Blessing Is A Little Too Strong In Its Current State.

[-CM-Syein]

Trinity has the highest single target dps in the game when EV spec. Late game - 3+ hours survival or 200 waves in a defense.

That is because she had her team to be with her. And individual mobs can also be dps with gun, as DE already nerf link before. 

That 3hrs+ of survival doesn't make up of only a team with 4 trinities I presume. 

[Guest Shibboleet]

That is because she had her team to be with her. And individual mobs can also be dps with gun, as DE already nerf link before. 

That 3hrs+ of survival doesn't make up of only a team with 4 trinities I presume. 

Vectis headshot = 500k-ish = one shot with roar and prime - only because of crit + headshot weird multipliers

Trinity EV = one shot on the first tick with roar and prime

Other guns = Not one shot or even close

 

The 3+ hours does involve a trinity however. Do that with a team consisting of no Trinity

[-CM-Syein]

Vectis headshot = 500k-ish = one shot with roar and prime - only because of crit + headshot weird multipliers

Trinity EV = one shot on the first tick with roar and prime

Other guns = Not one shot or even close

 

The 3+ hours does involve a trinity however. Do that with a team consisting of no Trinity

umm sniper overall in this game is suck in compared to other gun. Im not even talking about one shot, I'm talking about killing enemy. 

Most gun could had outdps vectis overall despite them not being able to one shot. 

Nuker can, surely you should had seen a sight of enemies floating in the air, slowly moving, with no weapon by a team of Nova, Rhino, Loki? 

Mag and Oberon can regenerate health + shield combine, it doesn't necessary had to be Trinity's blessing. 

 

And abilities cost energy, even with energy vampire, it doesn't guarantees infinite energy either

 

. 

[Guest Shibboleet]

umm sniper overall in this game is suck in compared to other gun. Im not even talking about one shot, I'm talking about killing enemy. 

Most gun could had outdps vectis overall despite them not being able to one shot. 

Nuker can, surely you should had seen a sight of enemies floating in the air, slowly moving, with no weapon by a team of Nova, Rhino, Loki? 

Mag and Oberon can regenerate health + shield combine, it doesn't necessary had to be Trinity's blessing. 

 

And abilities cost energy, even with energy vampire, it doesn't guarantees infinite energy either

 

. 

First line: you can do 500k hit on something in 2 seconds with no set up?

Third line: I don't know what you're saying here.

Fourth line: Blessing = immunity, the health and shield gain are not important compared to this

Sixth line: EV spec = infinite energy

Edited January 11, 2014 by Shibboleet

[thejynxed]

Idk which frame you talk about. 

Nothing of this seems to be the case with my Trinity...

really, don´t talk about a frame you clearly know nothing about...

 

I main a Trinity, try playing something more difficult than Venus.

[-XeqtR]

umm sniper overall in this game is suck in compared to other gun. Im not even talking about one shot, I'm talking about killing enemy. 

Most gun could had outdps vectis overall despite them not being able to one shot. 

Nuker can, surely you should had seen a sight of enemies floating in the air, slowly moving, with no weapon by a team of Nova, Rhino, Loki? 

Mag and Oberon can regenerate health + shield combine, it doesn't necessary had to be Trinity's blessing. 

 

And abilities cost energy, even with energy vampire, it doesn't guarantees infinite energy either

 

. 

Can't tell if trolling or purposely making it so his words make no sense at all..

 

If you use the beastial wrath with the jedi force pull power, monsters will fly to home base and die quick.  Healer uses bright light of blue and makes monsters remember of water and they will try to not drown. Then beast frame use ground slam to shock-wave enemy feet making them fall and not move. When big fire boom monster hit the ground he will get back up, this is because everyone knows that boom monsters backs are tough from carrying their team. This is where you victory: while big boom monster is on ground, jedi use force pick up rocks while healer uses blue water again and makes boom monster die from drowning. As you see, the healer frame is best for drown.

[ThePresident777]

But if you mod it right,you can get the whole "infinite invuln"<br />Where you bassicaly stay God Mode´d for 20 seconds for 24 energy,while regenerating 27<br />So yeah,I say probably make it have RANGE<br />That would seem decent.

 

And if you nerf it then you need unobtanium mods to get any use out of it.  The mods are the problem.

[-CM-Syein]

First line: you can do 500k hit on something in 2 seconds with no set up?

Third line: I don't know what you're saying here.

Fourth line: Blessing = immunity, the health and shield gain are not important compared to this

Sixth line: EV spec = infinite energy

Not many mobs possibly need that much hit to be kill? Also, link reflect incoming dps from enemies to another enemy. So basically the dps of the enemy doesn't necessary kill the other enemy. 

I'm saying there are others combination of frames that completely stop/ slow down enemies movement without them being able to harm you. 

4th, I already compared blessing to invisibility, and the effect between individual + team. Blessing doesn't mean it will always necessary. 

You need energy to gain energy, plus, it's range is short so it's hard to cast the ability without getting hit from enemies, you need blessing to go well with energy vampire as well. Also, if the enemy die, you can't get more energy than you hope for. 

[-CM-Syein]

Can't tell if trolling or purposely making it so his words make no sense at all..

 

If you use the beastial wrath with the jedi force pull power, monsters will fly to home base and die quick.  Healer uses bright light of blue and makes monsters remember of water and they will try to not drown. Then beast frame use ground slam to shock-wave enemy feet making them fall and not move. When big fire boom monster hit the ground he will get back up, this is because everyone knows that boom monsters backs are tough from carrying their team. This is where you victory: while big boom monster is on ground, jedi use force pick up rocks while healer uses blue water again and makes boom monster die from drowning. As you see, the healer frame is best for drown.

he said vectis capable to one shotting the enemy dealing high dps but link is better. 

 

What I mean is, snipers overall are suck in this game. There are plenty of other guns capable of dealing higher dps than vectis, those guns doesn't necessary need one-shot. 

 

Who doesn't know that healer frame is nice? But doesn't mean it's necessary. There are alternatives

[thejynxed]

Link gives immunity (or at least normally does) to knockdown effects

 

Slow right now, but when they release natural talent it will be really fast; not really a weakness anyway with the roughly 1.5-2 second cast

A lot of abilities self root. Listing them all would be a waste of time as it would fill this page.

 

Any frame can be energy drained..why is this always listed as a weakness to trinity?

 

Shield and health don't matter when balancing late game as you get one shot no matter what frame you bring.

 

Link always gives you a 75% damage reduction

 

Modding the other way reduces blessings effectiveness down to where it should be; an instant castt heal that full heals the party and gives a little bit of a breather.

 

Stamina does not matter in a world full of Zoren coptering

 

Well targets die if they are level 10. It is a great single target CC but that is all. If many want this buffed it will be her only heal.

 

The corpus damage is the same on any frame modified by armor

 

Link doesn't give total immunity to KBs, but CAN reflect them - if they are shockwaves. You sometimes get pushed back (and when this happens, it's the same timing and animation delay as a full KB). There are other KBs that Link does not either stop nor reflect (Shield Bash from Grineer Shield Lancers comes to mind). With this in mind, you are not always running around with Link up, especially in Blessing builds. The energy management is very tight at times when it's your job to put up Blessing every X amount of seconds (28.2 at max duration) and you're the only Trin in the group or your group doesn't all run Energy Siphon. Blessing offers zero protection against KBs (or stuns or status procs) at all.

 

Not everyone uses those wonky Zorens (DE has contemplated removing that effect entirely from all weapons such as Fang that can currently mimic it, more than likely in Melee 2.0).

 

It's *supposed* to always give 75% reduction. Like numerous things in Warframe, this is not always 100% true. (An interesting sidenote: The wiki states that Link doesn't work on Stalker. This is also not entirely true.)

 

The energy drain is listed because she's the -only- frame that can't do anything useful at zero energy. She has slow movement, low stamina, mediocre shields/health/armor. She has nothing going for her if she loses her energy pool from a drain. This is a big weakness, when even low-armor/health/shield frames like Loki still have higher stamina pools & speed going for them.

 

There is two parts to her Blessing cast - the casting time (delay) 1.2s and the animation (delay) (currently unknown). It isn't *quite* as bad as before where you had to wait for BOTH of those to finish before the Blessing effect appeared, but it's still more of a delay than anything like say Rhino Stomp, Avalanche, or Molecular Prime. This ability is extremely sensitive to timing, energy management, and lag.

 

I was referring to direct hits to her shields, not armor.

Edited January 11, 2014 by thejynxed

[Guest Shibboleet]

Link doesn't give total immunity to KBs, but CAN reflect them - if they are shockwaves. You sometimes get pushed back (and when this happens, it's the same timing and animation delay as a full KB). There are other KBs that Link does not either stop nor reflect (Shield Bash from Grineer Shield Lancers comes to mind). With this in mind, you are not always running around with Link up, especially in Blessing builds. The energy management is very tight at times when it's your job to put up Blessing every X amount of seconds (28.2 at max duration) and you're the only Trin in the group or your group doesn't all run Energy Siphon. Blessing offers zero protection against KBs (or stuns or status procs) at all.

 

Not everyone uses those wonky Zorens (DE has contemplated removing that effect entirely from all weapons such as Fang that can currently mimic it, more than likely in Melee 2.0).

 

It's *supposed* to always give 75% reduction. Like numerous things in Warframe, this is not always 100% true. (An interesting sidenote: The wiki states that Link doesn't work on Stalker. This is also not entirely true.)

 

The energy drain is listed because she's the -only- frame that can't do anything useful at zero energy. She has slow movement, low stamina, mediocre shields/health/armor. She has nothing going for her if she loses her energy pool from a drain. This is a big weakness, when even low-armor/health/shield frames like Loki still have higher stamina pools & speed going for them.

 

There is two parts to her Blessing cast - the casting time (delay) 1.2s and the animation (delay) (currently unknown). It isn't *quite* as bad as before where you had to wait for BOTH of those to finish before the Blessing effect appeared, but it's still more of a delay than anything like say Rhino Stomp, Avalanche, or Molecular Prime. This ability is extremely sensitive to timing, energy management, and lag.

 

I was referring to direct hits to her shields, not armor.

Link does help, I only brought it up as a small solution. It helps, but isn't actually needed in a blessing build.

 

They did remove coptering at one point in time, but then reinstalled the bug after enough complaints were voiced. Right now, currently, stamina is not an issue with coptering. If you are playing late game content survival and not coptering then you shouldn't be there in the first place.

 

With energy drain any frame is left weak if this happens to them against enemies that can one shot you, and even low-mid tier any frame is left with no abilities to use. This is also assuming that you like to farm nothing but infested >.>

 

The delay on the cast time isn't bad. If you play with a timer or get used to the duration you can tell when you need to run behind a box/sprint away to recast without dying. Sure, you or an ally might die, but you can then rez because you, or they, have that immunity up. Avalanche and Crush also have a long cast time, but are still used situationally, however this does not make them bad.

 

 

If I recall correctly shields take the same amount of damage no matter what your armor is; corpus shields or tenno shields.

Edited January 11, 2014 by Shibboleet

[Guest Shibboleet]

Not many mobs possibly need that much hit to be kill? Also, link reflect incoming dps from enemies to another enemy. So basically the dps of the enemy doesn't necessary kill the other enemy.

I'm saying there are others combination of frames that completely stop/ slow down enemies movement without them being able to harm you.

4th, I already compared blessing to invisibility, and the effect between individual + team. Blessing doesn't mean it will always necessary.

You need energy to gain energy, plus, it's range is short so it's hard to cast the ability without getting hit from enemies, you need blessing to go well with energy vampire as well. Also, if the enemy die, you can't get more energy than you hope for.

Go kill non infested level 1000's and come back to me.

Energy Vampire has a long range when you actually build for it. It will also restore 42 energy per tick with max overextended.

Edited January 11, 2014 by Shibboleet

[-CM-Syein]

Go kill non infested level 1000's and come back to me.

Energy Vampire has a long range when you actually build for it. It will also restore 42 energy per tick with max overextended.

Why don't you go and do that then? Remember this whole game doesn't center around top level. 

When you built on an ability, the likely don't have slot for different ability, you required range, duration, power strength, energy efficiency. Plus corrupt mod can sometimes be a pain. You have to sacrifice something to built toward another. 

[Guest Shibboleet]

Why don't you go and do that then? Remember this whole game doesn't center around top level. 

When you built on an ability, the likely don't have slot for different ability, you required range, duration, power strength, energy efficiency. Plus corrupt mod can sometimes be a pain. You have to sacrifice something to built toward another. 

I have. https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/147889-recruiting-tenn-os-the-1-end-game-clan/ ; and I have been posting about end game this whole time.

And I have also been posting about how there are two different builds. You kept bring up EV so I had assumed you wanted to discuss EV build.

Edited January 11, 2014 by Shibboleet

[-CM-Syein]

I have. https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/147889-recruiting-tenn-os-the-1-end-game-clan/ ; and I have been posting about end game this whole time.

And I have also been posting about how there are two different builds. You kept bring up EV so I had assumed you wanted to discuss EV build.

Guild recruiting?......

And no, I'm not the one who bring up EV,

 

I bring up the point of costing energy when using abilities, as well as energy getting stolen etc. 

You're the one who bring up EV, read again. 

 

Here is your copy and paste: EV build is Well, EV, and blessing for quick team play heals. If anything the 3 second immunity is what blessing should be baseline and unaffected by duration mods. I'm unsure as to how they could change this frame without breaking it completely, it most likely will need an entire rework. 

I never mentioned anything about EV until you mentioned it. 

[Guest Shibboleet]

Guild recruiting?......

And no, I'm not the one who bring up EV,

 

I bring up the point of costing energy when using abilities, as well as energy getting stolen etc. 

You're the one who bring up EV, read again. 

 

Here is your copy and paste: EV build is Well, EV, and blessing for quick team play heals. If anything the 3 second immunity is what blessing should be baseline and unaffected by duration mods. I'm unsure as to how they could change this frame without breaking it completely, it most likely will need an entire rework. 

I never mentioned anything about EV until you mentioned it. 

Right, I mentioned EV build, but you kept poking it after I mentioned it.

The recruitment post has pictures of proof of late game. It is easier to give you a consolidated link.

Every frame has ability cost and subject to infested energy drain, this is not a valid argument to defend a 30 second immunity.

 

 

OH thats why I typed that out. It was in response to you stating that nerfing the 30 second immunity would make her a non support frame. Then I mentioned that EV is Support and then explained the build to you because it seems some skip over that build. - context is key when copy/pasta

Edited January 11, 2014 by Shibboleet

[-CM-Syein]

Right, I mentioned EV build, but you kept poking it after I mentioned it.

The recruitment post has pictures of proof of late game. It is easier to give you a consolidated link.

Every frame has ability cost and subject to infested energy drain, this is not a valid argument to defend a 30 second immunity.

When you mentioned it, assuming it should be included in argument as well 

Proof of late game is not the point here. So basically, if currently the highest survival is 3hr, then it considered late game, then later on, there are people who made it to 4 hr and so on etc, so which one is late game?

When I said energy drain, I mean to compared trinity during blessing, and loki during invisibility. I had never once mentioned nor compared it to any other frames. 

Yes, every frames has ability cost, so does Trinity. So Trinity is not immortal, nor can she alone reaching that high without her teammates. 

[Guest Shibboleet]

When you mentioned it, assuming it should be included in argument as well 

Proof of late game is not the point here. So basically, if currently the highest survival is 3hr, then it considered late game, then later on, there are people who made it to 4 hr and so on etc, so which one is late game?

When I said energy drain, I mean to compared trinity during blessing, and loki during invisibility. I had never once mentioned nor compared it to any other frames. 

Yes, every frames has ability cost, so does Trinity. So Trinity is not immortal, nor can she alone reaching that high without her teammates. 

You didn't even read my thread of achievements, did you? 7 hours is the record, but I attribute anything over 3 hours to be late game to be fair. Your comparison with invisibility to invulnerability was presented awkwardly and I attempted to salvage it awkwardly. I'll try better next time.

 

Leaving energy drain out of this discussion, where is her weakness that we haven't discussed?

[-CM-Syein]

You didn't even read my thread of achievements, did you? 7 hours is the record, but I attribute anything over 3 hours to be late game to be fair. Your comparison with invisibility to invulnerability was presented awkwardly and I attempted to salvage it awkwardly. I'll try better next time.

 

Leaving energy drain out of this discussion, where is her weakness that we haven't discussed?

I'm making example of hour and what it mean by late game by some people. I could make an example of a number such as 4 as highest and then another do 8 as their highest, so which one is considered to be late-tier. 

as for my comparison, well that was awkward, at least not for me. 

 

Her weakness? Simple, without her teammate, killing mobs 1 by 1 doesn't cut it. She can get surrounded, they can see her, she can't totally wipe them out, she can get knock back and forth, in the middle of those enemies, she won't die, yes, but what if her blessing ran out in the middle? And she get stuck? 

People said casting time is not important, it's easy, just hide somewhere and cast it. easy for them to say. 

[IamSalva]

I main a Trinity, try playing something more difficult than Venus.

 

You should better inform yourselfe, my Clan is rigth up there with 100 Wave Defense and 2h+ Survivals...

And you don´t even seem to know that Link protects from Knockdown... or at least i don´t get how you constantly say "knockdown is Trins weakness" when she is one of the few frames with natural knockdown protection... its like saying Rhino Stomp can´t be OP cause Rhino can´t do it when knocked down, ignoring the fact that Iroon Skin prefents knockdown. (only that Iron Skin  stop doing this late game, while Link never stops doing it and even reflecting it..)

[BloodArmoredApostle]

The heal is nice, but the Invincibility to every team mate for over 20 seconds if modded properly is...

 

Whats the word, overpowered?  Yeah.

 

I'm not saying kill the effect but in its current state needs a new form of existence because currently it's just way to overpowered.

if balance is important to you...then you still fail to acknowledge the failed damage 2.0 armor scaling and enemies totally overpowering you at a certain point. Grineer Heavies have the best armor and health than any faction and damage resistance...which is broken. If your worried about balance look at all the factors besides one warframe. Trinity is the least of your concerns atm. The other issues is running out of energy with trinity. So, even if it lasts 23 seconds properly built (considering you have the corrupted mod) you still have to either kill enemies quickly to regain energy. Or energy vampire, but really how well does this work?

 

Sorry, but balance is something I think some throw around a lot in threads and posts. If you truly want a balanced game (Planetside 2) is your answer. Otherwise, Let the game be unique. You state the ridiculousness of one factor of the warframe, which sounds more like a whining thread more than a calculated opinion.

 

Note: This thread -1, and please nerf this thread.

[Ryjeon]

I've changed my mind about Trinity. I don't think she's overpowered for the current content. She meets certain very important niches. Her design cohesion seems a little dissatisfying for me personally. Mainly I feel Well of Life's stun may as well be part of Energy Vampire. And using Blessing and Link together feels expensive and redundant at times. Maybe she will come closer to what I'm looking for playstyle-wise with possible future alterations or variations that may become available.

 

But in the meantime she's fine. As others have said, she's just another option.

Edited January 12, 2014 by Ryjeon

[Guest Shibboleet]

if balance is important to you...then you still fail to acknowledge the failed damage 2.0 armor scaling and enemies totally overpowering you at a certain point. Grineer Heavies have the best armor and health than any faction and damage resistance...which is broken. If your worried about balance look at all the factors besides one warframe. Trinity is the least of your concerns atm. The other issues is running out of energy with trinity. So, even if it lasts 23 seconds properly built (considering you have the corrupted mod) you still have to either kill enemies quickly to regain energy. Or energy vampire, but really how well does this work?

 

Sorry, but balance is something I think some throw around a lot in threads and posts. If you truly want a balanced game (Planetside 2) is your answer. Otherwise, Let the game be unique. You state the ridiculousness of one factor of the warframe, which sounds more like a whining thread more than a calculated opinion.

 

Note: This thread -1, and please nerf this thread.

Armor scaling being 'broken' is a point of view, not fact. And of course Grineer heavies would have the highest armor than any other faction because they are the only faction with armor (I'm including tower Grineer).

 

Speaking strictly late tier game, running out of energy and failing is not something to be considered. Playing with the team that I have we don't fail and have seen how blessing is incredibly powerful. I can at least salute you for being one of the few posters not mentioning ancient disruptors though.

[Preanette]

The direct opposite of Trinity is Mag. 

 

While Trinity casts blessing and worries only about the cast time,

 

Mag casts pull and enemies are now all surrounding her, get out of there immediately!! Even Ember's accelerant is more controllable with a damage multiplier.

 

Mag uses shield polarize, enemies are still shooting and draining your shields. Quickly copter and get out of there! Pull a few times while you are at it! Even if the enemies have their shields, you don't reliably down all the enemies and the heavy gunners laugh at you for failing. Pull and run!

 

Mag uses Bullet attractor. Big bubble blocks the enemies in front of you. Now worry about enemies behind and the chaos that will ensue when the bubble bursts. The 2X multiplier on a single target is laughable (or at least nova and banshee laugh)

 

Mag uses Crush...teammates will scold you for wasting your energy on that. Get out of there now.

 

When 2 frames are played with so much different effort, you needn't be amazed why some frames are so popular compared to others. So much for loki highly skilled invisible masterrace.

Edited January 12, 2014 by Preanette

[Guest Shibboleet]

The direct opposite of Trinity is Mag. 

 

While Trinity casts blessing and worries only about the cast time,

 

Mag casts pull and enemies are now all surrounding her, get out of there immediately!! Even Ember's accelerant is more controllable with a damage multiplier.

 

Mag uses shield polarize, enemies are still shooting and draining your shields. Quickly copter and get out of there! Pull a few times while you are at it! Even if the enemies have their shields, you don't reliably down all the enemies and the heavy gunners laugh at you for failing. Pull and run!

 

Mag uses Bullet attractor. Big bubble blocks the enemies in front of you. Now worry about enemies behind and the chaos that will ensue when the bubble bursts. The 2X multiplier on a single target is laughable (or at least nova and banshee laugh)

 

Mag uses Crush...teammates will scold you for wasting your energy on that. Get out of there now.

 

When 2 frames are played with so much different effort, you needn't be amazed why some frames are so popular compared to others. So much for loki highly skilled invisible masterrace.

Mag isn't a grineer or infestation frame for late tier gaming. Blessing trinity can be used on all 3 with no downside.

 

 

I don't even see what you're pointing at.