Don't Forget The Brakk, De ;)

[ArmyOfFun]

Also, I forgot to add:

 

The Brakk has 2 polarities, while the Detron has NOT A SINGLE ONE.

 

And the Crit Chance is not even: Brakk 15%, Detron 10%.

 

I'm not whining about shotguns in general, they should be close-quarter weapons, but the Brakk excels in this category.

 

What I want is, that the Detron is brought up to the Brakk (more similar crit chance/damage, polarities, damage)

My bad on the crit stats.

 

I'm up for the Detron and the rest of the shotguns to be better close-quarter weapons /support.  Primary shot guns with the exception of Drakgoon need to be buffed in stats.  Changing the mod stats on shotguns would just make Drakgoon overshadow the other shotguns even more.

[Grulos]

My bad on the crit stats.

 

I'm up for the Detron and the rest of the shotguns to be better close-quarter weapons /support.  Primary shot guns with the exception of Drakgoon need to be buffed in stats.  Changing the mod stats on shotguns would just make Drakgoon overshadow the other shotguns even more.

Yeah, they need to change the weapons, not the mods, otherwise the imbalance would worsen.

[HillsAndTheSea]

So many assumptions are required to compare these values its friggin' ridiculous.  Damage falloff, hitting weak points, damage type effectiveness, ammo efficiency (on some weapons, implies a very low sustained DPS)

 

in suboptimal settings, weapons are usually compared by burst dps, sustained dps is only used in the case the burst dps is not sufficent (ie you have to reload), but in a game with infinitely scaling enemies, and not always being able to equip optimal mods, there will always be a point where sustained dps becomes the best way to compare how a weapon will always perform at its absolute best

 

damage falloff, ammo management, hitting weapon points, damage type effectiveness, and many other elements are all the responsiblity of the player more so than the weapon.

 

damage falloff is a result of bad player positioning or target selection

not hitting weak points (or the enemy at all) is result of failed aim in combination of the above

most of the game is fast paced, close quarters, it is extremely easy to find optimal positioning, especially with warframe powers

ammo efficiency is a result of bad trigger control or being too lazy to make ammo restores, which are in abdunance

damage type effectiveness is mostly irrelevant since roughly 70% of your damage is from your elemental mods

 

warframe is a complete numbers game, there is no reason not to use damage per second to compare weapons,for the record you dont always have to use "optimal sustained dps" to compare them, 

[Bennyboombox]

The Brakk should be on-par with the Detron.

 

The Brakk is severely overpowered (the damage fall off does nothing): Higher rate of fire, much higher damage/pellet count/crit chance/crit damage.

 

Brakk S#&$s on every other gun.

 Who ever said they should be on par? strong delusions

[OblivionNecroninja]

What i see here is that secondaries are a better DPS than primaries. 

This is the REAL problem, imo.

[Grulos]

 Who ever said they should be on par? strong delusions

They should be, because both _could_ be obtained (in theory, if the Corpus won, we would have the Detron first) from the Gradivus Event and they are the same weapon (from different factions).

 

Also, BALANCE.

Edited February 5, 2014 by Grulos

[Qmoney]

damage falloff is a result of bad player positioning or target selection

not hitting weak points (or the enemy at all) is result of failed aim in combination of the above

 

If you actually read to the end, you would see the point that weapons that are only accurate face to face with the target put you way too close to very high level enemies... as in enemies that one-shot everything.

 

For example, a heavy cal max-DPS synapse is fun to spray around, but it doesn't necessarily get headshots at the synapse max range even if you are pointing right at the head.  If you drop heavy cal, and use another elemental, you lose, overall, maybe 25% dps, but can get every hit on the head/weak point, resulting in a higher actual damage output on target. 

 

If this was a strictly 'by the numbers' game, you wouldn't see people running low dps weapons to good effect, but you do.

 

This is a fast paced game, but with great potential for twitch aiming and use of cover/tactics to produce a better result from a lower numbers weapon.

 

I understand that you aren't capable of reliably hitting headshots from range/on the fly, so you should probably continue to use spray and pray tactics.

[Guest Shibboleet]

If you actually read to the end, you would see the point that weapons that are only accurate face to face with the target put you way too close to very high level enemies... as in enemies that one-shot everything.

 

For example, a heavy cal max-DPS synapse is fun to spray around, but it doesn't necessarily get headshots at the synapse max range even if you are pointing right at the head.  If you drop heavy cal, and use another elemental, you lose, overall, maybe 25% dps, but can get every hit on the head/weak point, resulting in a higher actual damage output on target. 

 

If this was a strictly 'by the numbers' game, you wouldn't see people running low dps weapons to good effect, but you do.

 

This is a fast paced game, but with great potential for twitch aiming and use of cover/tactics to produce a better result from a lower numbers weapon.

 

I understand that you aren't capable of reliably hitting headshots from range/on the fly, so you should probably continue to use spray and pray tactics.

Can you give some examples on the low dps weapons used for late game?

Everything that he said in his post was accurate.

Edited February 5, 2014 by Shibboleet

[Qmoney]

Can you give some examples on the low dps weapons used for late game?

Everything that he said in his post was accurate.

 

I gave you an example... getting more actual damage from the technically lower dps synapse build.  The sentence even starts out with "for example".

 

Edit: Also, i was responding to a comment he made to my previous post, which wasn't praising bad weapons.  I'm not saying that every weapon is viable.  Game progression should mean getting some better guns... I think that there should be end-game weapons that are flat out better than the rest, that aren't purchasable.

 

However, I am saying that DPS is overused as a stat, and is often quoted for weapons using loadouts that wouldn't be fully delivering damage to the target in the quantity they claim.  Again, FOR EXAMPLE, a heavy cal vs. non-heavy cal synapse loadout.  Or, for example, shotgun weapons with very short damage falloff or wide spread, especially using vicious spread.

 

To further the point, area of effect weapons like the ignis, penta and ogris can have either very high or low to mediocre DPS, depending on how many targets they hit.  The dps of the penta, well modded, on a mob is only limited by how many enemies are in said mob.  On a single enemy, it is only okay.

 

Can you give me an example of giving an example better than calling it an example?  How can I more clearly indicate that I am making an example in the future?

Edited February 5, 2014 by Qmoney

[Guest Shibboleet]

I gave you an example... getting more actual damage from the technically lower dps synapse build.  The sentence even starts out with "for example".

I mean examples where players are bringing in the the certain low dps weapon into a long lasting game. The synapse is never used where the Brakk and other high dps weapons are. (Remember that ammo efficiency is taken into account to an extent as 200 ammo boxes would eventually be eaten up)

Edited February 5, 2014 by Shibboleet

[ViLeDeth]

TL;DR

 

10char.

[Pazgabear]

They should be, because both _could_ be obtained (in theory, if the Corpus won, we would have the Detron first) from the Gradivus Event and they are the same weapon (from different factions).

 

Also, BALANCE.

 

The Brakk was given to players when damage 1.0 was still in effect

 

Detron has full radiation damage, which didn't exist in damage 1.0. That means that DE worked on the Detron meanwhile they were working on damage 2.0/after damage 2.0, possibly tweaking it.

 

So yeah, i'm pretty sure that if the Corpus had won the Gradivius Dilemma, you would be here saying that the Detron needs a nerf and the Brakk should be buffed

[Vanhline]

i do not have a brakk

 

i was in the hospital wile that event was going

 

it does not need to be nurfed.

 

they just need to take better care in the future when making weapons to make sure they dont end up so much more powerful then everything else. something they admitted too in i believe live stream 19 or 20.

[ReptileZA]

i do not have a brakk

 

i was in the hospital wile that event was going

 

it does not need to be nurfed.

 

they just need to take better care in the future when making weapons to make sure they dont end up so much more powerful then everything else. something they admitted too in i believe live stream 19 or 20.

If you dont have the brakk then you cant say it shouldn't be nerfed IMO. And it wasnt said that the Brakk was an exclusive so we might still get it.

[Innosin]

If you own it, then you would have know bluntly over powering that weapon is.

 

It seems the best counter argument opposing nerfing the brakk in this forum by far is simply.

 

"don't take my crutch to reach high level wave away"

 

Sorry, but the situation in which players must rely on an event exclusive gun to reach higher level wave than they normally could shouldn't even occurred in the first place.

 

 

 

 

 

 

i do not have a brakk

 

i was in the hospital wile that event was going

 

it does not need to be nurfed.

 

they just need to take better care in the future when making weapons to make sure they dont end up so much more powerful then everything else. something they admitted too in i believe live stream 19 or 20.

[LazyKnight]

Sorry, but the situation in which players must rely on an event exclusive gun to reach higher level wave than they normally could shouldn't even occurred in the first place.

If there was a point in doing anything higher than 15 minutes survival or wave 15, I might care. Any high wave defense or survival duration maps are a futile endeavor that just wastes time for no obvious payout.

 

As is, the only supported high level content that a Brakk would be good for is a t3 defense, even then it's not a required item to achieve victory. I have soloed T3 defense with a Karak (took a bunch of ammo packs), Burston prime, Seer, and a bunch of other non-overpowered weapons.  

 

The only time Brakk would be required is when someone has crap for mods, and doesn't have the ability to make other weapons decent.

 

I am an owner of a Brakk, and end up using my Detron over it anyway. Brakk is only blatantly powerful if it's fired as a fast as its fire-rate will allow it. Its base fire rate is too high, it couldn't hurt to lower it down to Detron's level.

Edited February 5, 2014 by LazyKnight

[Guest Shibboleet]

If you own it, then you would have know bluntly over powering that weapon is.

 

It seems the best counter argument opposing nerfing the brakk in this forum by far is simply.

 

"don't take my crutch to reach high level wave away"

 

Sorry, but the situation in which players must rely on an event exclusive gun to reach higher level wave than they normally could shouldn't even occurred in the first place.

Not necessarily a must, but it does help a lot.

[yarash2110]

unless RNG really hates you, there is no weappon that you needed to work for harder then this one

[Qmoney]

I mean examples where players are bringing in the the certain low dps weapon into a long lasting game. The synapse is never used where the Brakk and other high dps weapons are. (Remember that ammo efficiency is taken into account to an extent as 200 ammo boxes would eventually be eaten up)

 

You do realize that impressive, end game gameplay isn't limited to "I got to x round in a defense or x minute in a survival by bringing a bunch of trinities", right?  Blessing will get a nerf, and updates will introduce more ways to shine than exploiting broken abilities.  (don't get me wrong, I love running around perma-invincible in my trinity, but it is a stupidly game-breaking ability).

 

Snow globe got the bat, and so will blessing, by the time the game leaves beta, there won't be any way to sit in front of wave 200 enemies at point blank range indefinitely.

 

There are other tests for a player.  Try soloing a level 36 nightmare alert against grineer and rolling energy vampire, and see how well you do with your brakk.