Soma Needs More Recoil!

[Shikazure]

Now if only I were arguing about their damage, this is about drawbacks, which the Soma lacks. 

 

Now if only I were arguing about their damage, this is about drawbacks, which the Soma lacks. 

Soma has no draw major draw backs BECAUSE its a higher tier aside from its 3 second reload speed which is countered by its 100 round mag.

 

as you rank up guns should be better, just like your enemies do at higher levels they become less forgiving with more damage more armor and health. this is not some modern military shooter where your guns are specialized for certain roles. what wrong with having a all in one assault rife

[Eltoshan]

All these arguments about the OPness of weapons is vain, for the many reasons already expressed in this thread, and for another one, much more valid.

 

DE never expressed what should be the power level of gear per mastery rank.

 

All whiners are screeching "OP ! OP ! OP !" like f*king mice yet only DE know if a piece of gear is truly unbalanced or not because they are the only one to know what kind of balance they want to achieve, if any.

They should start to give good, valuable feedback about the content instead of thinking that pestering the devs will lead them anywhere.

 

DE, please go on making entertaining content for your customers without caring about the tantrums of a token number of sour people.

 

/thread for me.

This is the best kind of post because it generalizes the opposition's argument while ignoring things like common sense or facts or sensible points that have been made all so you can try to hold some kind of high ground over those oh-so-terrible complainers.

 

By best I actually meant most embarrassing, though.

[letir]

1) We don't really need your opinon either. Also, I'm a Warlord, not clanboy. Use the right title pls.

2) http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Critical_Hit_%28Mechanic%29#Notes

 

Critical headshots seem to bypass armor, and you have the game, you have the Soma, you have mobs to headshot. It's not hard to find out.

 

 

3) He was talking about serious drawbacks. Half of that aren't even drawbacks or are outright BS ("quite a large" and "rare" resources lolwtf? Going to edit that line in wiki as rare mats are Neurodes, Orokin Cells and the Neural Sensors).

1) Who cares? Who wann listen your cry about clantech? Nobody.

2) Go and find out. Your words - your evidnce, clanboy.

3) "Spend ammo like crazy". "Weak vs Shields". "Must be in critical build".

You cannot read category "Disadvantages" properly?

[Eltoshan]

1) Who cares? Who wann listen your cry about clantech? Nobody.

2) Go and find out. Your words - your evidnce, clanboy.

3) "Spend ammo like crazy". "Weak vs Shields". "Must be in critical build".

You cannot read category "Disadvantages" properly?

"Must be in a critical build" is only a good disadvantage if you name "Must be in an elemental build" for every other non-crit gun. That's not even a real disadvantage. You might as well say "has to be modded"... much like every other weapon, it means about as much.

 

And ammo is hardly a legit concern with the Soma compared to a lot of other guns that have, like, actual recoil and accuracy problems.

 

Sorry dude but you're reaching really hard, here.

[letir]

1) "Must be in a critical build" is only a good disadvantage if you name "Must be in an elemental build" for every other non-crit gun. That's not even a real disadvantage. You might as well say "has to be modded"... much like every other weapon, it means about as much.

2) And ammo is hardly a legit concern with the Soma compared to a lot of other guns that have, like, actual recoil and accuracy problems.

 

Sorry dude but you're reaching really hard, here.

1) You have only 8 mods in total, so "-2 mods for normal damage" - disadvantage. Really. You barely can put another elemental combo on this thing, just bcs you spend alot on critical hits.

2) Try to go solo with ammo-eater on high level (this is top-tier weapon, right?), and you'll spend 2/3 ammo in the middle of mission. Well moded Burston don't have this problem at all.

[Eltoshan]

1) You have only 8 mods in total, so "-2 mods for normal damage" - disadvantage. Really. You barely can put another elemental combo on this thing, just bcs you spend alot on critical hits.

2) Try to go solo with ammo-eater on high level (this is top-tier weapon, right?), and you'll spend 2/3 ammo in the middle of mission. Well moded Burston don't have this problem at all.

Except the returns you get for modding it that way vastly outweigh that problem. This is still not an actual disadvantage.

 

I guess you can argue you'll run out of ammo with the Soma if you exclusively use it and nothing else, ever, and are bad with it (as in, holding down your mouse button over every single enemy's torso instead of tapping and going for headshots and watching their body evaporate into a fine mist) but that's not a very good argument. It's also a ridiculous scenario in the first place because what high level missions that offer actual rewards that I want would I even be soloing while using nothing but a single gun?

 

A well modded Burston also won't do nearly as much damage, so it's welcome to enjoy its lovely ammo economy as much as it wants.

[letir]

Really? Ok.

 

Soma, 2 base crit mods.

10 base damage, 75% crit chance, 6.6 crit+ 7% status chance.

So, your doing 49.5 damage (only 75% crit chance).

 

Burston, 2 elemental mods.

29 base damage+54 elemental damage+75% from enemy weakness+15% status chance.

So, you doing 124 damage+status.

 

 

Don't play with me in theorycraft. This is my field.

Edited December 20, 2013 by letir

[Eltoshan]

So did you post those numbers to show how your theorycrafting skills can make it look like the Burston is better than the Soma when everyone with a clue knows the Soma is one of the best rifles in the game and that the Burston is nowhere near it in terms of power?

 

Because there people who actually did the math for effective dps/dps with reloads for all the primaries/secondaries in the game, already, and it's not favorable for the Burston. At all.

 

I'll also take this as a tacit admission that your disadvantages for the Soma were entirely made up nonsense.

 

edit: Also, really, of all the possible comparisons, you went with a semi-auto gun? Here's an actual disadvantage that is very relevant for some players: the horrible damage loss if your frame rate is not smooth like butter.

Edited December 20, 2013 by Eltoshan

[letir]

So, you just surrender and use term "everybody knows"? Good joob, fail approved.

 

Advice: don't say "damage" about Soma, say "DPS" (damage*RoF).

[Eltoshan]

Sorry, I'll qualify that with "people who actually play the game and know how things work", then. Is that simpler? Because it certainly seems simpler than responding to someone who pretends they're good at theorycrafting. (here, I'll do your work for you: http://i.imgur.com/ltrpQu2.jpg source: http://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/1rq20w/ultimate_dps_chart_part_1_primiaries/ )

 

Advice: Learn what an actual disadvantage on a weapon is, and don't try to be smug while trying to explain to someone what DPS is because it's embarrassing. Sorry if I don't hold myself to super precise wording standards when you literally copy and pasted the disadvantages section of the Soma from the wiki in some futile attempt to prove a point.

Edited December 20, 2013 by Eltoshan

[letir]

My first points was "bad ammo efficient" and "crit builds only", it's obvios even for Wiki.

 

I said something about DPS??? NO.

 

So it's your fault:

A well modded Burston also won't do nearly as much damage, so it's welcome to enjoy its lovely ammo economy as much as it wants.

DAMAGE.

 

Damage of 1 bullet mean AMMO CONSERVATION.

 

Bcs you restricted with CRIT BUILD ONLY, just for DPS, over gun can concentrate on damage, versality or fraction specializtion.

[Curzyfish]

My first points was "bad ammo efficient" and "crit builds only", it's obvios even for Wiki.

 

I said something about DPS??? NO.

 

So it's your fault:

DAMAGE.

 

Damage of 1 bullet mean AMMO CONSERVATION.

 

Bcs you restricted with CRIT BUILD ONLY, just for DPS, over gun can concentrate on damage, versality or fraction specializtion.

 

 

What gun, that doesn't have good crit, would you NOT go crit for? what weapon that has a 5% crit chance WOULD you use crit for? A "crit build" is not some sort of con.  It's a massive benefit because it allows you to stack the elemental damage the enemy type is weak to more than a non crit weapon ever could.  Also, crit head shots currently do QUADRUPLE damage (not double like a non crit head shot).

[Eltoshan]

Your first points were both poor. The ammo efficiency is fine unless you're trying to spray a room with it, assuming you properly modded it. You are aware of the incredibly high levels of damage it does even at long range by simply tapping to fire (at the head, obviously, preferably) instead of sustained fire, correct? Crit builds only is not a disadvantage. If you're going to deny that, then answer this: is how you build a weapon a disadvantage if the weapon is one of the best in the game?

 

It's also not my fault you decided to get very literal over something absolutely irrelevant because the Soma is in all respects a far, -far- superior weapon to the Burston. Because, I'm going to be perfectly honest: I don't actually care about the Burston's damage and it's a completely meaningless tangent and how efficient it is or it isn't has no impact on the Soma's ridiculous output. Yeah, if you're bad at using the Soma, you might be more efficient with another gun. That's not really an interesting or relevant revelation. Some people use damage/dps interchangeably when the argument doesn't require specificity, and this one sure doesn't.

 

And I don't know what versatility or faction specializing has to do with anything because the Soma is already a versatile weapon due to having high enough accuracy to be effectively used at long range while still outputting massive damage (despite its nature as an assault rifle that would suggest needing sustained output to get anything done) due to its crit stats while also being able to be sprayed if you've got the ammo to spare and are at shorter distances. It has all the versatility it needs, and doesn't require any particular specialization unless you direly want to min/max your element combo of choice based on the faction you're fighting.

 

But, of course, it's so ludicrously strong that you don't really need to do so unless you're going particularly deep into defense/survival. But hey, the option's there!

 

I'll note that I personally couldn't care less if that Soma got nerfed or not even though it clearly deserves some tweaking but trying to say that it has disadvantages because you need to put crit mods (on a crit weapon?!?!?!) on it is ridiculous.

 

also ^^ yes this guy gets it read his post and take it to heart because it is a good post.

 

 

edit: Also actually it's kind of funny because of Soma headshots and how they work the Burston probably can't even say it does more damage per bullet except other than on poorly done napkin math.

Edited December 20, 2013 by Eltoshan

[letir]

What gun, that doesn't have good crit, would you NOT go crit for? what weapon that has a 5% crit chance WOULD you use crit for? A "crit build" is not some sort of con.  It's a massive benefit because it allows you to stack the elemental damage the enemy type is weak to more than a non crit weapon ever could.  Also, crit head shots currently do QUADRUPLE damage (not double like a non crit head shot).

You don't see new damage table? There is no universal damage anymore.

[Curzyfish]

You don't see new damage table? There is no universal damage anymore.

 

Doesn't change the optimal elemental load out really.  Slap on corrosive to deal with ancients, and heat for other infested, for example.  Non crit weapons will end up having to stack on sub optimal elements instead of being able to use crit to give a massive boost to the effective ones.

 

EDIT: should note it's not always a disadvantage to have to use more elemental mods because a weapons' crit stats are low.  Throwing on blast for knock down is good regardless of damage.

Edited December 20, 2013 by Curzyfish

[letir]

 

1) The ammo efficiency is fine unless you're trying to spray a room with it, assuming you properly modded it.

2) It's also not my fault you decided to get very literal over something absolutely irrelevant because the Soma is in all respects a far, -far- superior weapon to the Burston.

3) But, of course, it's so ludicrously strong that you don't really need to do so unless you're going particularly deep into defense/survival. But hey, the option's there!also

4) ^^ yes this guy gets it read his post and take it to heart because it is a good post.

1) No, it's not. When Soma meet a real challenge - high level enemies - this weakness is obvios. Gun without ammo can't deal damage, sorry.

Things like Twin Vipers or Spectra is godlike... before you run out of ammo, sorry.
2) Superior in ROF and recoil. End of story.

When you put crit build on Soma, i put something on Burston. I can use more elements, or put fraction mod, or use Heavy Caliber - anything. This is versality.

3) Or solo.

Option and opinion. My Strun don't have ammo problems, why should i care?

4) This guy don't hear about new damage system. Choose your build with 1 element and don't forget about ammo problems.

[letir]

Doesn't change the optimal elemental load out really.  Slap on corrosive to deal with ancients, and heat for other infested, for example.  Non crit weapons will end up having to stack on sub optimal elements instead of being able to use crit to give a massive boost to the effective ones.

Serration.

Heavy caliber.

Point Strike.

Vital Sense.

3 elements.

 

Oops, you running out of space alredy.

[Eltoshan]

 

 

1) No, it's not. When Soma meet a real challenge - high level enemies - this weakness is obvios. Gun without ammo can't deal damage, sorry.

Things like Twin Vipers or Spectra is godlike... before you run out of ammo, sorry.

2) Superior in ROF and recoil. End of story.

When you put crit build on Soma, i put something on Burston. I can use more elements, or put fraction mod, or use Heavy Caliber - anything. This is versality.

3) Or solo.

Option and opinion. My Strun don't have ammo problems, why should i care?

4) This guy don't hear about new damage system. Choose your build with 1 element and don't forget about ammo problems.

 

So basically this is a tacit admission that you're really not good at using the Soma and spray it everywhere and wonder why you run out of ammo. Because, frankly, I've even told you the precise way in which the Soma isn't even that much of an ammo hog, especially if you were to compare it to something like the Supra or whatever. (which, incidentally, has its ammo problems nullified by a rifle ammo mutator mod. Obviously, this takes up a mod slot, but it's a pretty fair price to pay.) On the other hand, you're trying to liken it it to the Twin Vipers/Spectra which basically have half the ammo and nowhere near the damage output and basically have nothing in common other than 'shoot many bullets'. And no, they're not even close to godlike presently, not while the Brakk exists even with the damage falloff.

 

Using incredibly inferior guns, like the Burston since it keeps coming up, isn't going to save you because of how poor its output is relative to a lot of other primaries. Like the Soma. The Soma is more than up to the task of dealing with high level enemies, but apparently you don't actually use it and would not know this based on how you seem to not know how it works. (And no, it's not superior only in ROF/Recoil. Are you seriously trying to suggest that the Burston has higher DPS?)

 

Your Soma won't have ammo problems either if you're actually aiming with it. (or, again, use a mutator mod because there is a devastatingly miniscule amount of content that needs all 8 mod slots on a weapon to be full damage mods. Or even 8 mods to be used in general, really.) And no, being able to use more mods to make a weapon that is worse than the Soma still be worse than the Soma isn't really a good showcase of versatility. Versatility only matters when it actually accomplishes something. Optimally modded, the Soma will always beat a Burston right now, and if you haven't realized that then this entire argument was moot to begin with. Yes, in this magical, hypothetical situation where your only gun is a Soma and you're just holding down the left mouse button over every enemy's torso, not aiming for headshots, and constantly wasting ammo, and where a ridiculously weaker gun (Burston) with the same ammo pool will mysteriously make you last longer despite doing less damage and having burst fire that can cause extra bullets to be wasted (since you want to bring up ammo conservation).... yeah, maybe another gun would be better. Except that's not how reality works because that hypothetical is ridiculously silly.

 

But either way, you can choose to believe the Soma is disadvantaged. That's entirely wrong, obviously, but there's no sense drilling it into someone's head who desperately wants to believe otherwise even when simple math would indicate otherwise. I, on the other hand, am going to sleep 'cause dang it's 5 AM.

 

(also the mods in that spreadsheet don't use heavy caliber, they actually use speed trigger. Personally, I think that's excessive on the Soma, but at that point it hardly matters once you have the other mods in place.)

[letir]

I use Soma on T3 and 50-60 lvl alerts. So, i have some "use" and know problems. Seems like you just can't understand "ammo conservation" or "bullet cost" concept at all.

 

Any way, i believe in rank system (bcs this is only indicator of "balance" from DE). So, if gun with rank 0 (Grakata) can almost beat gun with rank 6 (Soma) in DPS terms, there is no need in "additional disadvantages, bcs it's too freaking good".

Man, it's rank 6, 45% of our rank system. Pretty difficult to obtain. Someday you will meet rank 10, or 15, or 20, and???

 

"Nerf it, bcs i wanna a reason to use my Braton!" - sounds very stupid.

[bobafetthotmail]

Soma has no draw major draw backs BECAUSE its a higher tier

Sure, because all the other weapons with higher tiers being worse than it makes total sense.

 

 

1) No, it's not. When Soma meet a real challenge - high level enemies - this weakness is obvios. Gun without ammo can't deal damage, sorry.

Things like Twin Vipers or Spectra is godlike... before you run out of ammo, sorry.

2) Superior in ROF and recoil. End of story.

When you put crit build on Soma, i put something on Burston. I can use more elements, or put fraction mod, or use Heavy Caliber - anything. This is versality.

3) Or solo.

Option and opinion. My Strun don't have ammo problems, why should i care?

4) This guy don't hear about new damage system. Choose your build with 1 element and don't forget about ammo problems.

 

1) headshots makes you deal around 200 per bullet at a ROF of 15 per second, doing short bursts allow you to keep sniper accuracy if needed, if you are running out of ammo with that kind of DPS and accuracy, then it's your issue as no other weapon can do better than that. The only thing is that armor scaling beyond 40 is plain bad for all enemies, so all weapons deal S#&$ damage now that Corrosive and Piercing are no more armor-ignore.

2)also in crit chance, which makes a ton of difference.

Soma isn't impacted so much by that "lack of versatility" as it does not really need it anyway because of its high DPS.

It is actually positive as you don't need to switch weapons to slaughter different enemy types, which is USEFUL in the Void where you get everything.

 

1) Who cares? Who wann listen your cry about clantech? Nobody.

2) Go and find out. Your words - your evidnce, clanboy.

3) "Spend ammo like crazy". "Weak vs Shields". "Must be in critical build".

You cannot read category "Disadvantages" properly?

1) Who cares? Who wanna listen about your biased opinions about Soma? Nobody.

2) I provided a link with pics. If you ignore it it's not my problem.

3) headshots, cold elemental, every other weapon sucks if it isn't using an elemental build which isn't cheaper so I don't see how that is a drawback.

 

 

You don't see new damage table? There is no universal damage anymore.

And? Soma deals around half Puncture and half Slash, slap a Cold mod and you are dealing the same damage on all mob types apart maybe a boss or two.

 

 

Serration.

Heavy caliber.

Point Strike.

Vital Sense.

3 elements.

 

Oops, you running out of space alredy.

You must have missed the new feature, the A B and C buttons above your mod loadout, that allow you to make specialized anti-faction builds and switch between them relatively fast.

 

That's how any other gun that isn't Soma has to be set up do deal ANY damage beyond level 25 enemies since D2.0.

 

 

 

Any way, i believe in rank system (bcs this is only indicator of "balance" from DE). So, if gun with rank 0 (Grakata) can almost beat gun with rank 6 (Soma) in DPS terms, there is no need in "additional disadvantages, bcs it's too freaking good".

Uh, sure I guess you never used a Grakata. Grakata is basically a melee weapon because CRAPPY ACCURACY that makes it USELESS beyond point blank while Soma can reliably burst-headshot mobs on the other side of the map.

Also I like how you decide to ignore how other weapons with same or higher Mastery Rank requirement are inferior, just because you need to pay a morphics to join a clan (on top of the actual gun costs) to get them.

Because that would make your argument about Soma having a higher MR so being very good invalid.

 

Man, it's rank 7-8 and requires a S#&$ ton of credits and resources farmed in places I can only access with keys to build, yet a weapon that can be crafted with whatever I have already in my inventory by MR6 is so better? Wtf?

 

 

Someday you will meet rank 10, or 15, or 20, and???

Max mastery rank currently is "nearly 13". Afaik they don't plan to go so much beyond that.

Edited December 20, 2013 by bobafetthotmail

[letir]

Place Stabilizer on Grakata, accuracy is fine.

[NeroGrave]

Please, nerf Mk-1 Braton as well. Its dealing much higher damage to Grineers than before! Because dealing 5 dmg on headshot to Grineers like before is more "fun".

[Raijinmeister]

It's more fun that way. 

So miss the majority of your shots is fun to you ?k,grab a gorgon and have a bad day...

Such useless thread

[Hallowieners]

Place Stabilizer on Grakata, accuracy is fine.

Use up a mod slot.

 

Please, nerf Mk-1 Braton as well. Its dealing much higher damage to Grineers than before! Because dealing 5 dmg on headshot to Grineers like before is more "fun".

Okay, now please tell me how this contributes to the thread?

 

So miss the majority of your shots is fun to you ?k,grab a gorgon and have a bad day...

Such useless thread

Such useless post.

[Dalu__Ka]

Bam!

 

 

 

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