De Please Change Ogris Ammo Type Already. Srsly

[SquirmyBurrito]

So... just... run away?

 

Players are never short on mobility.  It's not like enemies have snares or CC of any sort, unfortunately.

 

It's really not a significant drawback.

 

I guess you aren't counting bosses? I do wish we had some more CC enemies (not like Rollers or those other ones that used to disable you).

[SIDESTRE4M]

So... just... run away?

 

Players are never short on mobility.  It's not like enemies have snares or CC of any sort, unfortunately.

 

It's really not a significant drawback.

 

Why don't you just quote my example too?

 

Sure, this is situational, but the problem is when you are in a pinch, like something went wrong on T3 defense and you are tied to the pod and you have those nasty moas lasering you. Where do you want to run to? Away from the pod to the swarm already waiting there or die there at the hand of your own grenade?

 

There are lots of situations, this one ist just a prime example. It's just not reliable to use everywhere and if you already understood this, you might have realised, that working arround it certainly isn't the same flexibility a normal rifle provides...

 

It's not like a Penta user is able to use the 500 extra grenades... so just cutting them won't change a thing to gameplay since this was never intended to be the limiting factor using Penta.

 

Of course the sheer amount of rockets is ridiculous, but it's just there not hurting anyone at all, so we the last thing we need is making a big fuss about it.

Edited January 9, 2014 by SIDESTRE4M

[Makya]

 

How does that even work? Can you give me some examples of weapons that focus on damage output yet are inefficient as far as ammo goes? We're talking damage per shot, right?

Weapons that focus on DPSecond over DPShot:
Ignis, Flux Rifle, Braton, Dera, Boltor, Gorgon, Karak, Grakata, etc.. Most high fire rate weapons have moderate to low Damage per shot.

 

Very few focus on Efficiency(Slower rate of fire, hard hitting round), Only the Latron/Prime really focuses on this from the Rifle class, I could of sworn there were more Semi-Auto rifles, heck, even the burston prime's change over the burston was mostly RoF(+100%), not Damage per shot(+33%).

[SquirmyBurrito]

 

 

 

Weapons that focus on DPSecond over DPShot:

Ignis, Flux Rifle, Braton, Dera, Boltor, Gorgon, Karak, Grakata, etc.. Most high fire rate weapons have moderate to low Damage per shot.

 

Very few focus on Efficiency(Slower rate of fire, hard hitting round), Only the Latron/Prime really focuses on this from the Rifle class, I could of sworn there were more Semi-Auto rifles, heck, even the burston prime's change over the burston was mostly RoF(+100%), not Damage per shot(+33%).

 

 

I don't have the Flux or the Boltor, but I've never had ammo issues with the other weapons you suggested. Didn't use the Latron very much, still need to rebuild it and level it to thirty.

[fatpig84]

yes because supra/soma/synapse/ignis with the trigger always held would make the game harder and all other weapons much more viable. its not even a matter of collecting ammo, its a matter of using ammo wisely and learning to take advantage of the bullets you have, its an amazingly simple concept that 99% percent of shooters have.

 

seriously, its a no brainer these guns need to switch ammo types for a number of reasons

 

-every other gun needs to actually think about ammo

-rifle ammo pool is too large for these guns (540 rockets?)

-rifle ammo is too common and restores to many units of ammo per pickup (this also applies to ammo restores)

 

maybe its just me but i cant even think of ONE solid game where "infinite rocket launcher" is something thats not a cheat code and enabled by default, nor can i even think ONE example where rockets by default have the same ammo capacity of as a machine gun.

 

I hardly ran out of Doom 3 rockets or the rocket launcher after getting the backpack in classic doom in a single mission :p

Yes 100 rockets.

[BlueIstari]

To quote a post I've made on this subject before, Ogris/Torid/Penta should draw from the sniper ammo pool for the same reason that the Vulkar/Snipetron/Snipetron Vandal/Vectis/Lanka/Miter/Bows do.

 

Weapons in the sniper pool are characterized by their very high per-shot damage compared to other firearms, thus their limited ammo. The three launchers boast huge amounts of damage as well, but are capable of striking entire groups per round. Giving them sniper ammo is generous. If there were a specialist ammo pool that had even less ammo capacity, I'd say they belonged there instead, but alas there is none.

 

"I won't run out of ammo anyway" isn't an acceptable reason to reject the idea. If that is truly how you feel, then prove it by supporting a change that allegedly won't affect you, or support giving all weapons rifle (or unlimited) ammo since apparently ammo capacity shouldn't be a concern during gameplay nor a consideration where balance is concerned.

[SIDESTRE4M]

The point is:

 

There are weapons which have an ammo efficient nature and those who don't.

So you either think it's unfair as whole so we need a whole overhaul...

 

OR...

 

you deal with it and accept that the launchers belong to this category which is not affected by ammo pools, except you create a new one, which will be the bane of every weapon assigned to it.

 

This has nothing to do with right directions leading or immersive expierience or whatsoever. People here want, that other people shoot less. That's it.

That won't be achieved with just a simple switch to sniper ammo for Penta/Orgris. Just telling you.

 

I'm not strictly against changing it, but I'm against it because people have this strange mindsetting and claim it would change soo much when in fact, it doesn't really.

 

So people will have to be either content with their goals not really reached or will still go on with the nerfing hysteria which I do not want.

 

For me, it's as simple as that.

[Temp0ralfool]

read first post: HELL NO, THEY ALREADY MADE THIS MISTAKE WITH THE DRAKGOON!!

[Makya]

read first post: HELL NO, THEY ALREADY MADE THIS MISTAKE WITH THE DRAKGOON!!

Mistake? Yes, it is a mistake for a shotgun to use shotgun ammo... Because magnets?

[SIDESTRE4M]

Haha, I think they did the right thing with the drakgoon. It is basically a shotgun no matter what the pellets are made of.

[Toztman]

Justify this, justify that...it simply breaks immersion when you have an army of rockets in your pocket.  IT IS STUPID.

 

DE needs per weapon ammo maximums.  I argued this a long time ago.  Weapons no longer can be given a basic ammo pool.  Closed beta and early open beta this made sense, but specialty weapons designs warrant the need for each gun to get its own max count.  This lesson of weapon balance was learned many years ago.  The more damage a bullet does, the fewer you get. It is synonymous with common sense.

 

Ogris would get 20 or 30 shots.

Allow LMGs to carry more ammo to fill their support roles.

Machine pistols should get more ammo, but magnum pistols get less.

 

With this change, each gun would get X ammo from its respective drop.  Rifle ammo would give Ogris 1 rocket, etc.

 

What we are seeing here is this: DE has far larger fish to fry than the ammo system, but rest assured it is aged and designed for a MUCH SMALLER GAME.  I imagine they will revisit ammo management once they are ready.

Edited January 11, 2014 by Toztman

[SIDESTRE4M]

I think if you believe anyone will take profit out of this, you might e mistaken. Everyone will probably end up having less ammo at all, not more which will mostly hurt high level content as always.

 

It all depends on the coefficient for the damage per bullet ratio. So either all the machine guns get more, or all other guns get less. Maybe a mix out of it would be fine...

 

if they could overcome the engine limitations...

[Brimir]

Haha, I think they did the right thing with the drakgoon. It is basically a shotgun no matter what the pellets are made of.

 

 

This we can agree on (for once).

 

The change didn't affect the gun much, though, it is still far more ammo efficient than any other shotgun in the game but at least it isn't redonkulous anymore.

Edited January 11, 2014 by Brimir

[Toztman]

If other games have proper systems, then there are no excuses, only work to be done.  Never said easy work.

 

It may be a long while before it gets touched though.  Warframe 2, as Steve had mentioned in Livestream 20.

[Makya]

If other games have proper systems, then there are no excuses, only work to be done.  Never said easy work.

 

It may be a long while before it gets touched though.  Warframe 2, as Steve had mentioned in Livestream 20.

Some ideas are set as warframe 3, for 2015 remember?

[LazyKnight]

It hasn't adversely effected the Drak'goon in any meaningful way by having it use shotgun ammo. Ogris, Torid, Penta: They all have such slow firing mechanics coupled with the potential aoe kills and it would not be a dramatic difference if their usability or fun factor to have 72 or 120 rounds, I doubt most people would run out of ammo anyway.

[NikolaiLev]

There's nothing that technically limits weapons from having individual ammo counts.  The Grakata has a maximum ammo pool of 650.

 

It wouldn't be hard to make the Ogris use sniper ammo and give it a max of 40 or so.  It wouldn't be hard to change its ammo-per-pickup to 5 or less.

 

And doing so would make the weapon far more balanced.

[nephalem87]

God these nerf the penta/ogris threads are infuriating. You guys want to ruin everyone else's fun. just get over it.

[Toztman]

God these nerf the penta/ogris threads are infuriating. You A******s want to ruin everyone else's fun. just STFU and get over it. 

 

Excellent discussion....

 

I don't target any one gun.  I realize the system as a whole needs some rework though.  Im also not the OP, but just in case you read my post.  Universal ammo can work.  Mass Effect does it well.  But Warframe currently does not do it as well as it should.

[nephalem87]

Excellent discussion....

 

I don't target any one gun.  I realize the system as a whole needs some rework though.  Im also not the OP, but just in case you read my post.  Universal ammo can work.  Mass Effect does it well.  But Warframe currently does not do it as well as it should.

I have seen it in these forums and it's not just Penta but everytime a player finds extended use in a warframe ability or Weapon, the nerf threads come flooding and I'm wondering what in the heck these people are thinking...are they jealous??? some are obviously OP, but a lot  of it sounds like "______ stole my kill/xp or did better than what I have so DE please nerf it!" 

[SIDESTRE4M]

Basically one bunch of people want another bunch of people to shoot less.

 

That's not gonna happen. At least not with just switching to sniper ammo...

[birdei]

72 rounds on the torrid would cripple it even more.

[Makya]

72 rounds on the torrid would cripple it even more.

The torrid is bad even with the current ammo type, it needs a clear buff

[Makya]

Basically one bunch of people want another bunch of people to shoot less.

 

That's not gonna happen. At least not with just switching to sniper ammo...

I don't want them to shoot less, just it feel odd that they have that high of a cap. Even with them changing to sniper, I doubt when I use the Ogris/Penta I would drop to half capacity even during T3 defense.

[Temp0ralfool]

Mistake? Yes, it is a mistake for a shotgun to use shotgun ammo... Because magnets?

IT IS A FLAK CANNON!