De Please Change Ogris Ammo Type Already. Srsly

[LazyKnight]

The sniper rifles are inherently bad weapons in Warframe.

-Snipe-

It was damage potential of a single pull of the sniper rifle's trigger, not the DPS or questionable usefulness. The explosive weapons dwarf everything other than a select few sniper weapons. My argument in regards to the damage potential of Penta/Ogris is that it is in-line with the risk of self-suicide, but it's ammo reserves are not in-line considering the value of the individual rounds relative to their inexhaustible availability.

 

Most games I have played have given explosive weaponry high value rounds with tiny ammo reserves. This ammo constraint serves as a limitation for having exceedingly good overall power and relative usefulness.  The problem is that Ogris/penta do not even need* to pick-up a single ammo pick-up for anything other than extended endless defense or survival. Other than the ammo, I do not have complaints about the Ogris or Penta, they satisfy a niche.

 

 

An easy rebuttal to my complaint: Weapons such as a Brakk do not necessarily need ammo pick-up either for most gameplay purpose. The Penta/Ogris situation just takes it to the extreme end of the spectrum of having too much ammo and no definable reason to have that much. Sniper weapons on the other end of the spectrum: Suffer from never having enough ammo, while having near the same damage range to a single target as the Ogris/Penta. 

 

Why should rockets launchers not suffer the hassle that snipers weapon require?

 

Is the ability to blow yourself up worth never having to consider ammo ever?

 

What is the purpose of sniper ammo at all, why not just have all rifles and bows use rifle ammo?

Edited January 14, 2014 by LazyKnight

[Pure]

It was damage potential of a single pull of the sniper rifle's trigger, not the DPS or questionable usefulness. The explosive weapons dwarf everything other than a select few sniper weapons. My argument in regards to the damage potential of Penta/Ogris is that it is in-line with the risk of self-suicide, but it's ammo reserves are not in-line considering the value of the individual rounds relative to their inexhaustible availability.

 

Most games I have played have given explosive weaponry high value rounds with tiny ammo reserves. This ammo constraint serves as a limitation for having exceedingly good overall power and relative usefulness.  The problem is that Ogris/penta do not even need* to pick-up a single ammo pick-up for anything other than extended endless defense or survival. Other than the ammo, I do not have complaints about the Ogris or Penta, they satisfy a niche.

 

 

An easy rebuttal to my complaint: Weapons such as a Brakk do not necessarily need ammo pick-up either for most gameplay purpose. The Penta/Ogris situation just takes it to the extreme end of the spectrum of having too much ammo and no definable reason to have that much. Sniper weapons on the other end of the spectrum: Suffer from never having enough ammo, while having near the same damage range to a single target as the Ogris/Penta. 

 

Why should rockets launchers not suffer the hassle that snipers weapon require?

 

Is the ability to blow yourself up worth never having to consider ammo ever?

 

What is the purpose of sniper ammo at all, why not just have all rifles and bows use rifle ammo?

so you complain about all the ammo launchers have, but then say why don't sniper weapons have the same?

are u wanting launchers nerfed or are you being selfish and want the sniper weapon you use buffed?

[LazyKnight]

so you complain about all the ammo launchers have, but then say why don't sniper weapons have the same?

are u wanting launchers nerfed or are you being selfish and want the sniper weapon you use buffed?

I do not want sniper weapon's ammo supply buffed, it was just used for comparison purposes. The point was, "What makes rocket launcher special?", nothing else was meant to be implied.

 

I could have used shotguns ammo scarcity for a comparison against rocket as well. Rocket's rifle ammo are more common than shotgun shells and sniper ammo combined, leading to more questions on why they draw from the rifle pick-ups in the first place.

Edited January 14, 2014 by LazyKnight

[Cwierz]

Wanting it for aesthetics is a silly reason.  There are actual, valid reasons to make this change.

Realized, and accounted for. I am just saying the primary reason I want it fixed is because I hate seeing the 540 number in the bottom right. It makes no god damn sense.

[NikolaiLev]

so you complain about all the ammo launchers have, but then say why don't sniper weapons have the same?

are u wanting launchers nerfed or are you being selfish and want the sniper weapon you use buffed?

 

His point was the fact that even if sniper rifles had rifle ammo, they'd still be mediocre choices.  Yet even if the Ogris just had sniper ammo, it'd still be one of the best weapons in the game, because it has AoE.

 

That's why it would make sense for the Ogris to get a modest 20 or 30 rounds maximum, receiving 5 or even 2 ammo per sniper pickup.

[SIDESTRE4M]

Try Vectis and lanka as the only competition with ogris/penta, other than weapons such as stug.

 

Evil infinite ammo can be inferred as: "inexhaustible ammo regardless of way in which it is used in".

 

You're being deliberately obtuse with your last paragraph. Even when ammo mutation mods are used twin vipers they will quickly outstrip the availability of ammo when used as a primary weapon.

Ok, first thing is: Lanka and Vectis do have other purposes than Ogris. And I'd rather bring them to a normal mission than a launcher because I'd have to be too careful in narrow spaces and such.

I just brought this example up because infinite ammo comes from a slow fire rate. You use one rocket, kill maybe three enemies, charge the next rocket.

So my brainstorming example was like: If vipers had such a slow fire rate it would essentially be the same. Of course that would suck like hell.

By the way, when I'm using Drakgoon, it's like having infinite ammo too... Despite the change. Unfair?

Get over it. Just because Ogris is rdiculously good at defense doesn't mean it is everywhere.

It might as well be still decent everywhere else when used with caution but why can't you allow it to be?

[NikolaiLev]

Ok, first thing is: Lanka and Vectis do have other purposes than Ogris. And I'd rather bring them to a normal mission than a launcher because I'd have to be too careful in narrow spaces and such.

I just brought this example up because infinite ammo comes from a slow fire rate. You use one rocket, kill maybe three enemies, charge the next rocket.

So my brainstorming example was like: If vipers had such a slow fire rate it would essentially be the same. Of course that would suck like hell.

By the way, when I'm using Drakgoon, it's like having infinite ammo too... Despite the change. Unfair?

Get over it. Just because Ogris is rdiculously good at defense doesn't mean it is everywhere.

It might as well be still decent everywhere else when used with caution but why can't you allow it to be?

 

The Drakgoon still needs an ammo nerf.  It should use sniper ammo.

 

And the Ogris is good everywhere.  Because swarms of enemies are everywhere.

 

We don't want it to be because it outmodes all other weapons.  And it's just so easy to stay out of its range.  Even if you mess up, your teammates can always just pick you up.  AoE is too powerful in Warframe because of its swarm-based enemies.  Hence why the AoE weapons should require more ammo management than they do now.

[Brimir]

 

 

And the Ogris is good everywhere.  Because swarms of enemies are everywhere.

 

Plus, it is not like it's damage gets reduced when used against a single target.

[LazyKnight]

The Drakgoon still needs an ammo nerf.  It should use sniper ammo.

I have been using my 5 forma Drakgoon for awhile now and I am not sure I would use it over Strun wraith.

 

It's non-charge DPS is comparable to Strun wraiths(not to mention boar prime that should have higher dps) but, it's spread is much, much, more aggressive. It's charge based damage is high, but requires charging between each and every shot and still does less damage per hit than a Vectis.

 

Put a Vicious spread on Drakgoon and it's accuracy is less than 1 forcing it to be used as charge damage weapon only. It's the most inaccurate shotgun in game when used on non-charged attacks with Vicious.

 

I would rather use Vectis over using a Drakgoon for sniping heavy units. The reason I say this is because it is comparing a hit scan weapon to a travel time weapon with spread. I am not saying the drakgoon is weak or underpowered, it just plays like a lanka with slower bullets that have a greater chance for damage lost because of bullet drift.

 

Drakgoon is overall just a versatile, jack-of-trades weapon, but other weapons are better than it in each of it's functions. 

Edited January 14, 2014 by LazyKnight

[Kato-san]

Why is this a problem? If they change it to the point where I have to put a ammo mutation on Orgis instead of Firestorm I never will use it, And I sure many will not. Unless they buff the damage...

Edited January 14, 2014 by MindlessWar

[LazyKnight]

Why is this a problem? If they change it to the point where I have to put a ammo mutation on Orgis instead of Firestorm I never will use it, And I sure many will not. Unless they buff the damage...

I just hope DE doesn't read this topic and proceeds to give Penta/Ogris 20-40 rounds as an experiment. It would be nice if they spent just a little while to just review it and determined if it is really necessary for it to get rifle's ammos 20 rounds per pick-up along with 540+ 5-8 shots the weapons have to start the mission.

 

The amount of player inflicted self-damage could likely be looked at the same time ammo is. That would increase the usability of the weapon with high level mods as a fair compensation for having ammo constraints. It really isn't necessary for either penta or ogris to do more than 500 damage to the player using it, warframes do not have that much health or armor and these weapons scale to absurd amounts of self damage.

[NikolaiLev]

I just hope DE doesn't read this topic and proceeds to give Penta/Ogris 20-40 rounds as an experiment. It would be nice if they spent just a little while to just review it and determined if it is really necessary for it to get rifle's ammos 20 rounds per pick-up along with 540+ 5-8 shots the weapons have to start the mission.

 

The amount of player inflicted self-damage could likely be looked at the same time ammo is. That would increase the usability of the weapon with high level mods as a fair compensation for having ammo constraints. It really isn't necessary for either penta or ogris to do more than 500 damage to the player using it, warframes do not have that much health or armor and these weapons scale to absurd amounts of self damage.

 

I would be fine with the player taking 50% self-damage in exchange for ammo management.

[SIDESTRE4M]

The Drakgoon still needs an ammo nerf.  It should use sniper ammo.

 

And the Ogris is good everywhere.  Because swarms of enemies are everywhere.

 

We don't want it to be because it outmodes all other weapons.  And it's just so easy to stay out of its range.  Even if you mess up, your teammates can always just pick you up.  AoE is too powerful in Warframe because of its swarm-based enemies.  Hence why the AoE weapons should require more ammo management than they do now.

 

Do you guys want to nerf every weapon which ammo efficient? Drakgoon,... you can't be serious.

 

Ogris doesn't outmode all other weapons. It does in certain situations, but not in all. How does Ogris outmode other weapons if enemies are or get close?

 

The hate for this weapon is unbelievable. As long as no one touches my Synapse, do what you want. I wonder, why nobody wants to nerf 100% critchance. I guess, it's next on the list.

Edited January 14, 2014 by SIDESTRE4M

[LazyKnight]

Do you guys want to nerf every weapon which ammo efficient? Drakgoon,... you can't be serious.

 

I do not "hate", Ogris or Penta. I also am not gunning to have Drakgoon changed. I do not have any other weapons on a list of things that bother me, other than Wraith Vipers ammo starvation and why do you need 540 rockets.

Edited January 14, 2014 by LazyKnight

[NikolaiLev]

Do you guys want to nerf every weapon which ammo efficient? Drakgoon,... you can't be serious.

 

Ogris doesn't outmode all other weapons. It does in certain situations, but not in all. How does Ogris outmode other weapons if enemies are or get close?

 

The hate for this weapon is unbelievable. As long as no one touches my Synapse, do what you want. I wonder, why nobody wants to nerf 100% critchance. I guess, it's next on the list.

 

There's no hate for the weapon.  We just want it to be reasonable.

 

The Synapse is one of the more powerful weapons, near Soma.  But afaik it's not as overpowered as the Soma.

 

And if enemies get close... you can just walk away.  All Warframes have excellent mobility.  So that argument is moot.

[SIDESTRE4M]

BUT IT HAS 100% CRIT!!! Others have less mod capacity with less effect... It's not fair.

 

No, just kidding.

 

We have two factions and wie won't come to a consens.

 

It's as simple as that, because you don't think my arguments are good enough and neither do I think yours are. We are weighting different aspects of the game differently and that's it.

 

Ogris limits my movement, because I have to use my movement for it's use, instead of just shooting. So for me, it's a disadvantage you just don't approve of, therefore claiming, it has no disatvantages. It's not 100% as flexible as other weapons in my point of view.

 

If that "justifies" infinite ammo... what do I care, because I can't take advantage of 500 extra rockets anyway, but let's nerf it, yay.

 

It will be nerfed, maybe it will impact gameplay, maybe not, depending on the nerf. People will still want to nerf, or want to buff, or will be happy.

 

I don't think, this will get anywhere, so I will change my stance to Sniper ammo, since it will please someone without probably hurting another one, but some people can at least put the torches and forks away.

Edited January 15, 2014 by SIDESTRE4M

[Brimir]

 

If that "justifies" infinite ammo... what do I care, because I can't take advantage of 500 extra rockets anyway, but let's nerf it, yay.

 

/facepalm

 

It is not about ammo capacity!

[NuLycan]

I seriously don't understand why people think infinite ammo isn't a problem.

[Justin_Case001]

people complain about the stupidest things

I agree.  I'm gettin real tired of the "nerf everything that's fun to use in this game" threads.  I know balance is important, but I will never understand why people compain about things that are good and fun to use.  When something is powerful, I don't compain about it, I get one.  And I like it.  None of these things that people complain about are game breaking.

Edited January 15, 2014 by Justin_Case001

[Brimir]

If you can't stand the game without "infinite ammo cheat-mode activate!" then you probably shouldn't play it.

[Makya]

None of these things that people complain about are game breaking.

To you they are not. To others it is a unfair or unbalanced mechanic that should be fixed before it is used as reference material for something else.

[NikolaiLev]

/facepalm

 

It is not about ammo capacity!

 

Uh?  Yes it is.  The Ogris ammo type change is intended to enforce ammo management.  Merely changing it to sniper ammo may not be enough.

 

I agree.  I'm gettin real tired of the "nerf everything that's fun to use in this game" threads.  I know balance is important, but I will never understand why people compain about things that are good and fun to use.  When something is powerful, I don't compain about it, I get one.  And I like it.  None of these things that people complain about are game breaking.

 

"Fun to use" is subjective.  The reason people want weapons to be balanced is because they want to have choice when it comes to endgame content.  They'd like to be able to use whatever they want, instead of being forced to pick the most powerful weapons like the Ogris or the Galatine.

[SIDESTRE4M]

/facepalm

It is not about ammo capacity!

Why do you alway respond to just one or two lines, what people say? That was the most unimportant thing in my posting you responded to.

Would you actually READ what I write you would've known that I freaking know that ammo drops is an important role too. But it's not like I can take advantage of ot either, so yeah: Take it away and look out for the next nerf thread because Ogris will still be what it is:

A rocket launcher with superb trashcleaning capabilities.

Edited January 15, 2014 by SIDESTRE4M

[LazyKnight]

To you they are not. To others it is a unfair or unbalanced mechanic that should be fixed before it is used as reference material for something else.

I had stopped caring about Ogris, until they then made Penta have the same ammo system as Ogris. It seems like Ogris has set a precedent for explosive weapons.  I was highly surprised they came out and said they knew better than to give Drakgoon rifle ammo and forgot Penta.

 

 

Why do you alway respond to just one or two lines, what people say? That was the most unimportant thing in my posting you responded to.

Would you actually READ what I write you would've known that I freaking know that ammo drops is an important role too. But it's not like I can take advantage of ot either, so yeah: Take it away and look out for the next nerf thread because Ogris will still be what it is:

A rocket launcher with superb trashcleaning capabilities.

The ammo change to sniper or shotgun ammo is far more relevant in regards to Penta and to a much lesser degree to Ogris(nearly irrelevant). Penta can fire rather quickly, unlike Ogris, and it can actual use a chunk of it's deep ammo reserves. Blowing yourself up isn't really a limiting factor when you can control when the detonation occurs.

[Brimir]

Uh?  Yes it is.  The Ogris ammo type change is intended to enforce ammo management.  Merely changing it to sniper ammo may not be enough.

 

 

No it is not. You never fall below 500 (or even 520) Rockets with the Ogris because the problem isn't ammo capacity; but the fact that you get 20 Rockets per ammo pickup. That is a much more pressing issue.