Remove/nerf That Stupid Damage Dropoff For Shotguns.

[some_random_guy_1]

well now i do agree, this is a bit off topic but also kinda not.

 

I think all weapons should have the ability to have a forma reset, this is where the gun can be unpolarized. a simple choice of how many polarizations you want unpolarized and you can reset it, the cost is that if you want it back up... get-a grindin. I really think that is what alot of people really want to complain about with some of these weapons. People put SO much time and effort into a gun, all these potatoes and whatnot... then when they get this amazing gun, poof... all for nothing because A: better weapon comes out (nerf screamers) or...

                                                                      B: nerf on the gun (buff screamers).

 

This leaves the option of if you don't want the weapon anymore you don't lose all of the investment either, and since your time is still accounted for, its not like you can turn around and just reset a gun once its been leveled and stick the same stuff on a new gun, if the old gun is rebuffed you still need to rework up to the level, the potatoes cant be passed around to prevent 3 potatoes suit all, and the forma will now be easier to invest safely.

 

I got this realization from VGLance and just to say to you: if you can get that far with one gun, and the gun is viably useable as a gun, it needs a nerf since A: any other point in time the gun is a crutch, B: the gun is obviously way too tough considering the highest mastery gun is rank 8 and something like that would need MINIMUM rank 10.

 

Normally people use pluto as the base of if the gun needs tweaking or not, for instance. you could blow through pluto with the brakk even in damage 2.0. and since the brakk "or whatever" TOOK YOU to wave 100 and so on, it tells you how powerful the gun can be, and guns on warframe are mesured not by beginnings but by potential power, and that is indeed WAY more than it should be, because no one gun should take someone that far, even with that much on it.

 

Also I removed a previous comment due to it mostly ranting, the problem is that this is one of so many brakk complaints its not even funny, people have quoted my rant so if ya want to see what happens when viewing 20 or so threads covering the same topic with the same complaints and the same occurence,

 

1: most people who complain were people with this gun, who complained the gun wasn't a crutch anymore, not everyone, but so many that reasonable requests are drowned out by the dull bellyaching grumbles of people who want guns that take the challenge out of games.

 

2: most people who fight against this nerf are people who don't provide fair fixes since no one can deny before the brakk was OP and mostly a crutch. Yes the thing is a bit too close range but we are talking pistol sizes here, not full shotguns. think practical, no gun is going to be as effective pistol size as it would be rifle, shotgun, MG, ext... sized.

 

Just read the quotes people made, lets face it, everyone has their limits for reading rediculous requests and complaints, this isnt TOO bad but it has alot of flaws, for instance... 400m, really... snipers shoot that, NOT HANDCANNONS, SHOTGUNS, EXT... even making a point, you just lost alot of credit with that one.

 

This thread made also seems to miss the point of the shotgun, CQC /w multiple hostiles within a small area, shotguns are mostly crowd control, not 400m snipers, the brakk made the mistake of being the old hek's predecesor and has paid the price, it needs a bit more range, maybe 15-20m,25m max. but 50m and so on is not for a sidearm shotgun.

 

as for the comment below me, the game is going for more of a buck shot, not a turkey shot. most people don't use turkey shot when trying to fight anything with body armor, or are farther than 20 meters since turkey shots have a habit of spreading like cool whip cream on warm apple pie. (bad analogy, too hungry to care)

Edited December 9, 2013 by some_random_guy_1

[Derethevil]

I just have one thing to say, you mostly complain of dropoff.... ITS A SHOTGUN NOT A SNIPER!

 

"BOO HOO I CAN'T NAIL THINGS WITH MY SHOTGUN, A WEAPON MADE FOR CLOSE RANGE, AT SNIPER RIFLE RANGE"

 

Thats basically what I'm hearing. There are enough viable shotguns, and shotguns are MADE to be specifically for close range, not an one gun fits all encounters. To play with a shotgun you need a viable secondary like a dual vasto, magnum, lex, so on. Stop trying to make an overpowered weapon so you don't need to try, because this game is one of the few free to play games you can't just exploit through like money or op weapons (well op weapons can be exploited until DE fixes them, and the brakk nerf shows it.) and by the way, 200 pellets... that might be for a scattergun cannon from the 1700s, but a normal shotgun goes from 8-40, depending on the shell, and 40 is for the most part, used by custom shotguns.

I can kinda admit it might need some shrink in the spread, and maybe a few more pellets, but most people are whining that it cant hit at its old range... i have yet to see a shotgun sniperrifle without it being a sniper with a shell bullet. the brakk needed a nerf, it got it, maybe buff it up a bit to compensate with low range, but 1: its a secondary, and 2: ITS A SHOTGUN WHICH =/= A SNIPER/

 

Either play the game, or play a lazy mans game and stop filling the forums with whiny spam.

 

EDIT: as for the comment below me, I've used one at a friends, even with the new update, still able to be powerful, just need to change some mods, only thing is you cant go sniping with a shotgun. I'd love to see someone give a viable reason to give it any more than a bit of a damage buff, and maybe a bit more range, rather than scream about how they cant snipe things, as i said, secondary... shotgun... not a sniper, not primary.

 

ps: wanna get that build, give it the blast damage and focus on status chance more though of course keep the basics like main damage buff and multishots, you find you can stunlock almost every shot when all is said and done, and if you cant hit far range with the brakk, start using a non shotgun primary with your shotgun secondary.

And with this post you not only confirmed that you didnt read the thread itself. No you didnt even tried to discuss in a way adults would.

If you would have read the thread you would have been able to read, ive already talked about the needed dropoff system itself and it would be okay, if it keeps the dropoff system, but at least make the range more reasonable. 

 

12 gauge shotgun 8-12 pellets (most of Warframes shotgun have this pelletcount) has a lethal range of 60yards (~55 meters)

So the range Warframe has isnt only a huge failure, its also a bad joke.

 

400 pellets aint possible? 

Sure most common used shells would have like 150 as a standard.

And yes most outdated shells counted this many pellets, but there even a higher load, used for different things.

http://www.turkeyshoottargets.com/turkey_shoots/shotgun_shells.asp

 

At the end of the day, i again know more about weapons, even if i dont really want to. (Not that i wouldnt be able to handle one, but weapons are the most stupid thing mankind ever discovered)

[Marthrym]

I just have one thing to say, you mostly complain of dropoff.... ITS A SHOTGUN NOT A SNIPER!

 

"BOO HOO I CAN'T NAIL THINGS WITH MY SHOTGUN, A WEAPON MADE FOR CLOSE RANGE, AT SNIPER RIFLE RANGE"

 

Thats basically what I'm hearing. There are enough viable shotguns, and shotguns are MADE to be specifically for close range, not an one gun fits all encounters. To play with a shotgun you need a viable secondary like a dual vasto, magnum, lex, so on. Stop trying to make an overpowered weapon so you don't need to try, because this game is one of the few free to play games you can't just exploit through like money or op weapons (well op weapons can be exploited until DE fixes them, and the brakk nerf shows it.) and by the way, 200 pellets... that might be for a scattergun cannon from the 1700s, but a normal shotgun goes from 8-40, depending on the shell, and 40 is for the most part, used by custom shotguns.

I can kinda admit it might need some shrink in the spread, and maybe a few more pellets, but most people are whining that it cant hit at its old range... i have yet to see a shotgun sniperrifle without it being a sniper with a shell bullet. the brakk needed a nerf, it got it, maybe buff it up a bit to compensate with low range, but 1: its a secondary, and 2: ITS A SHOTGUN WHICH =/= A SNIPER/

 

Either play the game, or play a lazy mans game and stop filling the forums with whiny spam.

 

EDIT: as for the comment below me, I've used one at a friends, even with the new update, still able to be powerful, just need to change some mods, only thing is you cant go sniping with a shotgun. I'd love to see someone give a viable reason to give it any more than a bit of a damage buff, and maybe a bit more range, rather than scream about how they cant snipe things, as i said, secondary... shotgun... not a sniper, not primary.

 

ps: wanna get that build, give it the blast damage and focus on status chance more though of course keep the basics like main damage buff and multishots, you find you can stunlock almost every shot when all is said and done, and if you cant hit far range with the brakk, start using a non shotgun primary with your shotgun secondary.

Except it is a HANDCANNON. Not that it matters, I can already see the answer : "It has spread like a shotgun, so IT IS a shotgun!" Because of course ONLY shotguns have the right to have spread, it's a well known fact...

 

The problem is that there are many players like myself that have reached end game.  The only real challenge now is to go deep in endless defense / survival missions and break our old personal bests.  We therefore take the lengthy time to not only research which weapons will help us get there, but we spend countless hours re-forma'ing them 4-5 times so that we can put all our maxed out mods on them.  But now, every time we pick an acrid or brakk or whatever that will take us past wave 100 or 3+ hours deep in a survival, we get screwed.

 

For all the people who disrespect min/maxers like me who set incredibly lofty goals in the game, you have to consider the fact that never do I ever disrespect your play style.  We pay our money, we have the right to enjoy the game as long as we are not hurting others or violating the terms of service.  Some play casually, some play hard core.  BOTH are acceptable play styles and MUST be respected.  Especially in a PvE game.

 

It is incredibly disturbing that people can't seem to grasp this simple concept.

 

All things being equal, if DE feels the need to make some adjustments, the only right thing to do is acknowledge the investment in time players put into these weapons and give the players the option to get a reset of their forma's accordingly.  The players still won't recover the time spent re-leveling the weapons over and over.

 

A game company maximizes its profits when it respects its player base.  Because loyalty = $$$.  It's just that simple.

THANK YOU Sir. I cannot for the life of me understand why so few people consider this aspect of the game, or even understand it.

Edited December 9, 2013 by Marthrym

[-RG-Jezus]

Except it is a HANDCANNON. Not that it matters, I can already see the answer : "It has spread like a shotgun, so IT IS a shotgun!" Because of course ONLY shotguns have the right to have spread, it's a well known fact...

 

THANK YOU Sir. I cannot for the life of me understand why so few people consider this aspect of the game, or even consider it.

Actually the Detron was a handcannon. The Brakk was always, and will always be listed as a shotgun.

 

And yeah, the whole forma thing is a different topic, with a lot of people complaining about it, me included. I know people who cannot put an elemental build on their weapons atm because of the polarised slot positions, or the 4 forma sat in my Acrid :(

 

But that is a topic for another thread, and there are a fair few out there.

[--MANA--]

I don't understand how come most people here don't get how shotguns work? I mean it uses pellets and pellets react different from bullets of rifles.
 

Expect a huge damage drop off from those pellets because the kinetic energy that was put on them when you shoot the shotgun is not that focused on just one pellet but on many. 

And plus this is the shotgun's gunplay! It's like this in real life. I know that this is a game and it shouldn't be real life bla bla bla. but what you guys should get is that whether this is a game, that's just how shotgun gunplay is. It's suppose to be for close range.

[Marthrym]

Actually the Detron was a handcannon. The Brakk was always, and will always be listed as a shotgun.

 

  Simple but powerful. The semi-automatic Brakk HAND CANNON delivers a lot of punch in a small package.  

–In-Game Description

You were saying?

 

As for the Detron, you can see Corpus running around with it, It's clearly the same type of weapon, except with lasers scattering. So either DE makes it clear they are not hand cannons and then I'm okay with it, we can move on, or they are hand cannons with weird shotgun-type ammo. So... shotty or hand cannon?

Edited December 9, 2013 by Marthrym

[__Kanade__]

I have no problems with shotguns since they're meant to be CQB weapons, not snipers. I didn't really care when the wannabe sniper Hek was nerfed, I still used it the way a traditional shotgun is supposed to be used.

[Ddublu]

Yeah, sorry but as a veteran to how shotties were BEFORE the drop-off nerf, they needed the drop-off to make them not a 'go-to to win' weapon. Back in the day, the Hek was most popular because it was capable of literally sniping and one-shotting high heavy enemies before they had a chance to get in their own attack range. I remember my friends would hop on pillars or other unreachable areas and just snipe away with the Hek.

After drop-off was added, it really didn't affect the popularity of shotties all that much as they were still really good weapons to bring along for mid-high level defense missions, especially for infested since they come running at you anyway. (though after weapons like Soma and Flux Rifle was added, that's when shotties kind of left the popularity contest I believe.)

All in all, shotguns play how shotguns are meant to play. Perhaps what people percieve how shotguns are meant to play is like how they are in FPS (though don't quote me on this as I barely play those actually), where it's not about how far someone is because each pellet will do the same damage at any range, it's just how many will hit the target.

So to remove drop-off on shotties, DE would need to rebalance them by giving them more spread or something I guess?

Edit: Friend tells me modern FPS have both drop-off and larger spread. I'm guessing to make people happy, and keep shotguns not 'ultimate' weapons, DE would need to incorporate these aspects. Reduce the drop-off effect but add more spread to the guns.

Edited December 9, 2013 by Ddublu