Luck Is The Only Way To Progress In Update 7.

[krisp]

Do you even hear how $&*&*#(%& doest it sound? "You farn the amazing M Prime". - its SECOND mission in game. Its not meant to be grinding grounds, the times on Lineage II has passed dude, noone want to sit in starting area repeating stuff over over.

Whole Merqury should be (and it WAS back in 6) "tutorial" for different missions types + soft introduction of crafting.

Then you start your jorney to different planets.

Forcing new players to sit on their asses with basic weapon, limited (since you now either fuse mods and SPEND money or sell mods and loose power) income, bizzare cash-shop prices is a nice way to turn alot of people from this game.

You don't say.

[derclaw]

Actually, it provides incentive for higher level players to run missions with low level players which a good thing imo.

Stupidity is strong in this one. So you thinnk its fun to have high lvl "Dominator-rapist" on your low lvl team who just steam rolls everything in sight? Or its fun for high lvl dude to steam roll through low lvl content he has run over gadzilion times.

Meh...

Yes its dungeon crawler. But I dont remebr that in GOOD dungeons crawlers you have to farm first map of the first act for a week even if you have outlvled mobs 6 days ago.

And rising drop rates of hp\shiled mods wont solve the problem since we will still have unlucky people who will struggle to get one in a long time. Basics should be given for free, Luxurity should be something you need to work for - idealy with as little rng as possible, so people know what they are aiming for.

Edited March 24, 2013 by derclaw

[Ptolemaios]

So... to all the people that are complaining with no solutions.. what is your suggestion to fix it?

I don't "Hate" how it is, but I do think it would be a welcome addition if you could purchase "X" mod from the market for currency or Plat.

Thoughts?

that would be the definition of a pay2win model.

[Pixues]

There should be a select number of essential mods up for sale...Being able to be bought for credits or platinum.

things like:

- Hp increase

- Shield increase

- Damage increase for each weapon type.

Other than that...everything has to be found in-game or mod chance packs.

[Aggh]

Its bad really i still cant find last skills of volt including overvolt also been farming alloy and galium like crazy with no luck :( i hate it.Some stuff drops wayyyy to often like polimer something called,and alloy/gallium etc way too rare.

You get a copy of overload with volt o,o

You get a copy of each of the frame's skills with it.

Edited March 24, 2013 by Aggh

[Aggh]

Stupidity is strong in this one. So you thinnk its fun to have high lvl "Dominator-rapist" on your low lvl team who just steam rolls everything in sight? Or its fun for high lvl dude to steam roll through low lvl content he has run over gadzilion times.

Meh...

Yes its dungeon crawler. But I dont remebr that in GOOD dungeons crawlers you have to farm first map of the first act for a week even if you have outlvled mobs 6 days ago.

And rising drop rates of hp\shiled mods wont solve the problem since we will still have unlucky people who will struggle to get one in a long time. Basics should be given for free, Luxurity should be something you need to work for - idealy with as little rng as possible, so people know what they are aiming for.

It also means that you're forced to play with low level players and can give them tips on how to play the game.

You don't have to farm the first map. You can easily do all the sub level 30 missions without hp and shield mods. That's the biggest flaw in the argument. As long as those systems got a slightly higher drop rate on hp and shield mods, most of the complaining would go away. For most of the game HP and shield mods are a luxury. Hell, with the sentinel guardian mod and an armor mod you can tank just as effectively as if you had a shield mod alone. It instantly restores ~100 shields even when not fully recharged and generally only a tiny amount of damage gets through meaning that the with an armor mod (which are nowhere near as rare as hp or shield mods) you barely take any damage.

Edited March 24, 2013 by Aggh

[ZephyrFlow]

I joined a defense mission once and when round 5 was over.. holy crap.. a wild shield mod appeared! I claimed and exit the def mission and never look back. The way RNG is right now, pretty stupid IMO, i got that shield mod after 3 days farming low level planets.

[Tobestik]

I have yet to find a hp/shield mod. It is fusterating dying because each of my warframes have low hp/shields but you just got to be strategic in order to survive as stated by others. I think that is what makes the game so fun.

Edited March 26, 2013 by Tobestik

[CosyPigeon]

If the OP wants the game to be easier he can just grind for those mods just like you would grind for gear in any dungeon crawler. It's entirely up to him if he wants to do that since they aren't actually necessary to progress in the game. Again, he's not whining about customization, he's whining about being able to progress through the game, that's why he's complaing about not being able to leave starter planets. Otherwise he'd be *@##$ing about power max mods (which are just about as rare as shield mods) too.

Like I said before, people raised the same $#*(@ fit before when shield mods got nerfed from 10k+ shields down to 5-800ish shields. Everyone was going on and on about how their survivability was S#&$ without thousands of shields, but somehow they got used to it without any further changes.

Aggh could please refrain from making S#&$ up about me. I've said it 3 times already in this thread and numerous times in other threads, but since you seem to have trouble reading, I'll repeat it again just for you.

I don't care about the level reset. What I care about is that all of your progression is determined by a random number generator, and that for many people, that RNG is preventing people from getting shield mods, and whilst you may not need shield mods to experience content in the game, they do.

We get it, you're a selfish elitist jerk who doesn't want other people to enjoy the game because it might make it too easy for you, and that would be far worse than a flawed game mechanic that drives away new players and results in the death of the game right?

If you are worried about the game becoming too easy, why don't you start your own thread requesting that the Devs make harder in game content for you to conquer, rather than trying to discredit the idea that pure RNG based progression is bad by claiming that all I do is whinge about a game play mechanic that you think is fine, and a large group of players find frustrating.

It is possible to explore new areas and defeat enemies without shield or HP mods, for many players, doing so is also simply not fun. Those players will\have already left the game (new players are coming yes, and more people are playing post update 7 and pre update 7, but that tends to happend when you go from CLOSED beta to OPEN beta). I'm not one of them, despite its flaws I really enjoy warframe, which is why I joined the founders program. Without new players warframe will fail. The current mechanic of luck based progression is driving them away, this is a bad thing. Surely you should be able to see that?

If you want the game to be harder, make a thread to that effect, rather than pretending that pure luck based progression is good game design.

[Spencley]

I've pulled in about 250 mods since U7.

I've had at least 2 of every Warframe mod except for +shield. I have a nice set for most every weapon, especially pistol (I've got 60% multishot) and melee (rank 3 charge rate and damage).

I had 3 silences ("rare") drop in a single run. I had 2 teleports ("rare") drop in a single run. I've had 4 separate frame skills ("rare") drop in a single run.

I'm still trying to get my hands on a "common" Redirection mod. I'm still at a loss for what "common" means in this context.

Common - IN this game probably means it shares a drop rate with every other common mod... However some of the common mods most likely have a higher chance then others.

Mod drops - Is it common or rare? Its common - Now game decides if it is a rare common or a common one...

[KazyJumps]

While I like that the game is harder, and I always play coop so it's less of an issue for me, would it hurt to make rank 1 health/shield mods be availiable on the market? Even with a pretty high price (hey, you just farmed 10 missions and didn't get it? Fine, you got enough money to buy it from the market now) people who want/need it could grab it.

You could argue that it makes the game easier, but does it? They could've got that mod from the RNG first time, but they didn't. The game is only 'easier' in that they are guarenteed to have the option of choosing health/shield mods for their frame, not reliant on RNG to gain that option. Aside from that nothing changes. Nothing is nerfed, nothing is buffed, just more people having options that luck would have given them eventually anyway, if they bothered to sit down for x hours to farm it.

Now if people were asking for levels to be nerfed for the benefit of solo players that'd be different, but nobody (in this thread) is asking for that.

ps I hate the idea suggested earlier of replacing health/shield/Rate of fire/w/e mods with others and having those added by leveling*. Being able to trade off health or shield or other stuff for a bonus makes my warframe more customizable, I want to be able to do it, and the power system lets me. I'm much rather you gain access to the cards in a reliable manner, at least the basic ones, than health/shield/other stuff be gained solely through leveling.

*I do like the idea of more mods with more effects, just not the idea of removing the health/shield/whatever ones.

[Aggh]

Aggh could please refrain from making S#&$ up about me. I've said it 3 times already in this thread and numerous times in other threads, but since you seem to have trouble reading, I'll repeat it again just for you.

I don't care about the level reset. What I care about is that all of your progression is determined by a random number generator, and that for many people, that RNG is preventing people from getting shield mods, and whilst you may not need shield mods to experience content in the game, they do.

We get it, you're a selfish elitist jerk who doesn't want other people to enjoy the game because it might make it too easy for you, and that would be far worse than a flawed game mechanic that drives away new players and results in the death of the game right?

If you are worried about the game becoming too easy, why don't you start your own thread requesting that the Devs make harder in game content for you to conquer, rather than trying to discredit the idea that pure RNG based progression is bad by claiming that all I do is whinge about a game play mechanic that you think is fine, and a large group of players find frustrating.

It is possible to explore new areas and defeat enemies without shield or HP mods, for many players, doing so is also simply not fun. Those players will\have already left the game (new players are coming yes, and more people are playing post update 7 and pre update 7, but that tends to happend when you go from CLOSED beta to OPEN beta). I'm not one of them, despite its flaws I really enjoy warframe, which is why I joined the founders program. Without new players warframe will fail. The current mechanic of luck based progression is driving them away, this is a bad thing. Surely you should be able to see that?

If you want the game to be harder, make a thread to that effect, rather than pretending that pure luck based progression is good game design.

And I've said a dozen times over, you're not locked to mecury just because you don't have hp or shield mods. In mars/jupiter/venus you practically have to TRY to get yourself killed.

That and HP mods are not nearly as rare as you make them out to be. A clan mate of mine started out the game a couple days ago and I told him to grind m prime. Low and behold he got a vit mod within 20 minutes. A guy in global chat yesterday asking about where he could get one, was immediately told by multiple people to farm M prime, and guess what? He got one after a bit of grinding there too. The only people I've seen who haven't been able to do that are the ones in this thread that are using their alleged bad luck to back up their argument. Everyone else has multiple vit mods, because they're not all that uncommon of a drop and haven't been the whole time.

You sound like the guy who said he was going to quit the game because he kept on dying as loki in mecury. Except in that thread, everyone thought it was just fine to dump on that guy for being bad and not being able to figure out the game.

Also, this is an open forum. If you don't like people discussing the flaws in your arguments, don't bother posting them.

Edited March 26, 2013 by Aggh

[krisp]

And I've said a dozen times over, you're not locked to mecury just because you don't have hp or shield mods.

supposed bad luck

vit mods

not being able to figure out the game

Things have a tendency to just fly right past you, don't they.

Being able to trade off health or shield or other stuff for a bonus makes my warframe more customizable

Except as it is right now, nothing is comparable to health/shields power-wise. That's the inherent problem, the existence of "mandatory" mods. You may not need them to eventually finish a mission, but they have such a huge impact on the overall gameplay that you never want to go without them. Edited March 26, 2013 by krisp

[Buddlschlumpf]

After playing U7 for a couple of hours now, my conclusion is: Getting that one first card to start fusing is too much luck dependent. It might take hours of playing to get it. After that, progress is very controlable and skill/decision based. They somehow need to make getting that one first card more reliable. Everything else seems fine.

[Aggh]

After playing U7 for a couple of hours now, my conclusion is: Getting that one first card to start fusing is too much luck dependent. It might take hours of playing to get it. After that, progress is very controlable and skill/decision based. They somehow need to make getting that one first card more reliable. Everything else seems fine.

Lol wut? You have an almost guaranteed mod drop on multiple levels within the first system. Getting a good mod quickly might need a bit of luck, but most of them can be gotten within a reasonable amount of time.

Things have a tendency to just fly right past you, don't they.

Right back at you. Keep on whining plox :|

Except as it is right now, nothing is comparable to health/shields power-wise. That's the inherent problem, the existence of "mandatory" mods. You may not need them to eventually finish a mission, but they have such a huge impact on the overall gameplay that you never want to go without them.

Guardian and steel fiber.

Edited March 26, 2013 by Aggh

[Supern00b]

Things have a tendency to just fly right past you, don't they.

Except as it is right now, nothing is comparable to health/shields power-wise. That's the inherent problem, the existence of "mandatory" mods. You may not need them to eventually finish a mission, but they have such a huge impact on the overall gameplay that you never want to go without them.

Why do you guys keep responding to the troll.

Nobody is that mentally deficient without doing it on purpose.

Also I farmed 6 days of M Prime. Got nothing, So you can suck a $&*^ with the "Go farm the Amazing M Prime" Sh*t

But I did get my Shield mod farming Tolstoj Chronus atleast 10 20 times (only reliable way to get money with 100 shield)

Just out of curiousity. How do the newbies get the 115k and materials for the Guardian? You expect newer players to pay money right off the bat?

Just wanna say. I love how the people who are against this idea are generally the free players.

Because sitting there farming this game all day will keep it afloat huh?

Edited March 26, 2013 by Supern00b

[Mir.]

After reading 6 pages of this thread or so, I sincerely hope Aggh realizes that he's bi-losing. Repeating and reiterating the same old arguements while casually tossing out a few insults is definitely a no-go.

Personally, I believe I took about 40 hours (40 hours is roughly how much time an adult spends working full time for 5 days a week FYI) or so to finally get one shield mod, surprisingly from Eris wave 5 reward. I have a truck load of Vitality mods, perhaps 10. Couldn't agree more with thread title. Luck seems the only way.

[Aggh]

I'm only saying it because you get hung up on the "game is more challenging and that's ok" argument and never EVER address the fact that RNG-based systems where one player has a harder time than others through no fault of his own is bad game design. Because that's exactly what we're discussing here. We're not whining, we're expressing our concerns.

So go on. Reply to me and start mentioning Tolstoj again, and how M Prime is so easy to farm and gives you a mod in 20 minutes. Tell me all about how one HP mod carries you through the game and just ignore the underlying problem. I'll just keep making fun of you like i do with all the people who are too stupid to talk to.

Scale with shield+hp mods and are pretty useless by themselves. Try again.

Lol if an HP mod can't get you through the entire game you can't be helped. 5 ranks in it gives you 300% health. It's over kill even on its own.

You regain 100ish shields from guardian pretty much instantly once your shields go down. Steel fiber minimizes the small amount of damage that gets through. You practically take no damage because of that.

After reading 6 pages of this thread or so, I sincerely hope Aggh realizes that he's bi-losing. Repeating and reiterating the same old arguements while casually tossing out a few insults is definitely a no-go.

Personally, I believe I took about 40 hours (40 hours is roughly how much time an adult spends working full time for 5 days a week FYI) or so to finally get one shield mod, surprisingly from Eris wave 5 reward. I have a truck load of Vitality mods, perhaps 10. Couldn't agree more with thread title. Luck seems the only way.

I've never denied that the shield mod is too hard to get. These guys think vit mods are just as hard though. And that people are locked in mecury until they get shield and HP mods. The only reason it might seem like I'm losing is because I'm the only one willing to address the flaws in the argument of a small, vocal, butt hurt minority.

Edited March 26, 2013 by Aggh

[Buddlschlumpf]

There are seriously still some people in here who do not understand what RANDOM number generator aka rng means? All this "farm mercury" bull S#&$ is total crap. You either get lucky and find a lot of them or you are screwed and you find none at all. The only shield mods I got are as wave reward from defense missions. I haven't found a single shield mod on the ground yet.

So, to make it more clear to everyone not understanding the nature of randomness: Given a large enough group of players - like in warframe where you have several thousand of them - it's almost certain that you'll have players that have the worst imaginable luck. It's totally probable to play for dozens of hours without finding any shield mod.

And of course there will be people who find a shield mod around every other corner. Which means: If you got lucky and found a lot of shield mods, it's doesn't matter at all. Not the slightest. It's completely irrelevant for what might happen to other people. That's what RANDOM means.

To sum it up: Binding something as important as a shield mod onto something as unreliable as RNG is a really bad idea.

Edited March 26, 2013 by Buddlschlumpf

[Aggh]

There are seriously still some people in here who do not understand what RANDOM number generator aka rng means? All this "farm mercury" bull S#&$ is total crap. You either get lucky and find a lot of them or you are screwed and you find none at all. The only shield mods I got are as wave reward from defense missions. I haven't found a single shield mod on the ground yet.

So, to make it more clear to everyone not understanding the nature of randomness: Given a large enough group of players - like in warframe where you have several thousand of them - it's almost certain that you'll have players that have the worst imaginable luck. It's totally probable to play for dozens of hours without finding any shield mod.

And of course there will be people who find a shield mod around every other corner. Which means: If you got lucky and found a lot of shield mods, it's doesn't matter at all. Not the slightest. It's completely irrelevant for what might happen to other people. That's what RANDOM means.

To sum it up: Binding something as important as a shield mod onto something as unreliable as RNG is a really bad idea.

SHIELD MODS HAVE A S#&$TY DROP RATE, NO ONE IS DENYING THAT IS PROBLEMATIC. HP mods on the other hand do not. And can get you through a significant part of the game before you actually need a shield mod. This means that unlike what the OP has stated, people are not locked to mecury because of RNG. But hey, keep it up with the straw men, whatever makes you feel better.

Edited March 26, 2013 by Aggh

[Mir.]

I've never denied that the shield mod is too hard to get. These guys think vit mods are just as hard though. And that people are locked in mecury until they get shield and HP mods. The only reason it might seem like I'm losing is because I'm the only one willing to address the flaws in the argument of a small, vocal, butt hurt minority.

See what I mean by "casually tossing out a few insults" now?

Yeah I read that you mentioned a few times that shield mods are a pain to get. Oh, and that was my personal stand, not directed at you or anything, no need for a rebuttal.

And again another personal experience, I remember when I logged on just after update 7, made a few runs on Mercury, got some weapon mods, maxxed my skills and after that I went to Io on Jupiter.

After about 20 hours or so farming, I went to Xini and survived about 10 waves, I was decently pleased with myself. I did NOT have any shield or vitality mods up till this point. I depended on my Scindo for Xini.

Another point to note is skills; how well you aim and dodge Ancients' shield sucking attacks, how you deploy your abilities.

While I agree that shield and health mods play a BIG factor in survivability, but basics skills still play a role too.

[Buddlschlumpf]

Vitality mods are similarly hard. I have found 4! in total in over 40 hours of playing U7.

[Aggh]

Vitality mods are similarly hard. I have found 4! in total in over 40 hours of playing U7.

That would be problematic if you didn't only really need just one :|

[VelenoHargreaves]

I have a vitality mod that are already giving me 250% life, in a total of 100/525 on Ash, and a 40% Armor... As I could notice Ash will be some what kind of tank (first choice after Rhino maybe...) Since, IF, my math is correct He will have 600/900 Shield/Health+x% Armor At maxed (Don't know how much Armor you recieve when maxed) But even so I can manage some high level missions (only because I have 525 health with 40% armor) and even so I don't rush the mission, I always try to start on stealth (not that is much of an appealing gameplay since the game HAVE alot of bugs in the "Stealth System") But yeah I farmed already something like 20~35 hours of U7 and still didn't get a shield mod (p.s. go for Corpus missions, better mod drops, just got a fire/shock melee mod from them) and start farm, you don't need to play 6 hours straight (because let's face it, this can be boring or people just don't have that kind of time) Do like 4 missions, stop do something else, go back farm a little more and surely you will get some mods... I'm having my problems with the Random-Drops from U7 but well, that gave me a north to keep playing, my motivation (at least a little now) is to get my weapons/warframe back to the TOP. And I'm sure with this new mod system, in a month or two most of people will be Overpowered again! My Ash is far more powerful now then it was on U6 (can't say the same from my Excalibur Prime, but well I just need some other mods for my latron ^^'

[Buddlschlumpf]

That would be problematic if you didn't only really need just one :|

That is problematic, as it means, you can play for 20 hours without finding one.