests with breech surge + arachne had smite wisps spawning breech wisps hitting ~10mil on lv 165 steel path eximuses, and this is scaling damage.

I am not saying its "OP", but it is a slept-on ability for what it can do. A QoL to other abilities like reckoning would be plenty for a QoL on smite, since it would make this key synergy easier. Honestly, however, this method is slower to other existing forms of this like Sevagoth's reap+sow, Trinity's vampire+marked, or Revenant's reave.

[WisdomOfTheWoods]

57 minutes ago, Weilerkhan said:

Im not trying to be dismissive by the way, just in case it comes off like that because I keep saying what he does now barely has any weight of what we can add to him, it just genuinely kind of doesn't.

Damage reduction is just overshadowed by a bunch of immortality tools, so even if you want to lazy-tank, going for anything but that is a waste of time.

He needs new stuff.

3rd ability, squeaky wheel.

His 1st, 2nd, and 4th as a full kit just needs some quality of life changes to make it about as seamless as utilizing reap and sow on sevagoth, but renewal does not help with that QoL efficiency at all, or making Oberon "tanky" enough for the current game roadmap.

I agree with a lot of your points, but you were being melodramatic back there.

[Weilerkhan]

13 minutes ago, WisdomOfTheWoods said:

3rd ability, squeaky wheel.

His 1st, 2nd, and 4th as a full kit just needs some quality of life changes to make it about as seamless as utilizing reap and sow on sevagoth, but renewal does not help with that QoL efficiency at all, or making Oberon "tanky" enough for the current game roadmap.

I agree with a lot of your points, but you were being melodramatic back there.

I genuinely disagree.

I think most of his ability's are in a pretty bad spot, the 3 especially, that things wretched, and some QoL-Changes wont make him any good. Hes a little, just very slightly, above the place where old Hydroid used to be, in my opinion.

But if you like what he does at this point enough to just want a few adjustments, who am I to disagree.

Take out the ol` Cowberon Prime and spam a few Hallowed Pastures.

Im not all too Invested in him, just think it'd be sad to see him go back to the dungeons of obscurity the same way Inaros did after they finally decide to give him the time of day.

[WisdomOfTheWoods]

19 minutes ago, Weilerkhan said:

I genuinely disagree.

I think most of his ability's are in a pretty bad spot, the 3 especially, that things wretched, and some QoL-Changes wont make him any good. Hes a little, just very slightly, above the place where old Hydroid used to be, in my opinion.

20 minutes ago, Weilerkhan said:

Im not all too Invested in him, just think it'd be sad to see him go back to the dungeons of obscurity the same way Inaros did after they finally decide to give him the time of day.

The idea of 1 being the kill, and 2 + 4 being the primer still carries some weight to this day, and with a bit of QoL with this synergy. Reckoning being more useful in of itself, hallowed having some extra features and possibly a completely different augment, and smite possibly being that damage amount per wisp rather than in total are all enough to make those abilities in the basekit shine and might possibly make Oberon the frame DPS frames are compared to...

...Renewal is a channeling ability with mediocre scaling (as in, tauforged blue shards for regen/armor have the same scaling for tauforged red shards for ability strength). In order to make it worth it in general content that can actually consistently break through base shields, it pretty much has to be the focus of the build.

...In hindsight, Hydroid is a good comparison. the 3 on Hydroid was in the same place the 3 on Oberon: It had basically no compatibility with the rest of the kit. While the concept was interesting, it was just poorly executed as a channeling that removes enemy hitboxes, and makes it WAY more difficult than Oberon to actually get energy. Now, the 3rd is a buff that synergizes with his current focus as the corrosive king.

At this point I probably sound like a broken record, but the basekit is by no means irredeemable, and can actually do a lot of interesting things as it is. Buffs to the basekit would be easier, cleaner, and possibly bring about a positive catch-22 of people coming to the realization that renewal is not the only important ability on Oberon.