Oberon Shunned

[aa3123]

Having to recast the same ability every five seconds is practical how?

 

How is it on level with Vortex? It sacrfices duration for reach, meaning you have to spam it for the same effect. 

 

Stunlocking is nice, but it doesn't help you kill that massively overpowered enemy any faster. At least with Chaos that enemy is likely to already be injured to some extent. But yes, on single targets a stunlock is more useful than a crowd control.

 

Chaos is far from second rate. Chaos generates damage that scales, this makes enemies easier to kill (since they're attacking each other). Radial Blind does not do this. 

 

Radial Blind > Chaos in single target situations. Chaos > Radial Blind for Crowd Control.

 

Not sure what Rhino stomp has to do with this.

 

Ok, let me make it easy for you:

 

Chaos:

Pros:

1. Added damage from mobs

2. Can be modded to 64 sec which is energy efficient (duration to energy spent), but leads to con#2.  Requires three mod slots, reduces range and no max energy efficiency.

3. 2 sec stun that work on bosses

 

Cons: 

1. Hit closest target, tennos and cryo pod included.

2. Cannot be recast.  Timings matter more.  Cast it when every mob are in range leave you open to damage until you do.  Cast it early and affect a few targets means the rest aren't affected.  Chaos target do draw aggro from ones that are not affected, but it will matter in situation where enemies come in from different sides and you have chaos target on 1 side.

3. Cannot be used to resurrect allies in the middle of enemies without risks.

4. Duration mods is not necessary a benefit.

5. Useless on single mob.  Mind control can be used, but that's 2 mod slots.

6. Can stun bosses but will have no other effects on them.

7. Enemies killed by allies while under effects of chaos yield no affinity.

8. Stun is only 2 sec.

 

 

Radial Blind:

Pros:

1.  Recastable.  Spam it on one target if you fancy, run into the next room and do it again.  Field of effects is wildly increased simpliar to multiple bastille.  Superior when it comes to rushing.  Note: has a 5 sec reuse delay.  There is a limitation if you can run 58.75 meters in 5 seconds.  Also means you can't waste energy to stunlock.  Gap between stunlocks is covered by blind.

2.  Can benefit from duration mods.  If you choose not to use it, it's fine as well.  Max of 25.7 sec with the same downside of chaos: requires three mod slots, reduces range and no max energy efficiency.

3.  Stun portion is total disable.

4.  If you want to be lazy, you have the option to rely on blind portion til you hear gunfire somewhere.

5.  Usable on bosses, both stun and blind portions.

6.  Usable on single enemy and mulitple.

7.  Affinity friendly.  No damage to kill enemies.  Can level melee weapons as well.

8.  Can resurrect allies in the middle of enemies with almost no risks.

9.  Works on security cameras.

 

Cons:

1. Blinded enemies will try to attack.  Melee enemies run to location of gunshots to melee.  Ranged enemies will throw grenades and shoot at locations of gunshots.

2. No damage.

3. Stun duration is only 5 sec.  Require spamming more if you want total stunlock.

 

 

Comparison:

1.  Long duration restrict you in chaos.  As suggested by MortalSin, use max fleeting expertise  -60% without duration mods.  23 sec x .4 = 9.2 sec.  + 2 sec initial stun = 11.2 sec. 

2.  -60% duration on blind.  10 sec x .4 = 4 sec.  4 sec + 5 sec stun = 9 sec.

3.  11.2 sec vs 9 sec.  So blind and chaos will both be subject to spamming your abilities.  Rhino stomp is 8 seconds total disable and still consider a good cc ability.  If you choose to use duration mods on chaos instead, the same can be done for blind, but chaos will be subject to con #2. 

4.  75 energy vs 50 energy.  Suddenly blind is more spammable.

5.  Blinded enemies can attack you, but so can Chaos.  In blind case, enemies are still almost completely incapacitated.  In chaos case, run away till one left that chases you.

6.  Chaos kill faster.  Useful if your weapons suck. 

7.  Both ignore line of sight.  Total OP.

8.  Both are still awesome cake.

 

 

If I missed anything, please mention it and I will adjust accordingly. 

 

Edited: included things that squirmy pointed out.

Edited January 21, 2014 by aa3123

[SquirmyBurrito]

Ok, let me make it easy for you:

Chaos:

Pros:

1. Added damage from mobs

2. Ice cream.

Cons:

1. Hit closest target, tennos and cryo pod included.

2. Cannot be recast. Timings matter more. Cast it when every mob are in range leave you open to damage until you do. Cast it early and affect a few targets means the rest aren't affected. Chaos target do draw aggro from ones that are not affected, but it will matter in situation where enemies come in from different sides and you have chaos target on 1 side.

3. Cannot be used to resurrect allies in the middle of enemies without risks.

4. Duration mods is not necessary a benefit.

5. Useless on single mob. Mind control can be used, but that's 2 mod slots.

6. Can stun bosses but will have no other effects on them.

7. Enemies killed by allies while under effects of chaos yield no affinity.

Radial Blind:

Pros:

1. Recastable. Spam it on one target if you fancy, run into the next room and do it again. Field of effects is wildly increased simpliar to multiple bastille. Superior when it comes to rushing. Note: has a 5 sec reuse delay. There is a limitation if you can run 58.75 meters in 5 seconds. Also means you can't waste energy to stunlock. Gap between stunlocks is covered by blind.

2. Can benefit from duration mods. If you choose not to use it, it's fine as well.

3. Stun portion is total disable.

4. If you want to be lazy, you have the option to rely on blind portion til you hear gunfire somewhere.

5. Usable on bosses, both stun and blind portions.

6. Usable on single enemy and mulitple.

7. Affinity friendly. No damage to kill enemies. Can level melee weapons as well.

8. Can resurrect allies in the middle of enemies with almost no risks.

Cons:

1. Blinded enemies will try to attack. Melee enemies run to location of gunshots to melee. Ranged enemies will throw grenades but will not use their primary weapon.

2. No damage.

3. Stun duration is only 5 sec. Require spamming more if you want total stunlock.

Comparison:

1. Long duration restrict you in chaos. As suggested by MortalSin, use max fleeting expertise -60% without duration mods. 23 sec x .4 = 9.2 sec. + 2 sec initial stun = 11.2 sec.

2. -60% duration on blind. 10 sec x .4 = 4 sec. 4 sec + 5 sec stun = 9 sec.

3. 11.2 sec vs 9 sec. So blind and chaos will both be subject to spamming your abilities. Rhino stomp is 8 seconds total disable and still consider a good cc ability. If you choose to use duration mods on chaos instead, the same can be done for blind, but chaos will be subject to con #2.

4. 75 energy vs 50 energy. Suddenly blind is more spammable.

5. Blinded enemies can attack you, but so can Chaos. In blind case, enemies are still almost completely incapacitated. In chaos case, run away till one left that chases you.

6. Chaos kill faster. Useful if your weapons suck.

7. Both ignore line of sight. Total OP.

8. Both are still awesome cake.

If I missed anything, please mention it and I will adjust accordingly. But for now, this should show why blind is actually better than chaos.

You're letting your bias color your list of pros and cons. I'll reply in full when I finish my cereal, lol. Done with my cereal, I'm going to start that reply now. 

 

Chaos-

 

Pros: Do I even have to address this one? You listed ONE pro, that's it. You didn't even try.

 

Cons: So now you decide to try?

1. This is true (easily avoidable though).

2. The recast part is a valid point, the rest is a bunch of situational BS.

3. Not sure why this is a con... did you list 'does not make me a sandwich' as a con too?

4. Incorrect. 

5. It's a crowd control ability. Why is this in the list?

6. Stunning is a pro, why are you listing pros in the con category?

7. No idea if this is true or not, never used my Nyx for XP farming.

 

Radial Disarm- Careful, your favoritism is showing.

 

Pros:

1. True, the rest is a combination of your opinions and things that should be listed as cons.

2. True.

3. True.

4. Why is this being listed?

5. True.

6. True.

7. True. This is a con. True.

8. Doesn't really matter but true.

 

Cons:

1. True. True. False, Moas will shoot at you. I'd have to go check to see if this is true of other enemies since it is only the moas I remember.

2. True.

3. True.

 

Comparison:

1. This isn't a bad thing, more duration means more energy efficient and works really well for defense due to the wave structure.

2. This is a bad thing since that means you'll have to use it more often to keep enemies disabled/gimped.

3. Only if you mod Chaos for absolute min duration. Only part of con2 was actually correct.

4. 75 energy for 25 seconds of effect vs. 50 energy for 15, they're pretty even with Chaos being slightly more energy efficient (if I'm understanding my own math). So Chaos would actually be more spammable.

5. There is a huge difference here; Blinded enemies will still actively hunt for you when you fire non-silenced weapons. Chaos'd enemies will only attack you if you are the closest thing to them, otherwise they kill each other. The threat of being attacked by an enemy while chaos is up hinges completely on how stupid you are (trying to run into a crowd of chaos'd enemies).

6. That should be reworded to 'Chaos kills' since Radial blind doesn't. 

7. True.

8. True.

 

So to make my own lists with the info I listed above:

Chaos-

Pros:

1. Can be modded to 64 seconds.

2. #1 means it is more energy efficient than it's competitor.

3. Has a two second (total disable) stun.

4. Affected enemies will attack the closest target this means nice scaling damage.

5. Stuns bosses.

 

 

Cons:

1. Modding more max duration leads to problems with #2.

2. Can't be recast until the previous effect has run out or all affected enemies have been killed.

3. Enemies that kill each other don't give affinity. 

4. Total stun only lasts 2 seconds.

 

Radial Blind-

Pros:

1. Can be modded to last 25.7 seconds.

2. Has a five second (total disable) stun.

3. Can be recast.

4. Stuns and blinds bosses.

 

Cons:

1. Blinded enemies will attempt to attack you if you fire non-silenced weapons.

2. Does no damage.

3. Total stun only lasts 5 seconds.

 

Comparison:

1. Chaos is more energy efficient.

2. Chaos has scaling damage, Radial Blind does not.

3. Radial Blind is still effective when used against single targets.

4. Radial Blind's total stun lasts 3 seconds longer.

5. Radial Blind's blind works on bosses.

6. Chaos lasts longer.

7. Enemies not killed by Chaos are likely easier to kill both during and after the effect has worn off.

8. Radial Blind doesn't endanger those wishing to use melee builds.

 

If you're wondering why my lists are shorter than your's, it's because many of your points were redundant.

Edited January 20, 2014 by SquirmyBurrito

[evilfluffy]

To be perfectly honest I feel all warframes are just a matter of preference while a buff wouldn't hurt on some frames, most of the time the ones that say certain warframes are bad just aren't into that warframes style of fighting. Which in turn makes them incompatible and makes it harder (if not impossible) to play that warframe to its fullest potential.

 

Edit: On a side note yay 100th post!

Edited January 20, 2014 by evilfluffy

[aa3123]

You're letting your bias color your list of pros and cons. I'll reply in full when I finish my cereal, lol. Done with my cereal, I'm going to start that reply now.

 

Hope it was good, but there is a gold potato invasion battle pay right now.  You should do that first.

[DHKany]

Oberon is meh. 

 

Just an IMO, all of his skills are uninspired/semi-worthless 

another spam 3/4 frame that DE could have done so much more with. 

[DeltaF0rce]

Oberon sucks. Leveled for Mastery Rank and instantly sold.

 

Also do not like his looks, especially the hoofs.

[SquirmyBurrito]

Hope it was good, but there is a gold potato invasion battle pay right now.  You should do that first.

 

What?! Dang, I have to go cook, lol. Terrible luck.

[aa3123]

You're letting your bias color your list of pros and cons. I'll reply in full when I finish my cereal, lol. Done with my cereal, I'm going to start that reply now.

Chaos-

Pros: Do I even have to address this one? You listed ONE pro, that's it. You didn't even try.

Cons: So now you decide to try?

1. This is true (easily avoidable though).

2. The recast part is a valid point, the rest is a bunch of situational BS.

3. Not sure why this is a con... did you list 'does not make me a sandwich' as a con too?

4. Incorrect.

5. It's a crowd control ability. Why is this in the list?

6. Stunning is a pro, why are you listing pros in the con category?

7. No idea if this is true or not, never used my Nyx for XP farming.

Radial Disarm- Careful, your favoritism is showing.

Pros:

1. True, the rest is a combination of your opinions and things that should be listed as cons.

2. True.

3. True.

4. Why is this being listed?

5. True.

6. True.

7. True. This is a con. True.

8. Doesn't really matter but true.

Cons:

1. True. True. False, Moas will shoot at you. I'd have to go check to see if this is true of other enemies since it is only the moas I remember.

2. True.

3. True.

Comparison:

1. This isn't a bad thing, more duration means more energy efficient and works really well for defense due to the wave structure.

2. This is a bad thing since that means you'll have to use it more often to keep enemies disabled/gimped.

3. Only if you mod Chaos for absolute min duration. Only part of con2 was actually correct.

4. 75 energy for 25 seconds of effect vs. 50 energy for 15, they're pretty even with Chaos being slightly more energy efficient (if I'm understanding my own math). So Chaos would actually be more spammable.

5. There is a huge difference here; Blinded enemies will still actively hunt for you when you fire non-silenced weapons. Chaos'd enemies will only attack you if you are the closest thing to them, otherwise they kill each other. The threat of being attacked by an enemy while chaos is up hinges completely on how stupid you are (trying to run into a crowd of chaos'd enemies).

6. That should be reworded to 'Chaos kills' since Radial blind doesn't.

7. True.

8. True.

So to make my own lists with the info I listed above:

Chaos-

Pros:

1. Can be modded to 64 seconds.

2. #1 means it is more energy efficient than it's competitor.

3. Has a two second (total disable) stun.

4. Affected enemies will attack the closest target this means nice scaling damage.

5. Stuns bosses.

Cons:

1. Modding more max duration leads to problems with #2.

2. Can't be recast until the previous effect has run out or all affected enemies have been killed.

3. Enemies that kill each other don't give affinity.

4. Total stun only lasts 2 seconds.

Radial Blind-

Pros:

1. Can be modded to last 25.7 seconds.

2. Has a five second (total disable) stun.

3. Can be recast.

4. Stuns and blinds bosses.

Cons:

1. Blinded enemies will attempt to attack you if you fire non-silenced weapons.

2. Does no damage.

3. Total stun only lasts 5 seconds.

Comparison:

1. Chaos is more energy efficient.

2. Chaos has scaling damage, Radial Blind does not.

3. Radial Blind is still effective when used against single targets.

4. Radial Blind's total stun lasts 3 seconds longer.

5. Radial Blind's blind works on bosses.

6. Chaos lasts longer.

7. Enemies not killed by Chaos are likely easier to kill both during and after the effect has worn off.

8. Radial Blind doesn't endanger those wishing to use melee builds.

If you're wondering why my lists are shorter than your's, it's because many of your points were redundant.

I have went and added your points to the list.

The ability to resurrect teammates is one of the uses of a crowd control ability. The ability to crowd control a single enemy still falls under crowd control. No reasons why they are not listed.

"Situational BS" is indeed not BS. They are situations that will appear and how the abilities can handle them will show which is superior. They are especially listed here to show that chaos has limitations in different situations while blind works perfectly in areas where chaos fail. If you can come up with situations where the opposite is true, I am more than happy to add them to the list.

Duration mods is indeed not necessarily beneficial to chaos. I agree that 64 sec will be energy efficient, but it carries the con of not being recastable. MortalSin has suggest using -60% duration while minimizing the biggest con of chaos and you suggest the direct opposite while maximizing the down side, which one of you should I base this comparison on? Keep in mind that max duration also means three extra mod slots and reduces your range and NO MAX ENERGY EFFICIENCY.

If you can come up with more points, feel free to bring them up. They are welcome. But blind works 99% of the time with the catch being use your abilities more. I can't even think of that 1% where it would fail but it's probably there. Chaos works most of the time with situations where it fails, the benefit being extra damage.

Edited January 21, 2014 by aa3123

[evilfluffy]

Hope it was good, but there is a gold potato invasion battle pay right now.  You should do that first.

 

I love how potatoes bring us all together ;)

[Kontonno]

For some reason anytime people see an Oberon in games regardless of game type. I'm guilty of this as well, but is there really a valid reason? It's almost like warframe discrimination, when I see volt, Oberon, or Excalibur on survival or defense I drop and take my talents elsewhere. Pointless thread I know but just an observation I made

"Talents"

 

Ha hah! Get a load of this guy. He can't compensate for a dynamic team and then he talks about "talent".

[SquirmyBurrito]

I have went and added your points to the list.

 

The ability to resurrect teammates is one of the uses of a crowd control ability.  The ability to crowd control a single enemy still falls under crowd control.  No reasons why they are not listed.

 

"Situational BS" is indeed not BS.  They are situations that will appear and how the abilities can handle them will show which is superior.  They are especially listed here to show that chaos has limitations in different situations while blind works perfectly in areas where chaos fail.  If you can come up with situations where the opposite is true, I am more than happy to add them to the list.

 

Duration mods is indeed not necessarily beneficial to chaos but always so for blind.  I agree that 64 sec will be energy efficient, but it carries the con of not being recastable.  MortalSin has suggest using -60% duration while minimizing the biggest con of chaos and you suggest the direct opposite while maximizing the down side, which one of you should I base this comparison on?  Keep in mind that max duration also means three extra mod slots and reduces your range and NO MAX ENERGY EFFICIENCY.

 

If you can come up with more points, feel free to bring them up.  They are welcome.  But blind works 99% of the time with the catch being use your abilities more.  I can't even think of that 1% where it would fail but it's probably there.  Chaos works most of the time with situations where it fails, the benefit being extra damage. 

 

It is a possible use, not a requirement. Technically a single enemy isn't a crowd, according to a certain saying three is a crowd (lol). So working against a single target doesn't really matter when speaking strictly about crowd control abilities.

 

No, it was complete BS, but I'll explain what I mean since just calling it BS sounds immature.

 

"Timings matter more. Cast it when every mob are in range leave you open to damage until you do. Cast it early and affect a few targets means the rest aren't affected. Chaos target do draw aggro from ones that are not affected, but it will matter in situation where enemies come in from different sides and you have chaos target on 1 side."

 

58m is huge, and will cover most of a map. Not getting every enemy doesn't matter since enemies under the effect will draw still draw aggro.

 

Chaos targets on one side? What? For that to work you'd either have to move WAY too far to one side of a map OR you'd have to be on an absolutely HUGE map. This issue would also affect Radial Blind, the only difference being that Radial Blind can be recast after the 5 second stun. Realistically, to avoid those situational problems all you'd need to do is stick to the center of the map (the area where the pod is usually located in defense's case). Depending on how you have it modded you should be able to recast it before you have to worry about unaffected enemies breathing down your neck. 

 

Radial Blind fails in any situation where you have teammates who aren't using silenced weapons especially when you are fighting infested. Chaos excels against infested as well as the other two(three) factions. Unlike the situation you listed, this situation (non-silenced weapons) is going to be pretty common.

 

Duration is almost always beneficial. I did no such thing, but both ideas would work. Technically the comparison should encompass both points. 

 

Why are you bringing up the mod slots that they take up? They take up slots on Excal as well. And I don't think I ever recommended that you maximize Chaos' duration, so I'm not sure why you're bringing this up.

 

What I meant by that was that many of your points shouldn't even get their own points. They are redundant. It bloats your pros and cons lists making them look more in favor with your stance.

 

Radial Blind kinda sucks against Infested, that's an entire faction. It also doesn't do too well against the Corpus due to the moas who (last time I checked) will still shoot at the area you shoot from. Chaos, on the other hand, only 'fails' in situations where the user wastes the cast (going into enemy spawns rather than staying near the center of the map). And the scaling damage is a HUGE benefit, enemy damage scales too. Radial Blind doesn't have this benefit forcing you to shoot more (which means you're less ammo efficient). So I guess that means you're less ammo efficient, less energy efficient, and more likely to get attacked when running a Radial Blind build (Excal) instead of running a Chaos build (Excal in drag). I hadn't actually thought about that, lol.

 

Whoa we are way off topic lol. 

 

OT: One possible reason for Oberon players getting shunned might be the fact that many of them seem to be treating him like the new Rhino/Nova when playing lower/mid level content. AKA Spamming their ults.

Edited January 21, 2014 by SquirmyBurrito

[aa3123]

It is a possible use, not a requirement. Technically a single enemy isn't a crowd, according to a certain saying three is a crowd (lol). So working against a single target doesn't really matter when speaking strictly about crowd control abilities.

 

No, it was complete BS, but I'll explain what I mean since just calling it BS sounds immature.

 

"Timings matter more. Cast it when every mob are in range leave you open to damage until you do. Cast it early and affect a few targets means the rest aren't affected. Chaos target do draw aggro from ones that are not affected, but it will matter in situation where enemies come in from different sides and you have chaos target on 1 side."

 

58m is huge, and will cover most of a map. Not getting every enemy doesn't matter since enemies under the effect will draw still draw aggro.

 

Chaos targets on one side? What? For that to work you'd either have to move WAY too far to one side of a map OR you'd have to be on an absolutely HUGE map. This issue would also affect Radial Blind, the only difference being that Radial Blind can be recast after the 5 second stun. Realistically, to avoid those situational problems all you'd need to do is stick to the center of the map (the area where the pod is usually located in defense's case). Depending on how you have it modded you should be able to recast it before you have to worry about unaffected enemies breathing down your neck. 

 

Radial Blind fails in any situation where you have teammates who aren't using silenced weapons especially when you are fighting infested. Chaos excels against infested as well as the other two(three) factions. Unlike the situation you listed, this situation (non-silenced weapons) is going to be pretty common.

 

Duration is almost always beneficial. I did no such thing, but both ideas would work. Technically the comparison should encompass both points. 

 

Why are you bringing up the mod slots that they take up? They take up slots on Excal as well. And I don't think I ever recommended that you maximize Chaos' duration, so I'm not sure why you're bringing this up.

 

What I meant by that was that many of your points shouldn't even get their own points. They are redundant. It bloats your pros and cons lists making them look more in favor with your stance.

 

Radial Blind kinda sucks against Infested, that's an entire faction. It also doesn't do too well against the Corpus due to the moas who (last time I checked) will still shoot at the area you shoot from. Chaos, on the other hand, only 'fails' in situations where the user wastes the cast (going into enemy spawns rather than staying near the center of the map). And the scaling damage is a HUGE benefit, enemy damage scales too. Radial Blind doesn't have this benefit forcing you to shoot more (which means you're less ammo efficient). So I guess that means you're less ammo efficient, less energy efficient, and more likely to get attacked when running a Radial Blind build (Excal) instead of running a Chaos build (Excal in drag). I hadn't actually thought about that, lol.

 

Whoa we are way off topic lol. 

 

OT: One possible reason for Oberon players getting shunned might be the fact that many of them seem to be treating him like the new Rhino/Nova when playing lower/mid level content. AKA Spamming their ults.

 

... ok, if you are just going to brush off the weaknesses of chaos, there's really no point in arguing.  When you get a single lvl 8000 mob trying to one shot you, see if it matters then.  There's a reason why nyx have mind control and excalibur gets ... well super jump.

 

In case you haven't notice, there is a limit to the amount of mobs that appear at a given time.  Take t3 def for example.  They always spawn from the back first.  If you chaos those mobs, the group that comes form the front (long hallway) will not get hit.  Max range is the distance from pod to about the stairs.  They will be shooting at you at that point, I checked.  With blind, you can spam it as soon as they are in range and still get any that comes after.  At the last .. 3 waves or so, mobs will spawn from the back again while you are engaging the ones at the front.  Just an example, but this applies to any other defenses map when you are not dead center of the map.

 

Radial blind works in situation with non silenced weapon because you can stand there and stunlock them.  It's simply that good.  Not a one trick pony and can handle different situations.  You don't want to use your abilities a few more times to their best?  Well no one's forcing you.  Enjoy chaos.

 

You did recommend max duration when you say 64 sec vs 25.7 sec.  That's including narrow minded which reduce range and not using fleeting expertise.  75 energy will no longer be spammable.

 

Again, radial blind can stunlock all infested and corpus.  The downside of enemies attacking also applies to chaos.  But you keep brushing off the benefit of blind while ignoring that negatives also affect chaos.   In fact chaos suck against grineers and corpus because they can shoot.  Two whole factions.  If you try and stunlock with chaos, you can't.  Try stunlocking on a boss?  Enjoy doing it every 2 seconds.  I am happy with 9 sec of stun and blind.  Even if I just stunlock, I get 2.5x your duration.

 

My main isn't even excalibur, my comparison of him and nyx is based on facts, not swag.  Arguing anymore is just not worth my time since I am pretty sure it won't change your mind, but the facts are there if you decide to brush them off.  Chaos is still really good, just 2nd to blind.  Enjoy your game.

Edited January 21, 2014 by aa3123

[OmegaDrago]

Booo how would you think this about Excal I have a build that can survive with the best of them and it is centered around radial blind sucks that people keep thinking excel is worthless or something jeez.

[BadAimbot]

Booo how would you think this about Excal I have a build that can survive with the best of them and it is centered around radial blind sucks that people keep thinking excel is worthless or something jeez.

 

Excal is far from worthless. Radial Blind is pretty damn good as illustrated by the discussion going on. That doesn't help his other 3 abilities being meh though, but hey, sometimes one ability is all you need (cough Frost cough).

[Fleecemo]

You did recommend max duration when you say 64 sec vs 25.7 sec.  That's including narrow minded which reduce range and not using fleeting expertise.  75 energy will no longer be spammable.

 

I'd definitely not recommend max duration on Nyx. With a max Fleeting Expertise and no duration mods, it lasts 10 seconds and the recastability is really useful.

 

 

 

Chaos is still really good, just second to blind.

 

+1

 

Although in general I like Nyx more since Excalibur's other abilities have pretty limited use.

 

 

As for the original topic: The problem with Oberon is that he doesn't have much going for him once enemies get so tough that his abilities don't do enough damage.

 

For CC, he'd be terrible since you'd have to keep casting his abilities every few seconds.

 

His heal is worthless with the existence of Trinity; cheap, spammable Team Health Restores; Gear hotkeys; and the recent Quick Thinking buff.

 

Any role he could fill could be done much much better by other frames.

Edited January 21, 2014 by Fleecemo

[(PSN)SUZOOKUS_MAXIMUS]

I play the frames that I have most fun with. I'd guess there's some frame that under some circumstances could hinder a 4 man team but their abilities would have to pretty bad to bring the team to fail all by themselves.

[BigVida]

"Talents"

 

Ha hah! Get a load of this guy. He can't compensate for a dynamic team and then he talks about "talent".

Your welcome to play some games with me and see how HORRIBLE of a teammate I am. Warframe is a fun game, but takes no skill at all. So don't act like picking lesser warframes is a huge deal, it's a numbers game. The more effective the frame the more welcome they typically are.

[BadAimbot]

I play the frames that I have most fun with. I'd guess there's some frame that under some circumstances could hinder a 4 man team but their abilities would have to pretty bad to bring the team to fail all by themselves.

 

Easy content yes, hard content no. Warframe abilities are vital to succeeding in difficult content, and using a Warframe who is outclassed is like using a starter weapon; you're making it harder on yourself and more importantly your team. Although, there's a fine line between making things harder for your group and being responsible for failure, but you should try your best when your best is what is needed.

[Shekho]

Excalibur and Oberon are awesome frames, a maxed Oberon with his ALT kills everything, plus not to mention his 3 which is a healing move, has saved me and my teammates so many times!

 

I love how if you use it, and your teammates go down it revives them, now that is awesome!

[SquirmyBurrito]

-snip-

 

I haven't ignored anything, I'm just not creating extra stuff to hold against an ability when those extra things are largely irrelevant (it not working well against single targets- its a f'ing crowd control). And when you get a single level 8000 mob trying to oneshot you Radial Blind is not going to help much either. Not that that even matters since Chaos is a CC, not a single-target snare. Mind control is for that kind of situation.

 

I already noticed that, but it really doesn't matter since you can mod it (chaos) to work well in situations like that too. You know what you can do in those situations? Don't insta-cast Chaos just because you see enemies coming from one section. Or, cast it and mop them up before the next group becomes a threat. It is what I do. That's similar to how I played when using one of my Loki's. And this situation only applies to the largest maps, so void def, and maybe those two really big outdoors Corpus maps. I say maybe because they have pretty tight walkways so chaos'd enemies will end up plugging the holes and drawing aggro away from you and the pod.

 

1. Having to spam your ability every five seconds is not all that viable of a solution and it doesn't scale at all. Eventually you will find yourself at a point where you're taking multiple casts to kill one group of enemies (shooting at them during the five second stun). 

2. That is quite literally the definition of a one-trick pony.

3. Have fun trying to kill that group of level 8000 enemies, you better keep moving and hope no one get's a glancing blow on you.

 

No, I actually didn't. I just mentioned their max duration as pros because those are positive features of the abilities. 

 

That's 2 minutes of stunlock (24 casts, casting every 5 seconds). That is not practical. The downside hardly applies to Chaos because enemies will aggro the closest thing to them, this shouldn't be you. It's funny that you should say that when it seems to me like you're the one ignoring negative and positive aspects of both abilities. How does Chaos suck against Grineer and Corpus? Grineer tend to stay away from you, preferring to hide behind cover. This should mean that when you cast Chaos they're closer to each other than they are to you. So they shoot at each other. The same goes for Corpus but with less of an emphasis on cover and with the moas who like to rush you (they tend to do so in groups so they're still more likely to shoot at each other than you). Radial Blind ALSO has to worry about enemies that shoot since they (Moas) will still shoot at you. I'm going to go see if other ranged enemies try and shoot at me while blinded, brb... Went and checked, enemies do NOT shoot at you when blinded, could have sworn they used to. So you just have to worry about getting grenaded or melee'd. 

 

Chaos is pretty damn good against all factions. And you just brought up another single target situation. 

 

You WISH they were based purely on facts. You're ignoring how important Chaos' scaling damage is and keep bringing up your stunlocking method as if that is even practical (you get 2 minutes of stun barring whatever amount of energy you're getting back via energy siphon, teammates, gear, and/or orbs). Rhino stomp is considered decent because not only does it stun it also inflicts some damage, which lessens the amount you have to shoot (which means you're more ammo efficient). Radial Blind does not have this. I don't remember claiming Excal was your main, if it matters Nyx isn't my main either.

 

I'm pretty sure that if you took both a Chaos-only Nyx and a Radial Blind-only Excal to separate but equal defense matches (one of the three each factions) Nyx would get further in all three than Excal. Both using the same weapons modded exactly the same. If you want to claim that Radial Blind is the better Single-target snare ability, go for it. But Chaos is the better CC.

 

TL;DR- Chaos > Radial Blind, enjoy your delusion.

 

Booo how would you think this about Excal I have a build that can survive with the best of them and it is centered around radial blind sucks that people keep thinking excel is worthless or something jeez.

 

Who is saying Excal is worthless?

Edited January 21, 2014 by SquirmyBurrito

[Volume]

To be fair, both Oberon and Volt are actually excellent for survival missions.

[Naftal]

To be fair, both Oberon and Volt are actually excellent for survival missions.

Please elaborate. Neither of them has anything useful that some other frame didn't do better for survival.

[BigVida]

In still rocking nekros survival nonstop these days. I don't mind spamming desecrate and picking my undead army one bit. A formaed soma makes any frame fun and dangerous really

[aa3123]

I can't argue with you.  I already pointed out the holes in your argument but you just repeat the same thing and this time ignoring your own points as well:

 

Exhibit 1.

And when you get a single level 8000 mob trying to oneshot you Radial Blind is not going to help much either.

 

 

Stunlocking is nice

But yes, on single targets a stunlock is more useful than a crowd control.

 

 

Exhibit 2.

 

You know what you can do in those situations? Don't insta-cast Chaos just because you see enemies coming from one section.

 

 

2. Cannot be recast.  Timings matter more.  Cast it when every mob are in range leave you open to damage until you do. 

 

 

a bunch of situational BS.

 

 

Exhibit 3.

 

3. Have fun trying to kill that group of level 8000 enemies, you better keep moving and hope no one get's a glancing blow on you.

 

I'm going to go see if other ranged enemies try and shoot at me while blinded, brb... Went and checked, enemies do NOT shoot at you when blinded, could have sworn they used to. So you just have to worry about getting grenaded or melee'd.

 

 

Chaos-

Pros:

4. Affected enemies will attack the closest target this means nice scaling damage.

 

Chaos clearly has no glancing blows.

 

 

Exhitbit 5.

 

Technically a single enemy isn't a crowd, according to a certain saying three is a crowd (lol). So working against a single target doesn't really matter when speaking strictly about crowd control abilities.

 

 

Crowd control (also called CC) is a term used in MMORPGs (Massive Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Games) and MOBA (Multiplayer Online Battle Arena) games to refer to the ability to limit the number of mobs actively fighting during an encounter.^[1] It can also refer to abilities that influence or prevent the abilities or actions of other character(s).   Crowd control can be extremely powerful, controlling the possible outcomes of an encounter, as it forces opponents to use a smaller set of abilities/actions. Players use crowd control to create offense/defense ratio imbalances between themselves and their opponent(s); used properly, CC often renders an opponent nearly useless, allowing the CCer to use abilities/actions against an opponent without fear of retaliation or response. In a group setting, crowd control often makes combat safer, easier, or viable.
 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crowd_control_%28video_gaming%29

 

 

 

Exhibit 6.

Rhino stomp is considered decent because not only does it stun it also inflicts some damage, which lessens the amount you have to shoot (which means you're more ammo efficient).

 

 

scaling damage

 

Ability damage.... Ammo efficient for abilities....  Ok.  You convinced me.  I am sorry.  You are totally correct.  I am wrong.  Chaos4Life bro!

Edited January 21, 2014 by aa3123

[Fleecemo]

a maxed Oberon with his ALT kills everything

 

No he doesn't. His ult does miniscule damage compared to weapons, and is really ineffective at Crowd Control. Enemies get more and more health as they rise in level, and after a certain point, his ult just won't cut it.

 

As for his heal, Quick Thinking + spamming Team Health Restores does the same thing. Why would you take Oberon for his heal if a mod and some planning will do the same thing but more reliably, since you don't have to deal with the travel time of those orb things?

 

After a certain enemy level, his abilities are barely worth using. Mods will raise that level (to 35ish, from what I've heard), but it doesn't change the fact that there's a point in enemy scaling where he's practically dead weight and just taking up a spot that a better frame could be in.

Edited January 21, 2014 by Fleecemo