Please Buff The Embolist Asap.

[Empiren]

Oh my goodness...did I not just generalize the buffs that Armor 2.0 gave the Embolist?

 

Is your brain so simple that you cannot understand that I acknowledged all buffs regarding 2.0?

 

Are you kidding me right now?

 

Do I really need to type a sentence saying,"HURR HURR TOXIC DAMAGE BLARG LARF LARF", is that really what it takes?

 

As much as I would like to talk about toxic damage and 2.0.

 

I feel as if it is irrelevant to the concerns of range and the embolist.

[Empiren]

Just because you somehow decide that "indirect buffs" don't count doesn't make it so.

 

Argue against that all you want, but that is not how it works.

 

Again, your argument is that because of damage/armor 2.0, we should ignore the cripling problems with the embolist's range?

[Brimir]

I feel as if it is irrelevant to the concerns of range and the embolist.

Well the discussion sorta drifted onto the general state of the Embolist, and the topic is very much valid when discussing that.

 

 

 

Again, your argument is that because of damage/armor 2.0, we should ignore the cripling problems with the embolist's range?

 

It is only a "crippling problem" if you don't understand the usage of the gun.

Edited December 2, 2013 by Brimir

[Anarties]

As much as I would like to talk about toxic damage and 2.0.

 

I feel as if it is irrelevant to the concerns of range and the embolist.

 

People say it is very weak, but you are right, that matter is for another thread.

Just because you somehow decide that "indirect buffs" don't count doesn't make it so.

 

Argue against that all you want, but that is not how it works.

 

The change to Poison was a huge buff for the Embolist, and a rather savage nerf to the Acrid.

 

Or wait... by your reasoning the Acrid wasn't nerfed in U11.

 

herp derp.

Acrid was not nerfed? DE deliberately reduced the power of the DOT that comes with the Acrid.

 

It no longer scales with Hornet Strike...so by my logic, yes the Acrid was nerfed with U11.

 

Nice try though.

 

People have complained about Ember having the same issue as Embolist, they were promised to be buffed, Armor 2.0 gave indirect buffs, but those buffs did not fix the problems that lie with Ember and the Embolist.

Edited December 2, 2013 by Anarties

[Empiren]

Well the discussion sorta drifted onto the general state of the Embolist, and the topic is very much valid when discussing that.

 

"sort of drifted"

Being you bringing up damage/armor 2.0 and trying to play that off right now. Kinda on the same page you did it on too....

 

 

really.....

[Brimir]

People say it is very weak, but you are right, that matter is for another thread.

Acrid was not nerfed? DE deliberately reduced the power of the DOT that comes with the Acrid.

 

It no longer scales with Hornet Strike...so by my logic, yes the Acrid was nerfed with U11.

 

Nice try though.

 

People have complained about Ember having the same issue as Embolist, they were promised to be buffed, Armor 2.0 gave indirect buffs, but those buffs did not fix the problems that lie with Ember and the Embolist.

 

Aha! But the change to Acrid's DoT came with the switching to Toxic damage type.

 

If that switch can't buff the Embolist, that switch can't nerf the Acrid.

 

:)

[Empiren]

Aha! But the change to Acrid's DoT came with the switching to Toxic damage type.

 

If that switch can't buff the Embolist, that switch can't nerf the Acrid.

 

:)

 

Actually the acrid's dot is weak because it doesn't scale with the damage mods/type just like the torid's poison cloud.

 

At this point you've basically admitted you got jack though, so stop spamming?

Edited December 2, 2013 by Empiren

[Anarties]

Aha! But the change to Acrid's DoT came with the switching to Toxic damage type.

 

If that switch can't buff the Embolist, that switch can't nerf the Acrid.

 

:)

No...it didn't...?

 

Acrid has a DOT proc for every dart.

 

Embolist does not have a proc for every fart cloud that touches the opponent.

 

This is proof enough of the weapons having different mechanics as far as the DOT does.

 

Making it no longer scale with Hornet Strike was planned.

 

We are getting off topic though.

[nekrojiji]

Tactics, basicly.

 

don't walk and shoot, don't aim down sight and shoot.

 

Keep running, and shoot at them. Keep your speed up. Do slides past ancients so they cant target you correctly, Jump kick as much as you can when you encounter an ancient to make them harmless.

 

 

The ancient hits you even if it's with his back toward you. 

 

Here's a fun fact. I play Ash, an ancient charges towards me and I use Smoke Screen. The Smoke Screen staggers the ancient and in this time I leave the place where I used the skill. The ancient comes out of the staggered state, hits the middle of the smoke cloud and I get knocked down and damaged even if I am at more than 5m range from the smoke cloud.

 

In conclusion, don't tell people that if they slide near an ancient they will dodge the knockdown.

Edited December 2, 2013 by nekrojiji

[Empiren]

So just to re-cap, the reason's for not making the embolist range to 10m have been:

Because it makes it a poison ignis

-However no responses to the "isn't it already that" reply.

 

Because it doesn't feel "special

-Whatever that means.

 

Because it is already better than melee weapons in melee range.

-So is pretty much every  ranged weapon.

 

----------------------

 

Kind of thinking the only reason not to change it is because some people are stubborn.

Edited December 2, 2013 by Empiren

[Anarties]

So just to re-cap, the reason's for not making the embolist range to 10m have been:

Because it makes it a poison ignis

-However no responses to the "isn't it already that" reply.

 

Because it doesn't feel "special

-Whatever that means.

 

Because it is already better than melee weapons in melee range.

-So is pretty much every  ranged weapon.

 

----------------------

 

Kind of thinking the only reason not to change it is because some people are stubborn.

That sounds about right.

 

There is really no reason to not increase the range on Embolist so it's more usable.

 

It already has insane ammo consumption which was not offered to be tampered with.

[fatpig84]

The weapon on it's own is fine. The damage it deals more than sufficient to cover the difficulties in getting into range. 

But of course I use a loki, i got a 25 energy radial disarm, so enemies come to me. Even at not full maximum forma potential, I was already out dpsing my 5 formaed ignis.

 

But suffice to say it can use a range buff, BUT if it gets a damage loss, I am putting the blame sorely on OP.

Period.

 

 

Because you are dealing with DE, if something goes higher, something will go way down.

Edited December 2, 2013 by fatpig84

[Anarties]

The weapon on it's own is fine. The damage it deals more than sufficient to cover the difficulties in getting into range. 

But of course I use a loki, i got a 25 energy radial disarm, so enemies come to me. Even at not full maximum forma potential, I was already out dpsing my 5 formaed ignis.

 

But suffice to say it can use a range buff, BUT if it gets a damage loss, I am putting the blame sorely on OP.

Period.

 

 

Because you are dealing with DE, if something goes higher, something will go way down.

Well as of right now the Embolist has less range and is weaker than the Synapse and Ignis...nerfing its power would not be just at all.

 

As a matter of that the Ignis would outshine the Embolist even more since it is so much more powerful than it.

[AnonCat]

I agree with the OP. Embolist needs some stretch mods applied. ;]

[fatpig84]

Well as of right now the Embolist has less range and is weaker than the Synapse and Ignis...nerfing its power would not be just at all.

 

As a matter of that the Ignis would outshine the Embolist even more since it is so much more powerful than it.

 

Consider this, Embolist can get over 4000 corrosive DPS.

With just the 3 damage mods, pathogen rounds and convulsion. Not even Magnum Force.

 

I have not had the time to add more forma to it, so I can double a second combo element.

 

My ignis does close to 3k dps (1.5k blast + 1.4k corrosive) COMBINED and it is 5 formaed with serration, split, HC, ammo mutation, firestorm, hellfire + cyro rounds and Infected clip and stormbringer. And all mods are maxed except HC which is rank 8.

 

 

If the DPS drops, the Embolist is worthless, even with a range increase.

 

Edited December 2, 2013 by fatpig84

[Empiren]

The weapon on it's own is fine. The damage it deals more than sufficient to cover the difficulties in getting into range. 

But of course I use a loki, i got a 25 energy radial disarm, so enemies come to me. Even at not full maximum forma potential, I was already out dpsing my 5 formaed ignis.

 

But suffice to say it can use a range buff, BUT if it gets a damage loss, I am putting the blame sorely on OP.

Period.

 

 

Because you are dealing with DE, if something goes higher, something will go way down.

 

Mmmmmm..... "out dpsing" is really just saying you were fighting very few enemies.

 

It will technically out dps the ignis versus the same amount of enemies gathered or you use the correct weakness, but in realistic terms it doesn't do it for groups at all.

 

You can easily out dps the embolist with the AOE the ignis provides, especially with the new mods increasing that base aoe even more for the ignis.

 

 

Even in close range, if the ignis hits 1-2 more targets it easily can "out dps" the embolist.

Edited December 2, 2013 by Empiren

[fatpig84]

Mmmmmm..... "out dpsing" is really just saying you were fighting very few enemies.

 

It will technically out dps the ignis versus the same amount of enemies gathered or you use the correct weakness, but in realistic terms it doesn't do it for groups at all.

 

You can easily out dps the embolist with the AOE the ignis provides, especially with the new mods increasing that base aoe even more for the ignis.

 

 

Even in close range, if the ignis hits 1-2 more targets it easily can "out dps" the embolist.

 

The embolist can potentially double the DPS of the ignis, just I need spend time to work on it. :(

And I use it purely for killing off hard targets, ignis can handle the softies for me.

 

Having said that I am a fan of both guns, but if Embolist gets a DPS nerf just for another 4m range, for all purposes it is useless for my usage. Or even Vauban users.

Edited December 2, 2013 by fatpig84

[Empiren]

The embolist can potentially double the DPS of the ignis, just I need spend time to work on it. :(

And I use it purely for killing off hard targets, ignis can handle the softies for me.

 

Having said that I am a fan of both guns, but if Embolist gets a DPS nerf just for another 4m range, for all purposes it is useless for my usage. Or even Vauban users.

Um...no, it can't. You are just outright lying right now lol

Ignis 100 dmg/sec (fire

Embolist 150 dmg/sec(toxin

 

You just need to type the ignis better with damage mods.

-Again, the AOE more than makes up for it. Even 1 extra enemy hit will increase the dps significantly. The ignis is more than capable of that.

 

Then just increase the range to 10m without nerfing the damage. You act like it HAS to be nerfed in damage to increased range, it doesn't have to be that way.

--------------------

It's not too much to ask, especially considering the mastery rank requirement.

[fatpig84]

Um...no, it can't. You are just outright lying right now lol

Ignis 100 dmg/sec (fire

Embolist 150 dmg/sec(toxin

 

You just need to type the ignis better with damage mods.

-Again, the AOE more than makes up for it. Even 1 extra enemy hit will increase the dps significantly. The ignis is more than capable of that.

 

Then just increase the range to 10m without nerfing the damage. You act like it HAS to be nerfed in damage to increased range, it doesn't have to be that way.

--------------------

It's not too much to ask, especially considering the mastery rank requirement.

 

 

I have used the Corrosive Blast Ignis on level 59 Grineers and level 60s as a test.

It is not worth it to burn down your mag just to down one heavy.

 

Hitting more targets nets more DPS yes, but what happens to that DPS if you are left with 1 big target ?

 

That is where the Embolist comes in, I use it as a finisher on toughies.

 

Also you are severely underestimating the power of embolist.

I will do a screenie comparison once I am done formaing embolist.

 

 

Like I said, I don't mind a range increase, but if the DPS has to suffer a notch for that, I rather live without the range.

Edited December 2, 2013 by fatpig84

[Empiren]

I have used the Corrosive Blast Ignis on level 59 Grineers and level 60s as a test.

It is not worth it to burn down your mag just to down one heavy.

 

Hitting more targets nets more DPS yes, but what happens to that DPS if you are left with 1 big target ?

 

That is where the Embolist comes in, I use it as a finisher on toughies.

Also you are severely underestimating the power of embolist.

 

I will do a screenie comparison once I am done formaing embolist.

 

I own the embolist and the ignis, I know very well the capabilities of both.

 

If you are left with one big target.....what are the odds of that?

 

Bosses? The very end of a wave? Lord knows that vs higher level ranged it requires cc or it becomes suicide.

-----------

Still, the comparison of damage of ignis vs embolist itself isn't really the topic either. 

-----------------------

 

The embolist is the only gun that requires specific frames for standard use.

 

 

 

 

Increasing the range to 10m does nothing to harm it.

Edited December 2, 2013 by Empiren

[SIDESTRE4M]

What a thread.

So as always it boils down to elitists defending their weapon because no one other uses it because "it's too difficult for them" (thus feeling pro) and those who want a less niche weapon for the massive cost.

I only saw Embolist used by another one only twice in the game. That's either because of the rank requirements, the cost or players just don't bothering with it.

I count myself to the latter because I have plenty other options. I just realized that every mob would already be dead until I would be in range for embolist.

So yeah, the range sucks really and if not used for very specific situations requiring very specific setups, it's not worth the time.

[KF5AQX]

I'm having flashbacks to the Burstron threads of old.

 

That is not a good thing.

[WolfgangHype]

I feel that the primary argument I've seen here is slightly flawed. That being that the Ignis and Synapse can solo high levels but the Embolist can't. My main reason for this feeling is that the other weapons are primary weapons while the Embolist is a secondary. Maybe it's just me, but that tells me that I shouldn't expect to take on an entire level with it (half the maximum ammo being a bit of a detriment).

[Dalu__Ka]

I just did a run on a pluto mission called Oceanum, using only the embolist, and no frame powers or other weapons.

The only problem I encountered was having to be carefull with ammo consumption.

 

You are welcome to join me sometimes, so you can see it in action.

Edited December 2, 2013 by Tenn00b

[SIDESTRE4M]

Seriously, I mean what's the big deal of giving it 4m more rane. It's not like suddenly everyone will hype embolist to oblivion.

Embolist has two major drawbacks. That's range and ammo consumption. Even with maxed pistol ammo mutation.

(And I didn't even mention the fact, that it's very expensive to obtain and it's the highest ranked weapon with a rank requirement of 8)

So the question is, if the drawbacks are in fair relation to what it is and I think not.

For the huge cost it could very well have the same range as Ignis and since we have a lot similarities in weaponry, the people couldn't care less about that. Embolist would still be very unique.

Just because something is somehow doable, doesn't mean it's justified or balanced.

Edited December 2, 2013 by SIDESTRE4M