Levelups Being Entirely Loot Dependent Is Terrible

[Zetalleon]

The natural stat growth when leveling is important when things are dropped based.

The system like this in other MMOs is fine because characters get stronger and their base values increase per level, so at max level even when naked you have an ok chance of facing regular monsters around their level.

MMOs characters can use items purcahsed from NPC or crafted themselves as substitute before they go for the RNG loot. We don't have that either.

This is especially worst because there is no "garenteed" mod drop in this game where you are always for sure to get a specific type of mod.

[Vo1tair3]

I like the mod2.0 system. Once you get the idea it becomes apparent that it is way more robust than the previous iteration. But as the OP said shields and health are far too important to leave to chance as it will seriously hinder your progress.

I did like 5 runs on tolstoj and what i have to show for it is a 10% increase in armor.Someone else could have it way worse as it is a well known fact that the gods of RNG can be pretty cruel.

I really dig the suggestion as it not only allows you to progress it also gives a pretty tangible sense of your character's advancement.

I am actually fond of the new mod system as well, just not the obscene prices x_x I ran tolstoj once and got 3 mods (+25% stamina, +10% armor, +20% shotgun multishot) so yeah the whole RNG thing is not a good thing to replace level ups with xD

[Stew360]

So you get all four abilities at the start. This doesn't change the statement that advancing beyond a level 1 warframe's power is entirely dependent on what loot luck you have, and a guy with bad loot luck will be completely boned for an indefinite period of time.

The "passive lame upgrade" was critical when I was starting out, had no good mods, and wanted to make actual progression. Having something even slightly resembling those would be a godsend for anyone whose luck gives them a mod drought.

As I said, the system is a fantastic way of replacing the mod system. It is a terrible way of replacing the character advancement system.

wrong and you cant have a that bad loots drop states ITS IMPOSSIBLE youll find melee damage loots and power boost loots for sure the quality will vary but still your 100 % sure to find some of each types

even if you found a cheap ones you can NOW upgrade it Trougth the fusion PS: notice that the price show on the TOP of the UI is buggued and do not reflex the true price of a fusion

Fusion actually cost just a little more than equiping your mods in the last build now this cost come TO » 0 so now you ahve much more possibilitys whiout having to pay a fee for each changes on your mods

you can go Way beyong whats was possible in previous build

but to make peoples like you seams to be those (( who dont understand well the new systhem )) Happy i think they should have give you some few cheap mods that replace your old skills tree passive skills who as like few isignificant % value lol

The U7 systhem is a whole lot better it make NON uber potatoes charge Build more valuable and more custumisable

It introduce more custumisation and way better Ui representations

I think all these tread should never have been created at the first place because most of you dont even understand the new systhem

Its more like i was OP and iam not anymore U7 is garbage

Its not like that yes you have to go back and play in lower end regions til you can upgrade a little but you are far to be as level 1 and far to depend more on loots than before its almost the same thing but in a different ways a more OPEN one ;)

Edited March 19, 2013 by Stew360

[Stew360]

It seems like they went "Hey people are maxed out and bored, let's reset everything they have and make em have to farm it all up again... except this time make it take WAY longer. Instead of actually adding any content"

---

They ad new mobs , new boss , new area , new environements , new weapons , and NEW FRAMES

they ad new representation of the mods wich are AWESOME it remind me colecting the magic the gathering card , its awesome it look good but it also balance the game better and make possibility for build more custumisable and more balance overall

Been &!$$ off and compleatly trashtalking awesome devs and dedictated ones IS UNFAIR to them and to the game

their intention is to make the game better and they did , at least the let you keep all your frames blueprint (( old mods as a fusion combustible )) and credit , they could have WIPE the entire thing and make you start from scratch

they didnt because they know most peoples do not want to redo everything all blueprint farming etc.. they are dedictated and care about this comunity so stop be so arsh

Edited March 19, 2013 by Stew360

[Demonocolips]

without passive improvement the new system is utterly #*($%%@ and terrible.

unless artifact drops are given to nearly every enemy you kill then this system can NOT replace the old system.

it could work but only if we get so many drops that it seems like we are actively looting the bodies of our enemies.

otherwise just make it so that the levels you gain also give improvements based upon the old system as well as the new system.

there has to be more to leveling then just making your weapon or frame larger somehow so you can tack on a few extra baubles.

[CosyPigeon]

I said making our abilities being entirely loot dependant would suck, I suppose I should have made more noise. +1 to this topic.

[Maeka]

I agree with the OP on this. I can get used to it with time I guess, but it does make it more farming less leveling dependent.

[NeverKaiser]

I just have a problem with credits, did not expect the selling price to drop like a meteor in this update (50 credits per mod really?) now I don't have enough to craft an orokin reactor(should be grateful I could get one but still), and I'm stuck with a lvl 0 crush that can only kill ONE enemy at a time because the range is TERRIBLE (cries in a corner) either make power range mods more common or at least make it easier to make money so I can level one of Mags only decent skill (or at least make the other three skills more useful) makes me wonder why I even maxed all my stuff in the first place. Though I do like how non supercharged warframes can use their ults now so that's a plus LOL.

Anyway I like changes, and I love this game as well as the people who make this game but they might wanna keep some things (though I'm suprised that they finished the update today but it's really glitchy and problematic ex: I can't see the chat anymore) and I do admit that Mag was too OP in some cases, and I only excpected her to be nerfed to where she would only kill around 10-15 at a time instead of 30-60 per crush, but this is too much of a nerf for an ult skill which costs 100 energy (which is now basically ALL of my energy) imo like at least give her rhino skin when she uses crush :[, at this point Mag is just a suit with a chick inside it... I also heard that Nyx's absorb is alot worse now than it already was (someone comfirm this for me LOL). These are just my thoughts about this update, so I understand that DE is working really hard to get this beta to work, but it almost seems like the stuff that happened is more like they just implented something that looked good on paper, but in the end didn't entirely work out.

This is all just my feedback on the current version, other than that not much to really talk about since I still love this game, I pray that the game developers succeed in getting this game out of beta with the fewest bugs possible(or no bugs at all) so good luck~ :)

[Ronyn]

MOD 2.0 is great.

This does not mean the leveling system itself is great.

The fact that a level 30 has absolutely no inherent advantage outside of slots for potential mods doesnt feel right.

[UnderYourBed]

OP

+1

[SirGhosty]

+1 even with maxed out sheilds and health you wil be no where near your privious strength.

[MJ12]

wrong and you cant have a that bad loots drop states ITS IMPOSSIBLE youll find melee damage loots and power boost loots for sure the quality will vary but still your 100 % sure to find some of each types

Mod drops are random. Thus there is a chance to have "a that bad loots drop states". It's UNLIKELY but very possible. More important is the edge case of "guy gets bad mods but not quite as bad as the extreme case" and plenty of people are suffering through that.

even if you found a cheap ones you can NOW upgrade it Trougth the fusion PS: notice that the price show on the TOP of the UI is buggued and do not reflex the true price of a fusion

Correct. Unfortunately this only makes the system less bad. It does not make "replacing all progression with lootfinding" good.

Fusion actually cost just a little more than equiping your mods in the last build now this cost come TO » 0 so now you ahve much more possibilitys whiout having to pay a fee for each changes on your mods

you can go Way beyong whats was possible in previous build

but to make peoples like you seams to be those (( who dont understand well the new systhem )) Happy i think they should have give you some few cheap mods that replace your old skills tree passive skills who as like few isignificant % value lol

The U7 systhem is a whole lot better it make NON uber potatoes charge Build more valuable and more custumisable

It introduce more custumisation and way better Ui representations

I think all these tread should never have been created at the first place because most of you dont even understand the new systhem

Its more like i was OP and iam not anymore U7 is garbage

Its not like that yes you have to go back and play in lower end regions til you can upgrade a little but you are far to be as level 1 and far to depend more on loots than before its almost the same thing but in a different ways a more OPEN one ;)

I'm not arguing for being "op" like I was "before". I'm arguing that the system is fundamentally flawed because it makes level-ups a lot less useful, it removes a lot of incentive for playing (you had the Skinner box before of level-ups + loot + crafting, you only have the latter two. This is bad for game longevity. Also I personally have had plenty of bad mod luck. It's not difficult in this system to theoretically be stuck for hours because you're not getting the survivability mods you need.

This is why some sort of passive no-mods-required upgrading is necessary. So if you're getting shafted you can still progress.

[Scowlface2]

I have to agree with MJ12 here. Used to be, I could strip out every mod in a lvl 30 frame and so long as I played intelligently, could go on the later planets past Earth without too much trouble.

Now it's practically impossible. The weapons and frames need their passive bonuses from levelling to stay at least marginally competitive against higher level enemies.

This seriously needs to be fixed because otherwise the game then becomes un-fun and not worth the investment of time and effort.

Edited March 19, 2013 by Scowlface2

[Mampara]

+1

[Draketh]

100% agree with this stuff.

While I do like the new mod system .. or at least the idea behind it, I can't help but feel frustrated over the fact I have been back in low systems since this launched unable to boost my health, shields, or armor on my 29 loki. My weapon mods are coming along ok .. but we either need passives or base mods with each frame for said stats to begin or new players will find this game next to impossible and grindy and walk away. I absolutely dislike feeling like I need to depend on drop luck to even get mobile and worse yet feeling as if I NEED to buy from the cash shop for the basics. I have no problem supporting a game but don't make me feel as if I have to in order to hope I RANDOMLY get the mods I need to move forward again.

[SlyBoots]

alright, at least at a superficial level this new system seems to have flaws. take a look at a frame: 10 card slots. if you're fond of the frames skills, you still have 6 left to customize it. but wait, you probably need some health, shields & energy so better make due with the 3 slots left. 3 cards to costumize your frame compared to about 10 mod slots in the old system - doesn't seem that much more flexible, now does it?

take a look at your collection of weapons (the same is true for frames but you probably don't have as much). you probably will want increased magazine size, reload speed and fire rate for each and every one of them (with exceptions) to combat the increasing amount of enemies/less downtime/bigger fights so you gotta find and fuse a whole lot of the same cards/cores for what once was a matter of getting experience. i really don't want to know what people who thought the old system was a grind have to say about this...

Edited March 19, 2013 by SlyBoots

[FanZeroEx]

OP is spot on.

In Update 6 we had the tree progression system:

Naked warframe -> filler stats (guaranteed as you level up) -> mods (luck based, mostly crap you would sell, but sometimes you get lucky)

In Update 7 we have:

Naked warframe -> mods (you better hope the dice rolls in your favor)

So now not only orakin system is completely luck based, but leveling up system is too, Which is bad. Lucky ones will feel great, they will feel like a system is rewarding them. The unlucky ones will feel like slapped in the face with wet rug.

Conclusion: increasing shields, hp, etc with level ups should be reimplemented in some form.

[neKroMancer]

alright, at least at a superficial level this new system seems to have flaws. take a look at a frame: 10 card slots. if you're fond of the frames skills, you still have 6 left to customize it. but wait, you probably need some health, shields & energy so better make due with the 3 slots left. 3 cards to costumize your frame compared to about 10 mod slots in the old system - doesn't seem that much more flexible, now does it?

take a look at your collection of weapons (the same is true for frames but you probably don't have as much). you probably will want increased magazine size, reload speed and fire rate for each and every one of them (with exceptions) to combat the increasing amount of enemies/less downtime/bigger fights so you gotta find and fuse a whole lot of the same cards/cores for what once was a matter of getting experience. i really don't want to know what people who thought the old system was a grind have to say about this...

In the old system you didn't equip health/shield mods? I find that unlikely.

10 slots in update6 - at least one or two for 99 shield capacity, one or two for health capacity, - that's left you with 6-8 mod slots, mostly six slots left or less. Not to mention that some frames didn't even hve access to 10 mod slots before UP7 (Rhino for sure). The rest of the tree was inanimously agreed to be filler nodes which served only to fill the tree and made it looked like one. What all players wanted were mod slots, not these fillers.

Range weapons were filled with multishot stacking and armor piercing, others mods were largely irrelevant in update6. Don't forget about useless filler nodes like critical damage nodes in bolt weapons and clip size increse in the Bronco.

10 slots in update7 - Don't like radial blast? take it out. Don't like shield polarize? take it out. Don't like shock? take it out. In frames with few worthless powers or less than 10 mod slots, this update is a godsend.

I agree that progression based purely on RNG is pretty bad idea but don't forget what it was like in update6 which was just yesterday. Don't overglorify it.

[SlyBoots]

coincidentally nowhere did i overglorify the old system, just made two comparisons, don't put words in my mouth. please do note that i even said "on a superficial level [...] seems". i wasn't even saying that you didn't take health/shield mods before so your question in that direction is rather pointless. but trying to answer anyway and bear with me here, you could at least try and go without 'em because you know what? you had some health/shields (and enough energy) from "pointless filler nodes". now? not so much.

multishot has been nerfed (for rifles at least) and balanced with a high mod capacity cost, but what you may have noticed is that we now seem to have other pretty much mandatory mods/cards.

and that leaving out "useless" skills is in favour of the new system seems rather questionable when these probably should have been addressed by making them, you know, useful/less situational (seems to be the term that's thrown around on the forums).

Edited March 19, 2013 by SlyBoots

[LordShade]

I hate RNG based systems. The Mod system currently is good. But basing the entire stat progression system off the mods as well?

Get out.

+1 to OP

[OmegaPaladin]

I remember my first solo missions on Mercury. I died like a dozen times before beating the first mission, but I was getting stronger. Every level up was a chance to improve my frame. I'll tell you that early on I'd rather go for the supposed filler, versus some of the low level mods you would get. +25 health or shields is a godsend at that level, and some of the weapon boosts were great. Early charge damage was the difference between Grineer dying or not with a single shot. It kept me in the game.

I see another option for level ups - three or four stat bars that you can spend points on, with diminishing returns on the high end. This gives the powerup curve a logrithmic (IIRC) shape, and discourages powergaming over balanced leveling. The diminished returns point would be different for different frames - Loki and Trinity would have is easier on power, Volt would have it easy on shields, Rhino would get lots of shields and health but not much power. It's same idea, just with the sense of choice present.

My option or MJ12's would make it a lot more fun to start and encourage new players to keep playing. Regular players are the ones who buy the platinum who keep the lights on.

[ZAPTONE]

Level ups should do something besides giving more mod points

[saiou]

+1 such thing is so painful

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[Kuhl-Ka]

I was hoping there would be a basic level up system for everything, then mods would just be bonus customization. At the very least, warframes should upgrade their health, armor, and shields to improve parity with mission levels. Right now, if I try to go into a level 30+ mission with my level 30 Loki with no mods, I'll be dead in seconds. 75 health and 75 shields is pathetic for a level 30 warframe.

[Ashsflames]

I too was entirely expecting only the mod system to be overhauled, perhaps to fix the dominant strategy of multishot and armour-piercing mods. I damn well wasn't expecting the entire passive tree, the only thing that actually let people start improving in the earlygame, to be completely removed. I've been stuck farming Vor for hours, and the tiny amount of shield increase that I get from having luckily received that card is still next to nothing, despite having upgraded it to +120%, because I'm still missing Health, Speed, and Power. Sitting around farming the same levels just to try and give myself even the possibility to make progress is NOT fun at all, and a terrible design decision to have implemented as we went into open beta.