Ash, Soloist Vs Team Player

[Makya]

Am I the only one who likes Ash as a Soloist?

[Skynin]

I did, but then Loki were crafted.

[Y4gers]

Definetly not. I know enough people who love him. Although personally i brought him to 30 and now he catches spiders in the closet. Imo Loki beats him in every situation. But thats only players preferences...

[-CM-Syein]

The only thing that loki lose to Ash is a little offensive power and shield+ health. The rest, Loki win. 

[HAYABU5A]

your not alone

 

ash is definately a top tier soloist

 

uniquely he has the ability to just by pass threats like loki does but also has the toughness to fight head on uncloaked while solo 

 

a fun way to play him in a team with a solo mind set is to support the strongest team frame (ie; nova) and shadow them, protecting and causing as much damage as possible with your weapons - hes fast, tough, eluvsive, and has very high survivability when played right 

[ZT0100]

WTF is a "soloist?" If a frame is good enough to be considered a "team player" frame, then it is good enough to solo, like you can solo with Nova, Loki, or Frost in defense missions. Ash isn't a team player, which leaves him a soloist, A.K.A useless.

[Makya]

If a frame is good enough to be considered a "team player" frame, then it is good enough to solo

Not true. Being a team focused frame does not mean you can solo, it just means you work well in a team setting.

 

Ash isn't a team player, which leaves him a soloist, A.K.A useless.

Useless in a team focus setting beyond having a good weapon, and killing things.

[Sniperoth]

I play Ash 90% of the time. I also solo 90% of the time. So there

 

And we're probably not alone in this. Plenty of guys probably prefer it this way too. Just that, you know, always going solo means we'll never bump into each other. LOL

[Timberwolf581]

I play Ash just about 100% of the time. And all of these Ash threads made me log into these forums and write my first warframe post. >.>

 

I play with my friends, and while they don't visit these forums either, they have never complained about my Ash. While he might be solo oriented, I use him in team oriented missions all the time, and I have never (really) encountered any of the problems I have seen on this forum so far. (Which has only been 30 min.)

 

I have often used smoke screen and teleport to revive allies caught between a few dozen enemies, and my shuriken spam always manages to keep waves of enemies at bay. And as far as blade storm is concerned, I only use it when I know I am not needed.

 

To me, he is everything but useless.

[ExplodingStars]

I play Ash just about 100% of the time. And all of these Ash threads made me log into these forums and write my first warframe post. >.>

 

I play with my friends, and while they don't visit these forums either, they have never complained about my Ash. While he might be solo oriented, I use him in team oriented missions all the time, and I have never (really) encountered any of the problems I have seen on this forum so far. (Which has only been 30 min.)

 

I have often used smoke screen and teleport to revive allies caught between a few dozen enemies, and my shuriken spam always manages to keep waves of enemies at bay. And as far as blade storm is concerned, I only use it when I know I am not needed.

 

To me, he is everything but useless.

To you? No, of course he's not useless. To others? He's definitely useless beyond a certain point 

[-CM-Syein]

Ash is useless for other? plz, just being one of the top survival frame, he is already useful for others. Yes he's need a buff, but he's not useless.

Ash's abilities mainly for solo, benefit only himself, but smoke screen alone can carry him pretty far. 

As long as you playing with team, and you doing fine, you are team orient. 

[Nenjin]

Yeah. Ash is a survivor. I don't play Loki because he's a cupcake compared to Ash. Being fast and invisible is great and all, until you get hurt. Being pretty fast, invisible, invincible and tough is a nice balance.

 

That means he's great solo, and he's ok in groups. He has no team buffs or support skills and doesn't insta-nuke an entire room with the press of a button. That's why he gets flak from everyone.

 

If you're playing Survival, he's handy to have around when you get dropped in the middle of a pack of guys. There's some stupid tricks you can pull with his abilities and the right mods too.

 

When I'm not leveing other frames he's the one I prefer to play.

Edited January 28, 2014 by Nenjin

[Pure]

Yeah. Ash is a survivor. I don't play Loki because he's a cupcake compared to Ash. Being fast and invisible is great and all, until you get hurt. Being pretty fast, invisible, invincible and tough is a nice balance.

 

That means he's great solo, and he's ok in groups. He has no team buffs or support skills and doesn't insta-nuke an entire room with the press of a button. That's why he gets flak from everyone.

 

If you're playing Survival, he's handy to have around when you get dropped in the middle of a pack of guys. There's some stupid tricks you can pull with his abilities and the right mods too.

 

When I'm not leveing other frames he's the one I prefer to play.

 

Do you have a version of ash no one else has?  How is he invincible and tough?  That doesn't even make sense.

 

I don't even know how you can compare loki when you say you don't play him.

 

We all know Loki is the master race.  The only people that deny it are ash players.

[Shienpoh]

Do you have a version of ash no one else has?  How is he invincible and tough?  That doesn't even make sense.

 

I don't even know how you can compare loki when you say you don't play him.

 

We all know Loki is the master race.  The only people that deny it are ash players.

Invincible, because during Bladestorm Ash IS invincible.

Tough, because he has the highest amount of Base-Health (same as Saryn) and a good amount of Armor

And he can make himself invisible (and stagger everyone around him), which adds to the two attributes ;)

[KoshLovesYou]

I don't really enjoy soloing, myself, but I can see why some people do/need to.

I like it even less when someone plays solo in a public game. Loki seems to be the worse offender; that one guy who rushes to the end, sits on the exit despite nobody else wanting to head out yet, or who spams the 'Your Team Mate Needs Help Opening A Door'. I usually die a bit inside when I see a Loki on a team, expecting this.

Which is probably why I'm so quick to thank a Loki who DOES support a team, because they've got amazing skills for it. Radial Disarm gets so neglected!

And in that context: Yeah, Ash is better for 'solo', just due to having so few support abilities. The far cheaper invisibility and room clearing 4th is about all I can use to help out people, and usually my invisibility is just good for rezzing someone when they've gone down. The best I can do is teleport to someone whose gone down, or remove a big threat while someone else gets them on their feet.

Which, in a way, is fun. But not as useful as Loki can be. Still doesn't make me wince less when I see a Loki join, though. They do tend to be "That Guy" Frames. :)

[Wiegraf]

Ash is a solo frame for many reasons :

 

- He has high base HP (tied with Saryn)

- He has great speed

- His first 2 abilities are "fire and forget" (Shurikens auto-targets, Smoke Bomb is self AoE as long as you're on the ground)

- His 3 ability is a mobility teleport

- His 4 ability is automatic and lengthy

 

His viability in a group is dependent on the group itself. If it's composed of nukers, then Ash has little use there (and considering the 'easy' frames are the Nuke frames, you run into a lot of those). However, a good Ash player knows how to play his assets right to support a group as well.

 

And remember that I refer to normal play, not Endless or long Survival : Ash can be viable in any regular missions, alerts, or Nightmare mode on the star map, the Derelicts and the Void. Bring an Ash along and he'll do his share of work (assuming the player himself isn't incompetent).

 

The problem is people ALWAYS put up frame performance against Endless Defenses and Survival when it has been made clear that these are just 2 modes amongst many as well as being endlessly scaling which means that OF COURSE, it's going to end up being a 1 or 2 frame pick for those missions.

 

Who knows, maybe with the upcoming "end game" that DE mentionned in their latest streams, Ash will actually be more useful than other frames for these situations; however, we don't know what they are yet.

 

Also another thing to take notice of; since Ash has no resort like Nova or Rhino to mass kill (Blade Storm is too slow in comparison and locks you out); his performance is more reliant on player skill than most frames. A good, apt Ash player in a team is usually a good player period.

 

Whenever you finish a mission and notice that the Ash player has done most of the work or at least done well enough to be one of the top performers, then you do get the feeling the player behind it knows his stuff and that if push comes to shove even in another frame, then he'll pull it off from working his &#! off for it, not just pressing a few buttons and watch the world burn.

 

 

I like it even less when someone plays solo in a public game. Loki seems to be the worse offender; that one guy who rushes to the end, sits on the exit despite nobody else wanting to head out yet, or who spams the 'Your Team Mate Needs Help Opening A Door'. I usually die a bit inside when I see a Loki on a team, expecting this.

 

I noticed that there isn't actually need to activate a console for this message to show sometime; it seems to trigger whenever someone passes close to one. For example, run Kappa and on the last wave, after activating the two consoles, the message can still pop up from time to time while you're in the middle of defending the pod; I noticed people walked by the consoles when they did and I highly doubt they stopped to activate it.