Free Players, Shouldn't Have To Feel Forced, To Buy Platinum.

[Venarge]

First of all, a free to play game shouldn't ever guilt-trip you into paying money because DEVS GOTTA EAT. Get outta here with that stupid rationale.

Second, there was a very detailed and well-written thread on here about how money-gating should be used as a gameplay expander, not a gameplay limiter. I should be happy to pay for something I want in order to check out different things, not feel like I have to pay something to get some arbitrary limitations removed from my game.

And last, there has only been a single orokin reactor blueprint event in the last month since I've started playing this game. And only because it was a special 12-hour dev promotion. This needs to change.

you can get everything through playing the game so please stop whinig....

[Azure_Kytia]

But the game doesn't guilt trip you into anything. The only thing that "Limits" you is maybe Potatoes, and there are free methods of acquiring them.

The other limitation is an entirely psychological one, where you want to collect everything. Pretty much every F2P game I've played limits your equipment or bank inventory in some way that basically forces you to pay for more room. You get 8 whole slots for any weapon, completely free with which to fill with all sorts of lovely stuff. If you can't part with a weapon you haven't used in 50 missions to test out something new, that's a problem entirely your own.

Edited March 12, 2013 by Azure_Kyte

[Nocturni]

you can get everything through playing the game so please stop whinig....

He isn't whining. You're missing the entire point.

[DolgVlaPet]

They are not limiting a thing, mate. You can craft anything in game from blueprints, buying those for in-game money or finding those on a missions. The only thing you can't get by playing is pure bling-bling (Colours for your character) and it's a non-essencial thing in game. I think developers are really generous with players in warframe. Just to set an example... Ever played "Combat Arms"? It's a FTP game as well. You want a good gun in CA and have no real money? Well, too bad, grind all day long to be able to purchase with game money trial-only decent gun for 3 days.

Warframe got really player-friendly approach, mate. Anything you may need in game, you can get it at random or by just playing the game and orokin items are SUPPOSED to be rare to find, if everyone could find them easily, it would be quite a overkill, don't you think? Nobody is forcing you to pay for a thing, it's your choise, but take in count, developers don't have some kind of generous sugar daddy, who cover the expences for mere mantaince of this game, they rely on players and players only, so by not supporting the game we like, it may seize to exist. Be more open-minded, nothing in this world is free and they need money to keep making this game (Which is still in beta and not completelly developed, by the way), and this guys, knowing the fact the money is vital for future development, they are giving you the option not to pay and just keep playing in order to get the good stuff you have wet dreams about.

[Venarge]

He isn't whining. You're missing the entire point.

What entire point. People want everything but dont want to pay anything. Thats ok since you can obtain everything without paying a cent and a starter of 50 plat for slots or potatoes. But talking about not getting a potato is just ridiculous....

Edited March 12, 2013 by Venarge

[Venarge]

They are not limiting a thing, mate. You can craft anything in game from blueprints, buying those for in-game money or finding those on a missions. The only thing you can't get by playing is pure bling-bling (Colours for your character) and it's a non-essencial thing in game. I think developers are really generous with players in warframe. Just to set an example... Ever played "Combat Arms"? It's a FTP game as well. You want a good gun in CA and have no real money? Well, too bad, grind all day long to be able to purchase with game money trial-only decent gun for 3 days.

Warframe got really player-friendly approach, mate. Anything you may need in game, you can get it at random or by just playing the game and orokin items are SUPPOSED to be rare to find, if everyone could find them easily, it would be quite a overkill, don't you think? Nobody is forcing you to pay for a thing, it's your choise, but take in count, developers don't have some kind of generous sugar daddy, who cover the expences for mere mantaince of this game, they rely on players and players only, so by not supporting the game we like, it may seize to exist. Be more open-minded, nothing in this world is free and they need money to keep making this game (Which is still in beta and not completelly developed, by the way), and this guys, knowing the fact the money is vital for future development, they are giving you the option not to pay and just keep playing in order to get the good stuff you have wet dreams about.

+1

[krisp]

But the game doesn't guilt trip you into anything. The only thing that "Limits" you is maybe Potatoes, and there are free methods of acquiring them.

Game doesn't guilt-trip you, but a lot of people on these forums do. It's the number one defense when asking for a more reasonable business model: "HOW DARE YOU, DEVS GOTTA EAT, GAME WILL GO OUT OF BUSINESS BECAUSE OF YOUR FREELOADING". It's a S#&$ty defense because the game shouldn't guilt-trip you, and if the game doesn't neither should you.

Current limits are slots, orokins and wait times. They're pretty damn important for the overall gameplay so quit downplaying them. The simple fact that there is some sort of obtuse way to get them doesn't a reasonable business model make. It just makes it non-pay-to-win which I'm grateful for but that doesn't mean I won't criticize it when there's still work to be done. ESPECIALLY since this is closed beta and the time where many important changes are made.

What entire point.

The one that you're missing. Take the hint next time.

Anything you may need in game, you can get it at random or by just playing the game and orokin items are SUPPOSED to be rare to find, if everyone could find them easily, it would be quite a overkill, don't you think?

No, I don't. I disagree with the entire orokin system. Remove them and make the frames/weapons harder to level. It would make XP boosters worthwhile as well as provide a reasonable time-for-money exchange system. Limit the XP boost to one thing at a time if you want.

Bottom line: some free-to-play games' success has depended heavily on how user-friendly and reasonable their business model has been. The happier your customers are, the more they'll be inclined to spend money. This isn't me trying to freeload my way into the devs' precious assets without paying. I'm suggesting a system that will work better in the long run and will lengthen this game's income AND lifespan. I do not NEED to play this game. I'm here because I like it, and if I stop liking it I'll just stop playing. And trust me, a non-paying player is way better than no player at all.

Consider this semi-hypothetical situation: I may not have money, but my friends do. Play this game enough, have enough fun with it, and they'll want to check it out. Most of my friends have jobs or an income and won't mind paying the equivalent of a pack of smokes every once in a while to expediate their gameplay. But if you alienate them and make them feel like they're forced to spend, they will not spend. They will find another game that isn't as aggressive with implied payment towards them and will play that instead. And I will join them. Simple as that. You lose a part of your community, potential customers and potential income in one fell swoop.

And if you'd like to disagree, first tell me one good free to play game that has run out of business for not being greedy enough.

Edited March 12, 2013 by krisp

[cypherhalo]

I agree witht the OP, you shouldn't need to buy slots, or at the very least, there should be a free way to get them. I see no sign that DE is reconsidering their position on this though. It is definitely a bit of an annoyance with the "free" to play games though that are "free", if you're ok with playing a gimped copy of the game without all the features. Then yeah, it's free. I dislike such a system.

[--Sensei--]

6 reactors and 6 catalysts from alerts =D

also guys its only 20 frigging plats, thats like what? 1-2 dollars? you can't spare 1-2 dollars for a reactor or 2 slot inventory spaces? seriously, you're griping about 1-2 dollars?

Shouldn't be playing games if you can't afford to shell out 1-2 bucks.

Edited March 12, 2013 by BushidoCode

[Venarge]

Game doesn't guilt-trip you, but a lot of people on these forums do. It's the number one defense when asking for a more reasonable business model: "HOW DARE YOU, DEVS GOTTA EAT, GAME WILL GO OUT OF BUSINESS BECAUSE OF YOUR FREELOADING". It's a S#&$ty defense because the game shouldn't guilt-trip you, and if the game doesn't neither should you.

Current limits are slots, orokins and wait times. They're pretty damn important for the overall gameplay so quit downplaying them. The simple fact that there is some sort of obtuse way to get them doesn't a reasonable business model make. It just makes it non-pay-to-win which I'm grateful for but that doesn't mean I won't criticize it when there's still work to be done. ESPECIALLY since this is closed beta and the time where many important changes are made.

The one that you're missing. Take the hint next time.

No, I don't. I disagree with the entire orokin system. Remove them and make the frames/weapons harder to level. It would make XP boosters worthwhile as well as provide a reasonable time-for-money exchange system. Limit the XP boost to one thing at a time if you want.

Bottom line: some free-to-play games' success has depended heavily on how user-friendly and reasonable their business model has been. The happier your customers are, the more they'll be inclined to spend money. This isn't me trying to freeload my way into the devs' precious assets without paying. I'm suggesting a system that will work better in the long run and will lengthen this game's income AND lifespan. I do not NEED to play this game. I'm here because I like it, and if I stop liking it I'll just stop playing. And trust me, a non-paying player is way better than no player at all.

Consider this semi-hypothetical situation: I may not have money, but my friends do. Play this game enough, have enough fun with it, and they'll want to check it out. Most of my friends have jobs or an income and won't mind paying the equivalent of a pack of smokes every once in a while to expediate their gameplay. But if you alienate them and make them feel like they're forced to spend, they will not spend. They will find another game that isn't as aggressive with implied payment towards them and will play that instead. And I will join them. Simple as that. You lose a part of your community, potential customers and potential income in one fell swoop.

And if you'd like to disagree, first tell me one good free to play game that has run out of business for not being greedy enough.

its just funny xD As i started that game, I had nothing. No slots or anything. I had my 50 plat and thats it. I took them to buy a slot for weapon and frame. I was happy with that. I grinded with friends, found bp and made a new warframe and never had any feeling of being forced to buy plat. People arent forced to do anything. The only thing they might need are slots. But only for those who are cleptomaniac and try to catch them all -.- so its more of a psychological thing than a real "force".

A thing i would really like to see in the game is some kind of " try it for a day" to give people some playtime to get warm with the frame and see if it fits the playstyle to stop people from making wrong frame builds.

Edited March 12, 2013 by Venarge

[Azure_Kytia]

I agree with you krisp in regards to Alerts being a problematic way to get potatoes. Because all alerts should actually be completely random for everybody, whether they come with bonuses or not. It was certainly not my intention to guilt trip anyone into anything and much less appreciate the insinuation as such, however I do see that 95% of content is accessible via free methods (mainly Alerts, which are partially implemented and hardly representative of the final implementation)

While the main arguments I constantly see being slots and potatoes. Potatoes are power, there's no question about that. Slots, on the other hand, are pure convenience. Whilst it's nice to have more space, 8 slots is plenty for two complete sets of weaponry and two extra for rotation. The only real suggestion I could have towards that would be to give either 20 platinum per 3 ranks (You start with 50 at Initiate, Silver Initiate, Gold Initiate, 20 Plat added at Novice, Silver Novice, Gold Novice, 20 Plat added at Disciple, etc) or alternate between awarding two weapon slots and a warframe slot per 3 ranks. Or maybe just make them available in the Market for Credits at that Rank.

Edited March 12, 2013 by Azure_Kyte

[DolgVlaPet]

And if you'd like to disagree, first tell me one good free to play game that has run out of business for not being greedy enough.

Sure, I would like to. Some examples:

Crimecraft - You payed only for premium for boosted EXP and bling-bling like unique decorative clothings and coloring. Ran out of business because of lack of final objective in game, just playing all day long killing players and bots gets boring eventually, nothing really epic or remarkable once you get to maximum level, just the same routine as always. Game still exists, but there are no more than 50 players inside. Most players are in "Apb reloaded" now.

Gantz - Who remember that one? Who remember gantz? No one? Well, okay... Whatever. These guys been greedy at the beginning, charging extra money for anything they could but eventually as game got old for their times, they realized that they are losing a lot of players. Guys made it completelly FTP and you payed only for decorative clothing, but... They starved eventually and closed it.

Metal Assault - Wicked 2d online Metal-Gear like game, tons of guns, clothing, free items roulette after each mission and you payed only for guns you can buy with game money or bling-bling cloths. So... What happened? Eventually, people stopped paying money, the company who had the game saw no more profit in it and sold it to chinese. Playable only in china now and only in chinese.

If it's not enough, I could take some more time to remember more delicious moments of my wasted younght to set em' as example. Warframe developers are doing a great job here, started a game from a scrath, they did great work and the game is big success. From my experience with FTP games, Warframe is treating players really good.

[Venarge]

I agree with you krisp in regards to Alerts being a problematic way to get potatoes. Because all alerts should actually be completely random for everybody, whether they come with bonuses or not. It was certainly not my intention to guilt trip anyone into anything and much less appreciate the insinuation as such, however I do see that 95% of content is accessible via free methods (mainly Alerts, which are partially implemented and hardly representative of the final implementation)

While the main arguments I constantly see being slots and potatoes. Potatoes are power, there's no question about that. Slots, on the other hand, are pure convenience. Whilst it's nice to have more space, 8 slots is plenty for two complete sets of weaponry and two extra for rotation. The only real suggestion I could have towards that would be to give either 20 platinum per 3 ranks (You start with 50 at Initiate, Silver Initiate, Gold Initiate, 20 Plat added at Novice, Silver Novice, Gold Novice, 20 Plat added at Disciple, etc) or alternate between awarding two weapon slots and a warframe slot per 3 ranks. Or maybe just make them available in the Market for Credits at that Rank.

I like the idea of adding some plat for higher ranks, but the credit thing is not really my thing ^^ I just sold some of my mods today and tada: 500k. Its so easy to make credits ^^

[Azure_Kytia]

But for how long?

[DolgVlaPet]

^You just won the award of most pessimistic comment on thread.

[Dawg]

Hate people who come onto the forums and complain about platnum, if you arent prepared to support the game then expect to have some disadvantages. Correct the game is free to play and play for free you may but don't cry like a little girl when their are some things unobtainable without platnum. As a player allready stated the Devs need to make money it is a independant studio and a buisness after all.

[krisp]

its just funny xD As i started that game, I had nothing. No slots or anything. I had my 50 plat and thats it. I took them to buy a slot for weapon and frame. I was happy with that. I grinded with friends, found bp and made a new warframe and never had any feeling of being forced to buy plat. People arent forced to do anything. The only thing they might need are slots. But only for those who are cleptomaniac and try to catch them all -.- so its more of a psychological thing than a real "force".

A thing i would really like to see in the game is some kind of " try it for a day" to give people some playtime to get warm with the frame and see if it fits the playstyle to stop people from making wrong frame builds.

I said feeling forced, not being forced. The game can't really force you to do anything. Psychological effects are the underlying factors behind every purchase everyone ever made in this game.

While the main arguments I constantly see being slots and potatoes. Potatoes are power, there's no question about that. Slots, on the other hand, are pure convenience. Whilst it's nice to have more space, 8 slots is plenty for two complete sets of weaponry and two extra for rotation. The only real suggestion I could have towards that would be to give either 20 platinum per 3 ranks (You start with 50 at Initiate, Silver Initiate, Gold Initiate, 20 Plat added at Novice, Silver Novice, Gold Novice, 20 Plat added at Disciple, etc) or alternate between awarding two weapon slots and a warframe slot per 3 ranks. Or maybe just make them available in the Market for Credits at that Rank.

Yes, 8 weapon slots is reasonable, but I don't feel like 2 warframe slots is, especially since we're looking at 15+ warframes with more to be added post-launch. 3 would be optimal, so I could keep 2 for various situations and delete the one I like least, eventually maybe improving the number. So far the 50 plat you get for free covers that, but a better idea would be rewarding players for hitting level 4 or 5 with a one-time slot. But you know what might be even better? Get rid of the slots entirely. This isn't an MMO where you have 6 classes and 2 slots for them. This is a game where one of the major goals is seeing what each warframe can do, much like League of Legends with its champions. Limiting the number of maximum frames you can have goes against that philosophy.

Sure, I would like to. Some examples:

Metal Assault was the only one that fulfilled what I asked for, and even that example was vague as to the purpose of its closing. I asked for good f2p games that ran out of business because of a model that was too lenient. You gave me Crimecraft, which people stopped playing because there was nothing to do, Gantz, which looks more like it ran out of business because it was too greedy (there's no reason people would make a paid game f2p unless it was already losing players), and Metal Assault which is still in business in a relatively poor part of the world. So yeah. Edited March 12, 2013 by krisp

[Venarge]

Hate people who come onto the forums and complain about platnum, if you arent prepared to support the game then expect to have some disadvantages. Correct the game is free to play and play for free you may but don't cry like a little girl when their are some things unobtainable without platnum. As a player allready stated the Devs need to make money it is a independant studio and a buisness after all.

http://i454.photobuc...is_approves.gif

Edited March 12, 2013 by Venarge

[DolgVlaPet]

And I will repeat myself, but Warframe IS NOT FORCING the player to pay real money. Money is payed only for luxurity, like extra storage (If you are dedicated enough player to want all the suits and guns, why not? You can do it.), bling-bling or getting faster the stuff you want. You want to know what forcing is? Try playing "Age Of Conan", "Age Of Empires Online", "Combat Arms" or "Fallen Earth" without paying... World of pain, tears and suffering awaits you.

And since you brought the subject, question was, I will just help myself and take a quote from your post:

And if you'd like to disagree, first tell me one good free to play game that has run out of business for not being greedy enough.

A lot of players left crimecraft because there was nothing else to do, but once they lost about 25% of players, the worst thing happened to this game, which was it's undoing eventually... Releasing of "Bleedout" expansion, reccomended by some guy on forums to improve the game. You can download the game in steam for free and see by yourself what am I talking about, they made completelly new game, leaving almost nothing from previous game, still with same payment policy. They added some new items and missions as well, so people won't get bored. Some old players returned, bunch of newcomers as well, played for couple of mounts more, got all the guns in game (With unlimited storage Crimicraft provides) and what happens next? No one is paying for the game, study goes bancrupt, another study buys the game, add a lot of "For money only" stuff, people leave the game, joining "APB Reloaded".

As for Guntz, yes. This is not a really good example, game has been really greedy in the beginning, but I will repeat once again... It died for the same reason... People stopped paying.

And if you want another example... "Sphere" game.

http://img.brothersoft.com/screenshots/softimage/s/sphere_online-307997-1259647058.jpeg Pretty old one, I wonder if someone still remember it. Game was based on voluntary donations, you didn't had to pay a single thing to play it, no premium stuff, no bling-bling, just download it and play it freely. Open world, lots of random-generated quests and dungeon-crawler like locations filled with mobs and booty to be pillaged, lots of carrers to choose from, 5 servers filled to the tops with people playing it. So... What happened? They ran out of money, closed the game forever.

Edited March 12, 2013 by DolgVlaPet

[Venarge]

This isn't an MMO where you have 6 classes and 2 slots for them. This is a game where one of the major goals is seeing what each warframe can do, much like League of Legends with its champions. Limiting the number of maximum frames you can have goes against that philosophy.

Major goal? What you are talking about is luxury. Seeing what each frame is capable of? Watch the vids and choose. You want the comfort of using every frame at all times. Thats just luxury and if you want it, you have to pay for that.

[Azure_Kytia]

^You just won the award of most pessimistic comment on thread.

Not really pessimistic, more realistic, and quite optimistic, in fact. The first thing DE could do with the new artifact system is reduce the insane inflation Credits have due to the current value of mods.

Edited March 12, 2013 by Azure_Kyte

[DolgVlaPet]

Not really pessimistic, more realistic, and quite optimistic, in fact. The first thing DE could do with the new artifact system is reduce the insane inflation Credits have due to the current value of mods.

I'm just jocking. :}

Yeah, better economic stability would be nice. When they'll add a auction where players can trade stuff, economic stability will be really necessary.

[DolgVlaPet]

Actually... Why are you asking me about the FTP games gone bancrupt? It's not the issue of topic. Issue is: You are trying to convince everyone that luxurity/rares should be free. Check every... Single... FTP... Game. There is no such thing. You can play the whole game with 1 suit, they are giving you space for 2. You need 3 weapons to do the work, the game is giving you storage for 5 more. So what is the problem here? You can have your extra-suit whenever you need it and there is space for guns as well to try new ones and choose ones you liked more. And orkin items are supposed to be rare, because they make your suit/gun double of awesome as it was before. AND STILL YOU CAN GET THOSE FOR FREE. You are complaining for insignificant things, mate.

Take a good look at other FTP online games, like Combat Arms, lets say, you played it for quite a while, got level 30. And here you are, laying in the ground in the puddle of your own blood, while some guy is raping your corpse. How did this happened? He is better than you? Nope, guy is level 1, just started the game yesterday. Hacks? Nope, he is legit player. Luck? C'mon, this guy must be the most unfortunate human being, who have the disgrace to walk the earth. So why is this rookie applying gently his genitalia against chunk of flesh that used to be your corpse? Easy... It's because that level one rookie invested real money in game and bought heavy machine gun and heaviest armor in game from a start, and as hard as you tried to kill him with your basic gun, while that over-fed mutant was just standing there in the open, picking his nose, it took him less than a second to fill your body with lead rain, slaining your life away. Why? Because the only way to have a decent gun and decent equipment in Combat Arms, is by investing in that game. All you can do with your in-game money is buy decorative cloths and 3 day trial-only basic guns. That's why. It's the only way to play Combat Arms and if you don't agree with that, you can marry the rats in developer's &#!. I dare you... I double dare you to play Combat Arms for a while without paying a cent and I assure you that you will understand entirelly how looks the game that actually forces you to donate real money to play. Without real money, in Combat Arms you are nothing... Less than nothing... Cannon fodder for trigger-happy maniacs.

Warframe gives you everything existent in this game for free, if you don't mind putting a little effort into searching for it and still you are complaining. What's wrong with you?

Edited March 12, 2013 by DolgVlaPet

[francJ]

A hungry traveler call Bill went into a monastery and was glad he was offered a place to stay and a simple vegetarian meal a day. The place was old but at least there is decent shelter. The food at first tasted tremendously delicious as Bill hasn't eaten for the past couple of days. Oh man it was the best meal he had in ages Bill thought as tears flow down his cheeks.

BILL LOVE IT! OMG THIS IS THE BEST

The next day a local businessman call Richie came and donated bricks and money for the monastery repairs. The monks offered Richie the best suite and three scumptious vegetarian meal a day. The warrior monks even performed kungfu arts to entertain Richie. The abbot seriously gave Richie the best accomodations they can afford to show their gratitude. Without people like Richie's support, the monastery would fall.

Bill on the other hand was jealous and became unsatisfactory. Even though there is a daily lucky draw to let all the monks and visitors a chance have a nice warm meal, they chances are quite low and Bill didn't won unfortunately. There were also random but rare daily missions or request, such as carry water from the well or fix a furniture but the rewards are also very random and most often Bill got apparently what he think are junks.

Bill thought the monks are trolling him!

Bill complaint to the monks despite him already lounging for free. He reprimanded the abbot and demanded changes to be made in the name of FAIRNESS! The abbot being a wise monk felt maybe he could change it for the better of every being to be equal. However the monastery's resources are limited. He can't allocate suites and three meals for everybody at all. Poor monks. What should they do?

Abbot needs your help!

Edited March 12, 2013 by francJ

[DolgVlaPet]

I applaud you, good sir... Best comment on topic. :}

Edited March 12, 2013 by DolgVlaPet