Penta Is Mocking Me.

[Mephiste]

There is a big difference between Grenades and a Grenade launcher.

DE isn't mocking you at all, really, They just added a grenade launcher. While grenade themselves might never be added to the game because they work very differently than a Grenade Launcher.

[ReiganCross]

@ReiganCross

The reason DE wont make grenades like your hoping is that abilities fill the same exact roles as your grenades would.

 

I hate thar argument... You're basically telling me that we have the super-power of "Throwing a Grenade"... I just hate how stupid that sounds. It's like saying that it's a power to be able to use a gun! (Because it's not as easy as it sounds. Kind of like throwing a grenade, really.) And i know there's game-mechanic related reason and whatnot, i kind of agree that "Press 4 to kill room" would be made less if you have another button that essentially do exactly that... But i just can't shake the fact that you're telling me that shooting lightning from our fingertips is about the same thing as tossing a grenade.

 

And yeah, this is where my rationalization falls apart. I agree about the gameplay thing, i don't think it's necessarily true, but i can see where it comes from. But this is not a satisfactory answer to the problem. 

 

 

There is a big difference between Grenades and a Grenade launcher.

DE isn't mocking you at all, really, They just added a grenade launcher. While grenade themselves might never be added to the game because they work very differently than a Grenade Launcher.

 

Yup, but here's the thing. A Grenade Launcher is different then a grenade mainly because the explosive tossed from the launcher is tossed from a far greater distance then our arm is able to. The Penta is about the same as a grenade launcher as my arm can be considered an apple launcher. The throw distance in the Penta is about the same as all of Vauban's power, which means that if Vauban took the ammo from the penta, somehow managed to prime it without the trigger mechanism of the Penta, he would have about the same effect! Now i can understand Vauban's ridiculously short throw distance, he barely moves his body to do the throw, but we're talking about a tiny explosive thrown from a rifle! It should go at least 4 times faster and 10 times farther! And don't you dare give me some bs about the weight of that grenade, i'm carrying 540 of the damn thing, it cannot be THAT heavy!

 

Which means that the Penta is NOT a Grenade Launcher, but a Grenade inside a ridiculously looking weapon because they can't be asked to make it be some ACTUAL grenade!... (Hell, at least they could have made it into a secondary throwing weapon. Then we'd only have 210 explosives. Still kind of dumb but at least only half as stupid.)

Edited December 31, 2013 by ReiganCross

[Azure_Kytia]

The PENTA is actually more like a remote mine laying device. 

How often do grenades have remote detonation devices?

[ReiganCross]

The PENTA is actually more like a remote mine laying device. 

How often do grenades have remote detonation devices?

 

|You're about right, all we need is for the damn grenades to stick where you place it and bam, perfect mine laying device.

[Azure_Kytia]

Sticky mod confirmed for 2014. I hope.

[Tsukinoki]

@ReiganCross
And no matter how much you hate that argument, the fact of the matter is that when you reduce it down to the effects that is the case.

What is the difference between an Excalibur releasing a blinding flash of light to stun and then blind the enemies for a period of time and throwing a flashbang into the middle of a group of enemies to stun them and blind them for a period of time?
Only one that I can think of is that the grenade can do it from a safe distance and in that way would be better than Excaliburs Radial Blind.
Whats the difference between throwing an orb of lighting at enemies or throwing an electric grenade at them?
Whats the difference between creating a ring of fire around an ember using Fire Blast and throwing an incendiary grenade that creates a burning patch of ground? (EDIT: grenade could be done at a safe distance, meaning that with Embers low survivability it would arguably be better, especially considering it would replace Fireball and Fire Blast.)
Whats the difference between ash using smoke bomb or throwing a smoke grenade into the middle of a group of enemies beyond it being ranged (and therefore arguably better)?
Whats the difference between the bounce grenade idea you had and Vauban's bounce pads?  Or the tesla grenade and the mobile turret idea you had?

That's the problem with the grenades that you want.
They would have the exact same effect as the abilities.
The only difference is that they would look different between tossing the grenade or using the ability.
The effect would be the same.  And that is the problem with the grenades you want.

Edited December 31, 2013 by Tsukinoki

[ReiganCross]

@ReiganCross

And no matter how much you hate that argument, the fact of the matter is that when you reduce it down to the effects that is the case.

What is the difference between an Excalibur releasing a blinding flash of light to stun and then blind the enemies for a period of time and throwing a flashbang into the middle of a group of enemies to stun them and blind them for a period of time?

Only one that I can think of is that the grenade can do it from a safe distance and in that way would be better than Excaliburs Radial Blind.

Whats the difference between throwing an orb of lighting at enemies or throwing an electric grenade at them?

 

Not really much of a difference... You're right, over-all... It's just kind of sad that sometimes our superpowers is the equivalent of a man with a gun, instead os some really wacky ninja ones. But that is that, it's just sad...

 

I could argue that this only means that some powers are really that lame that it's only the equivalent of a guy and his gun and maybe those powers should be made a little more effective and awesome, like Radial Blind expelling everyone in a circle as hard as Banshee's Sonic Boom but without the damage, but that would be just attacking the individual skills by themself, the argument would stay. Although, using the same argument, you can argue that the Penta is dangerously close to be a Warframe power that became a gun.

 

So yeah, it all just comes around to Penta pretty much taunting the guys that wants Grenades. Although now it seems more like an attempt to patronize us by giving a cheap around-the-rules approach. (I still advocate the idea that the Penta as it stands should be a secondary throwing weapon with the only change being that it can be affected by Firestorm. Unless they decide that the Penta now has the throwing distance of the Kunai Knifes, that distance would be acceptable for a Grenade Launcher.)

[Tsukinoki]

@ReiganCross
I do agree that it is kind of sad that some of the abilities are the equivalent of grenades and that they need to be looked into, but then you open a whole new can of worms with that.  And I do see the argument that the Penta is very close to the line, probably too close, but I can see why they put it in: as an attempt to appease the people who wanted some form of grenades in the game.  

The request for grenades has been in since pretty much the beginning of CBT, but DEs answer has been the same the entire time.  I think they wanted to try to appease you guys by giving you something while also skirting dangerously close to what they said previously and therefore keeping their word: they said they would never put in grenades for tenno, they just never said anything about grenade launchers.

[HillsAndTheSea]

Not really much of a difference... You're right, over-all... It's just kind of sad that sometimes our superpowers is the equivalent of a man with a gun, instead os some really wacky ninja ones. But that is that, it's just sad...

 

 

well yeah if you look at it like that, but thats like saying a knife and a pillow are similar because they can both be used to kill someone.

 

the penta does not taunt people who want grenades because their is a big difference between a grenade launcher and grenades.

 

the difference being, by choosing the grenade launcher, you cannot carry another primary weapon, meaning you will sacrifice versatility for sheer firepower, similar to the ogris, there is a risk of self harm when using this weapon in close quarters, where much of warframe takes place.

 

granted, the penta can use some tweaks and has a bit too many advantages, but thats an entirely different subject