People Flying Across Rooms, Etc

[Mabswer]

Zorencopter. 

 

It will be fixed/removed in melee 2.0

We all hope so, but Same as with Rhino's mess ups show, that wont last very long :/ after all DE is aiming for pleasing the loudest of us. . .such a wh.. Edited January 25, 2014 by Letter13

[Deicul]

DE even said what this guy said IN A LIVESTREAM,man,

Because DE as always has little to no idea how to play their own game and what's going on there.

[Sanev_Khan]

Because DE as always has little to no idea how to play their own game and what's going on there.

 

To have any idea how their game works, they'd have to actually play it.

[General_Krull]

I don't think a weapon should increase mobility like this at all, unless weight becomes a factor. If a heavy melee weapon caused you to run slower and the vis versa with light weapons, then that's something to consider but being able to launch myself great distances because I swing a pair of tiny axes seems too much.

 

I'd be all for DE making base mobility faster or making melee viable, the latter being what's been promised with Melee 2.0. As for the game being "Unbearably slow" I don't know what you mean. I've been using Rush and Quick Rest and I've seen no pacing issues. Perhaps you've been using the Zorens for so long that you've been spoiled by it.

Let's look at it this way, who is it hurting if I go fast? There is no reason to remove it.

[nightrunner_ks]

Using Dual Zorens with maxed swing speed and using the slide attack in midair to achieve temporary flight.

 

A well known exploit that has been around for a while.

 

Stay slow, pubbie.

[Tr1ples1xer]

We all hope so, but Same as with Rhino's mess ups shows, that wont last very long :/ after all DE is aiming for pleasing the loudest of us. . .such a wh..

NO we don't WE LIKE ZORENCOPTER !!!

 

WF is all about speed and movement, altho it wouldn't surprise me at all that if they remove it because DE is on a mission to remove FUN from this game, lowers stamina, removes infested next up is zorencopter after they will remove the parkour mark my words :P

[Deicul]

Only a tiny fraction of warframe playerbase is dissatisfied with zorencoptering, it's not a crowd DE should listen to. Also, melee 2.0 won't remove 'quick' melee and moves that accompany it, so guess it means coptering is here to stay.

[Ced23Ric]

Whatever this is left me baffled and it's not a good thing for me to be in runs with people who use this because I don't and won't have it or use it so I get left behind as I am sure others are. There needs to be a balance here. People that are going to be left behind are going to get ticked off because if they can't get to extraction in time we lose credits. Have that happen enough and credits add up. And don't give me the answer, "Go Solo then". That's not the answer.

 

So the answer is: "I do not understand or want to partake in the options available for me, thusly, the party that does it should be punished." ?

 

This is the old Looter/Rusher debate all over again, and it boiled down to one simple answer: DE adds a gameplay preference to their matchmaking. We have been discussing this for a long time, and many, many players have no interest at all at crawlin through the levels at a relaxed jogging speed. These players, veterans of many hours, tired from the repetitive missions, just want to get things over with. Going fast is the one thing in Warframe where you can display craft and skill. Where you have a tangible challenge - the clock.

 

Removal of that element takes the last fun out of the game for those who played it a fair amount of time.

 

What we need is not appeasing the slow or fast, punishing the fast or slow, we need preferences, and we needed them eight months ago. But we still need them. I would love to select "Fast/Rush" as my playstyle and never be matched up with people who open the last locker in a godforsaken corner. I am sure those people would be happy to select "Slow/Loot" to take their time and be matched up with likeminded individuals, lest they lose their credits and/or miss stuff because the fast people are already extracting as they are still picking stuff up.

 

So, there. It's an old issue. Playstyle preferences for the matchmaker, please.

 

PS: And leave 'coptering alone, really. Dont kill the fun, DE. You don't hate fun, do you?

[General_Krull]

Only a tiny fraction of warframe playerbase is dissatisfied with zorencoptering, it's not a crowd DE should listen to. Also, melee 2.0 won't remove 'quick' melee and moves that accompany it, so guess it means coptering is here to stay.

I hope so. If they remove it I will move around only by switch teleporting those ahead of me.

[Flozilla]

damn..i did not know about this thing

[Lone_Tenno_Operative]

well if its remove i have no idea what melee i will use,zorens are the only way i can catch up with the rushing morons, i refuse to put any rush mods on ever,

so expect a lot of waitings in the end of mission and expect lots of host migrations if i see i won't make it to extraction on time

[Mercathin]

I am personally against it, because it is counter intuitive and new players may get the wrong impression/conclusion by seeing one of these players using it. People may think people are hacking/etc and leave the game to avoid such perceived atmosphere.

If it stays, it should be properly informed to new players as well, and not apart of the learning curve.

I am not advocating they remove it, but make a stand to one side of the other. Either embrace or remove.

Let's look at it this way, who is it hurting if I go fast? There is no reason to remove it.

Absence of proof is not proof of absence.  EDIT: I misread. Edited January 25, 2014 by Mercathin

[Haldos]

If they remove it I will move around only by switch teleporting those ahead of me.

I was going to attempt to explain my side, but if that's the case, then I can see we will never find common ground and any effort to establish them is fruitless. You would rather switch teleport with players than deal with mobility on your own. Best of luck to you.

[General_Krull]

Absence of proof is not proof of absence.

Except in the cases it is. Tell me, if I move around fast how is it hurting you or anyone else? I still have to wait forever at double doors or at extraction and if there were 2 other rushers with me then the slow guy was the odd one out.

 

I was going to attempt to explain my side, but if that's the case, then I can see we will never find common ground and any effort to establish them is fruitless. You would rather switch teleport with players than deal with mobility on your own. Best of luck to you.

The way I see it, you really have nothing to support your side other than "I don't like this and it should be removed." And I am dealing with mobility on my own, even when I use galatine I move around faster than everyone else.

[Tr1ples1xer]

 

Absence of proof is not proof of absence.

Lets do this again, THERE IS NO REASON TO REMOVE THIS !!

 

Its not like everyone uses it, as far as I know, people have trouble wallrunning...

 

If they remove zorencopter they are gonna piss off the true fans , the players that love WF for the speed and movement which IS the strongpoint of this game, remove that and it is just another shooter.

 

Parkour and speed is the best thing this game has and if DE doesn't see that well this game is doomed imo.

[GottFaust]

I am personally against it, because it is counter intuitive and new players may get the wrong impression/conclusion by seeing one of these players using it. People may think people are hacking/etc and leave the game to avoid such perceived atmosphere.

If it stays, it should be properly informed to new players as well, and not apart of the learning curve. 

 

I am not advocating they remove it, but make a stand to one side of the other. Either embrace or remove.

 

 

Absence of proof is not proof of absence.

Circular arguments and burden of proof help no one.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

[nightrunner_ks]

Absence of proof is not proof of absence.

 

So what you're trying to say is, just because Krull has no evidence that coptering hurts no one, that means his argument is false?

 

What a load of horse manure.

 

That quote would do well in Philosophy 101 but sorry, this is the real world. You have to think about the practicality of things.

 

There is no causal relationship between Zorencoptering and player dissatisfaction. In many cases, the slow player does the Zorencopterer a disservice by wasting his time. If a player wants to explore the linear maps that DE's procedurally generated tilesets create, he can do it solo.

[Mercathin]

I was going to attempt to explain my side, but if that's the case, then I can see we will never find common ground and any effort to establish them is fruitless. You would rather switch teleport with players than deal with mobility on your own. Best of luck to you.

 

I wouldn't mind seeing to your points, I think it should be discussed openly.

I would find it an interesting read at least.

 

 

Except in the cases it is. Tell me, if I move around fast how is it hurting you or anyone else? I still have to wait forever at double doors or at extraction and if there were 2 other rushers with me then the slow guy was the odd one out.

 

Posts about it are sign enough that the point causes discontentment, on top of that you are using appeal to tradition mostly for defense of your point. Plus being as you claim that it hurts no one but provide no proof is shifting burden of proof, people don't have to prove your claim is wrong, you have to prove it is right.

 

 

Lets do this again, THERE IS NO REASON TO REMOVE THIS !!

 

Than nothing will come of discussing it if your premise is true, so why are you opposed to it being talked about?

[Mercathin]

Circular arguments and burden of proof help no one.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

I speak from personal experience from when I started. Hence my proof is my experience and subjective views.

 

Secondly, I posted as a counter argument to challenge a claim the burden of proof resides on the initial claim being made.

 

Also, I prefer: http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ Though that one does have nicer graphics.

Edited January 25, 2014 by Mercathin

[nightrunner_ks]

people don't have to prove your claim is wrong, you have to prove it is right.

 

Wow, my mind is exploding at your ignorance

 

Like I said, what you're saying is great for community college philosophy, but unfortunately you're wrong and you know you're wrong so you try and attack the argument's basis instead of the argument itself. Does that count as Ad Hominem? Not sure, you should know, Mr. Warframe Forum Aristotle.

 

Good job making yourself look stupider than you actually are.

[GottFaust]

Mercathin, on 25 Jan 2014 - 1:59 PM, said:

I wouldn't mind seeing to your points, I think it should be discussed openly.

I would find it an interesting read at least.

Posts about it are sign enough that the point causes discontentment, on top of that you are using appeal to tradition mostly for defense of your point. Plus being as you claim that it hurts no one but provide no proof is shifting burden of proof, people don't have to prove your claim is wrong, you have to prove it is right.

Than nothing will come of discussing it if your premise is true, so why are you opposed to it being talked about?

Argumentum ad Populum, Burden of Proof (Krull was responding to the OP's claim. The burden of proof rests with the OP or those who take his/her stance), and begging the question help no one.

I speak from personal experience from when I started. Hence my proof is my experience and subjective views.

 

Secondly, I posted as a counter argument to challenge a claim the burden of proof resides on the initial claim being made.

 

Also, I prefer: http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ Though that one does have nicer graphics.

Ad Hominem and anecdotal arguments help no one.

Edited January 25, 2014 by GottFaust

[Ced23Ric]

Because a good chunk of kitchen philosophers with veiled agendas are coming out of the woodwork (just like they did everytime the old Looter/Rusher debate started), I would like to refer back to my post on page 2. Playstyle preferences affecting the matchmaking could and would have solved this quite some time ago. Yet, when you match up randomized players, naturally their playstyles will differ, and they will discomfort each other through this. There is no fault on either side. There is valid arguments for either side.

The solution is to give each side a tool to seperate themselves from those that play in a way that upsets them.

 

The solution is not the attempt to discuss in circles and pull out "Philosophy - Entrylevel Quotes" or "Debating And You - A Primer" to show that someone here has the bigger vocabulary. It is a pointless exercise in futility, because each camp is immovable in their convictions and rightfully so. I dont need to like vanilla icecream, I can simply get myself sme chocolate. Not by forcing everyone to eat chocolate icecream, but by making a conscious selection that affects only me, and not a majority of others, too.

 

That's the ticket.

[nightrunner_ks]

Argumentum ad Populum, Burden of Proof (Krull was responding to the OP's claim. The burden of proof rests with the OP or those who take his/her stance), and begging the question help no one.

Ad Hominem and anecdotal arguments help no one.

 

 

Because a good chunk of kitchen philosophers with veiled agendas are coming out of the woodwork (just like they did everytime the old Looter/Rusher debate started), I would like to refer back to my post on page 2. Playstyle preferences affecting the matchmaking could and would have solved this quite some time ago. Yet, when you match up randomized players, naturally their playstyles will differ, and they will discomfort each other through this. There is no fault on either side. There is valid arguments for either side.

The solution is to give each side a tool to seperate themselves from those that play in a way that upsets them.

 

The solution is not the attempt to discuss in circles and pull out "Philosophy - Entrylevel Quotes" or "Debating And You - A Primer" to show that someone here has the bigger vocabulary. It is a pointless exercise in futility, because each camp is immovable in their convictions and rightfully so. I dont need to like vanilla icecream, I can simply get myself sme chocolate. Not by forcing everyone to eat chocolate icecream, but by making a conscious selection that affects only me, and not a majority of others, too.

 

That's the ticket.

 

QED. Sorry Mercathin, you've lost this little spat of argumentation.

 

TL;DR: Go fast, or go solo.

[Mercathin]

Argumentum ad Populum, Burden of Proof (Krull was responding to the OP's claim. The burden of proof rests with the OP or those who take his/her stance), and begging the question help no one.

Ad Hominem and anecdotal arguments help no one.

 

OP asked why this happened, did not say it was bad or should be removed.

I am not making it a poll nor a vote but rather wanting to read someones views on a subject. I do not want people to do something because the majority wants it.

I have not attacked any poster but questioned points, only asking the subject be open for discussion. 

 

Anecdotal is the reason people wish to keep is as well, I enjoy it, it hurts no one. Hence it is removed from one side, it should be removed from both I would contest.

 

 

Because a good chunk of kitchen philosophers with veiled agendas are coming out of the woodwork (just like they did everytime the old Looter/Rusher debate started), I would like to refer back to my post on page 2. Playstyle preferences affecting the matchmaking could and would have solved this quite some time ago. Yet, when you match up randomized players, naturally their playstyles will differ, and they will discomfort each other through this. There is no fault on either side. There is valid arguments for either side.

The solution is to give each side a tool to seperate themselves from those that play in a way that upsets them.

 

The solution is not the attempt to discuss in circles and pull out "Philosophy - Entrylevel Quotes" or "Debating And You - A Primer" to show that someone here has the bigger vocabulary. It is a pointless exercise in futility, because each camp is immovable in their convictions and rightfully so. I dont need to like vanilla icecream, I can simply get myself sme chocolate. Not by forcing everyone to eat chocolate icecream, but by making a conscious selection that affects only me, and not a majority of others, too.

 

That's the ticket.

Again, not opposed it its existence, only asking for a clear stance due to confusion is causes as shown in the original post.

[General_Krull]

Posts about it are sign enough that the point causes discontentment, on top of that you are using appeal to tradition mostly for defense of your point. Plus being as you claim that it hurts no one but provide no proof is shifting burden of proof, people don't have to prove your claim is wrong, you have to prove it is right.

I replied to someone saying it should be removed, yet there is no real reason for it be removed. And as it's entirely subjective as in there are no facts other than going fast completes missions faster I can't find proof and I don't even need to because the person saying it should be removed should give reasons and then back those reasons up with more than "it's an exploit!" or "I want to explore!"