Don't Forget The Brakk, De ;)

[Guest Shibboleet]

I ran 700 Gradivus invasions and I think it does need to be adjusted down. Right now the only ammo viable secondary for late game that does high dps is the Brakk.

I worded this wrong. It's not the only ammo viable, but it's currently the best (not only) at being ammo viable for late game because of the damage that it deals. Was rushing to post that last message because of distractions =x.

 

Right now elemental mod cards need to be toned down a bit, which is making guns do too much damage imo.

Edited February 2, 2014 by Shibboleet

[Voidflow]

Dont be so foolish.

Fact is Brakk is broken as hell.

The numbers from dpsframe.com were done with common build (expel, 3 elements and ice storm) you will lose some damage but adapting to each faction here and there maybe, but the same issue for detron.

Endless game mode is a bad excuse. It doesnt matter how OP your gun is, you will reach satturation of kill power anyway, because it is endless for a reason !

If you fail earlier or later nobody care ...

There is no reason to strive for more OP guns and breaking this way the whole game.

- Damage fall off should be reduced drastically

- Base damage should be decreased, allowing less DPS burst and damage per shot to Detron level

- Spread should be adjusted respectively

It will happen anyway in one eay or another...

Scott mentioned in livestream that even after nerf it is still strongest weapon at close range. That means he is aware of Brakk is nowhere on pair with Bronco Prime ...

Edited February 2, 2014 by Voidflow

[Pazgabear]

 

Nerf the mods, don't touch the Brakk

[Namacyst]

 

Nerf the mods, don't touch the Brakk

Which translates to "Nerf every other gun".

[Davoodoo]

Well compared to even top dps from normal shotguns, Boar Prime with 17-18k dps depending on build brakk is simply too good. Buffing detron doesnt fix problem but enlarge it even more. 

If you think that nerfing obviously op weapon is ruining fun for you only proves how spoiled you are.

 

My ideas to nerf it. Increase spread, lower dmg by a bit, reduce falloff, increase reload time to 3s.

Edited February 2, 2014 by Davoodoo

[Pazgabear]

Decrease pellet count to 7, that's all you need to do

[Derethevil]

I have the gun myself and i am not butthurt, not raging or any other negative trait you want to put on my sleve. This thread is about the numbers purely.. even if they may be a bit off.. but when there is a range of 15k i don't think a bit off matters much.

 

I just wanted to give a comparison because most weapons do similar DPS in their category.. the only gun that sticks out by far is the Brakk.

 

I agree and said it before that it does not matter if the guns kill the mob... when you one-shot it does not matter if you did 5k or 50k ... Brakk just seems so much off on paper.

 

If you like to use it because it's strong.. go ahead, it's okay.. but please don't blame other people for pointing out that there may be a bit of imbalance at play here.

Its more like: I wanted to know why you really want that Brakk nerfed. 

If you have it its fine. If you use it, its fine. If you dont use it, its fine. If you hate it, its fine. If you just want to see it getting nerfed, its not fine at all.

 

You said it wouldnt matter if you kill an enemy with one shot from the Brakk or one shot from the Soma. But you just want to see the Brakk nerfed. Where is the logic behind that? 

No logic at all, i tell you.

 

I like the Brakk. But im not always using that gun. Im just having it as my sidearm, if i get into real trouble. Nerfing it wouldnt do DE or the player a favor. 

 

It already got nerfed. Some dont like it anymore. (Somehow i can understand them), but Brakk is still a good weapon. So why do you want it to see get nerfed again?

 

Give me a good and logical reason for it. And not just because you want to see even numbers for all weapons. Thats stupid.

 

Edit:

To clarifiy that a bit more.

Im asking you if you have a problem with players using a weapon that is viable past Wave 100, etc.?

Somewhere there has to be a weapon that is able to handle such enemies.

If it's the Brakk that is able to do that, why is it such a big problem for you. 

Maybe they should add some weapons that are obtainable, that are similiar to the Brakk, so they can actually have that feeling to.

 

Maybe make those weapon up for mastery 10 or higher.

 

But please. Just dont nerf something, because you dont like to see such people. If they having fun, playing like this, then it shouldnt bother you, since you said you dont begrudge those.

Edited February 2, 2014 by Derethevil

[Davoodoo]

Its more like: I wanted to know why you really want that Brakk nerfed. 

If you have it its fine. If you use it, its fine. If you dont use it, its fine. If you hate it, its fine. If you just want to see it getting nerfed, its not fine at all.

 

You said it wouldnt matter if you kill an enemy with one shot from the Brakk or one shot from the Soma. But you just want to see the Brakk nerfed. Where is the logic behind that? 

No logic at all, i tell you.

 

Either theres no logic to having different weapons when there is stronger one lacking disadvantages of others. Even if they nerfed range on brakk it still beats any shotgun in game while still having extremely short reload and low spread. Detron isnt hitscan, Boar Prime has relatively small clip and long reload. Strun wraith lacks rate of fire and spread is pretty high, Brakk no downsides at all.

Thats at least 1 reason to balance it.

[Derethevil]

Either theres no logic to having different weapons when there is stronger one lacking disadvantages of others. Even if they nerfed range on brakk it still beats any shotgun in game while still having extremely short reload and low spread. Detron isnt hitscan, Boar Prime has relatively small clip and long reload. Strun wraith lacks rate of fire and spread is pretty high, Brakk no downsides at all.

Thats at least 1 reason to balance it.

And taking that weapon away from players, who like to go to the limits with that weapon. If such enemies wouldnt exist, i would be able to agree with your opinion.

[Davoodoo]

And taking that weapon away from players, who like to go to the limits with that weapon. If such enemies wouldnt exist, i would be able to agree with your opinion.

Endless missions cant be completed so about what are you talking now?? if you cant beat something with highest dps gun then maybe you shouldnt even be doing it, Even if you get 100000000k dps weapon you will eventually hit a wall on endless missions with enemies haviing 218403894208420984208420490284204hp and 99.999999999999999999999999999999999% dmg reduction oneshotting you. If you look at endless missions only then you can buff everything to stupidly high dps and its fine, if you look at completable content then 30k dps shotgun is gamebreaking and makes it too easy while making all other shotguns not worth using.

 

Its same as sunwell during tbc on wow. You needed tons of warlocks and shamans. Your guild had more than 3 mages?? Well some wont be able to raid cause we need extra shamans. Hyjal without paladin tank?? Not possible. 

 

Limiting player choice isnt great idea. Every weapon in game is enough to beat current endgame. You dont need 30k for anything yet you speak like its necessity to do anything. Make all weapons equally worth using instead of having shotgun which deals more dmg than anything else.

[Derethevil]

Endless missions cant be completed so about what are you talking now?? if you cant beat something with highest dps gun then maybe you shouldnt even be doing it, Even if you get 100000000k dps weapon you will eventually hit a wall on endless missions with enemies haviing 218403894208420984208420490284204hp and 99.999999999999999999999999999999999% dmg reduction oneshotting you. If you look at endless missions only then you can buff everything to stupidly high dps and its fine, if you look at completable content then 30k dps shotgun is gamebreaking and makes it too easy while making all other shotguns not worth using.

 

Its same as sunwell during tbc on wow. You needed tons of warlocks and shamans. Your guild had more than 3 mages?? Well some wont be able to raid cause we need extra shamans. Hyjal without paladin tank?? Not possible. 

 

Limiting player choice isnt great idea. Every weapon in game is enough to beat current endgame. You dont need 30k for anything yet you speak like its necessity to do anything. Make all weapons equally worth using instead of having shotgun which deals more dmg than anything else.

And now you taking it in a completely different way, as i said.

I told you some people want to test how far they can go with a weapon. Brakk is one of those weapons, who is capable to kill some more advanced enemies.

I never talked about "finishing" an endless defense mission. It already says endless. 

You are talking about a endgame, which just dont exist. You are making your own "endgame". If people want to play towards such high enemies and talking about endgame, its their endgame. 

So whats your point taking the weapons they're using away? Thats what i asked you and you didnt answer me. 

 

And you like to make comparsions like WoW.

If there is a player that already owns high end gear and hit the levelcap and now is killing some level 10 units.. Are you offended by that because he is able to kill them with ease, are you jealous, because of his gear, or are simply talking about OP stuff that should get nerfed?

Thats completely the same with Brakk. You might just aint able to see this crucial point.

[Namacyst]

Its more like: I wanted to know why you really want that Brakk nerfed. 

If you have it its fine. If you use it, its fine. If you dont use it, its fine. If you hate it, its fine. If you just want to see it getting nerfed, its not fine at all.

 

You said it wouldnt matter if you kill an enemy with one shot from the Brakk or one shot from the Soma. But you just want to see the Brakk nerfed. Where is the logic behind that? 

No logic at all, i tell you.

 

I like the Brakk. But im not always using that gun. Im just having it as my sidearm, if i get into real trouble. Nerfing it wouldnt do DE or the player a favor. 

 

It already got nerfed. Some dont like it anymore. (Somehow i can understand them), but Brakk is still a good weapon. So why do you want it to see get nerfed again?

 

Give me a good and logical reason for it. And not just because you want to see even numbers for all weapons. Thats stupid.

 

Edit:

To clarifiy that a bit more.

Im asking you if you have a problem with players using a weapon that is viable past Wave 100, etc.?

Somewhere there has to be a weapon that is able to handle such enemies.

If it's the Brakk that is able to do that, why is it such a big problem for you. 

Maybe they should add some weapons that are obtainable, that are similiar to the Brakk, so they can actually have that feeling to.

 

Maybe make those weapon up for mastery 10 or higher.

 

But please. Just dont nerf something, because you dont like to see such people. If they having fun, playing like this, then it shouldnt bother you, since you said you dont begrudge those.

 

Answer:

 

I have the gun myself and i am not butthurt, not raging or any other negative trait you want to put on my sleve. This thread is about the numbers purely.. even if they may be a bit off.. but when there is a range of 15k i don't think a bit off matters much.

 

I just wanted to give a comparison because most weapons do similar DPS in their category.. the only gun that sticks out by far is the Brakk.

 

I agree and said it before that it does not matter if the guns kill the mob... when you one-shot it does not matter if you did 5k or 50k ... Brakk just seems so much off on paper.

 

If you like to use it because it's strong.. go ahead, it's okay.. but please don't blame other people for pointing out that there may be a bit of imbalance at play here.

If you think something is stupid does not mean it is.

Edited February 2, 2014 by Namacyst

[ReptileZA]

Its more like: I wanted to know why you really want that Brakk nerfed. 

If you have it its fine. If you use it, its fine. If you dont use it, its fine. If you hate it, its fine. If you just want to see it getting nerfed, its not fine at all.

 

You said it wouldnt matter if you kill an enemy with one shot from the Brakk or one shot from the Soma. But you just want to see the Brakk nerfed. Where is the logic behind that? 

No logic at all, i tell you.

 

I like the Brakk. But im not always using that gun. Im just having it as my sidearm, if i get into real trouble. Nerfing it wouldnt do DE or the player a favor. 

 

It already got nerfed. Some dont like it anymore. (Somehow i can understand them), but Brakk is still a good weapon. So why do you want it to see get nerfed again?

 

Give me a good and logical reason for it. And not just because you want to see even numbers for all weapons. Thats stupid.

 

Edit:

To clarifiy that a bit more.

Im asking you if you have a problem with players using a weapon that is viable past Wave 100, etc.?

Somewhere there has to be a weapon that is able to handle such enemies.

If it's the Brakk that is able to do that, why is it such a big problem for you. 

Maybe they should add some weapons that are obtainable, that are similiar to the Brakk, so they can actually have that feeling to.

 

Maybe make those weapon up for mastery 10 or higher.

 

But please. Just dont nerf something, because you dont like to see such people. If they having fun, playing like this, then it shouldnt bother you, since you said you dont begrudge those.

 

I just love the fact that you are stating ''IT GOT NERFED!!!one!!!one!!!!''. But the fact of the matter is, its to powerful when compared to other weapons. Its got more than twice the dps of the bronco prime and other ''end game'' weapons which is not cool at all.

P.S Your so called nerf was so small except for the damage falloff (ITS A SHOTGUN FFS NOT A SNIPER) it doenst even deserve to be called a nerf, a tweak if you must.

Edited February 2, 2014 by ReptileZA

[HAYABU5A]

the range nerf already regulates brakks damage down, its balanced now as a close range hand-shotcannon

 

the numbers from dpsframe are not accurate to real gameplay anyways 

[Davoodoo]

And now you taking it in a completely different way, as i said.

I told you some people want to test how far they can go with a weapon. Brakk is one of those weapons, who is capable to kill some more advanced enemies.

I never talked about "finishing" an endless defense mission. It already says endless. 

You are talking about a endgame, which just dont exist. You are making your own "endgame". If people want to play towards such high enemies and talking about endgame, its their endgame. 

So whats your point taking the weapons they're using away? Thats what i asked you and you didnt answer me. 

 

And you like to make comparsions like WoW.

If there is a player that already owns high end gear and hit the levelcap and now is killing some level 10 units.. Are you offended by that because he is able to kill them with ease, are you jealous, because of his gear, or are simply talking about OP stuff that should get nerfed?

Thats completely the same with Brakk. You might just aint able to see this crucial point.

Endgame means highest not impossible content in that case. Heroic Raids/Raids in general/arenas in wow. Ender dragon/wither minecraft. Diamond/Challenger/lcs lol.

Its ok to have op weapons cause they serve testing purposes on endless content. Following that logic no matter how op such weapon will be it will just serve testing purposes on endless missions. My point still stands here.

 

As for you example with wow. If you had massively overgeared dps in your group he was taking aggro from tank nearly instantly leading to wipes and making it harder for tank and heals than it should really be, leading to frustration. Sure here it doesnt lead to wipes, but he lowers gains of everyone in the group, frustrating ppl and eventually forcing them to use braak or stop giving a f*** about dps or exp. Yeah sure nothing is bad about wanting to have high dps in wow, but if someone tells me that i need to reroll to warlock to get such dps im pissed about it and im getting even more pissed when i wont be taken into group when im not warlock cause my dps will suck. As long as its choice its fine. Only 30k weapon in game brakk reduces choice, soma is gamebreaking too, synapse has enough drawbacks, supra has enough drawbacks, burston prime has enough drawbacks too, rest more typical weapons sits below 10k dps but they still have their use, most pistols are between 10-15k dps and they still do fine yet only brakk(as previously acrid) go above it having no disadvantages in their categories. Thats limiting choice.

[ReptileZA]

well the other primary shotties are also ''close range cannons'' but i dont see any of the primary shotties doing anything near the Brakk's unholy damage close up.

[Derethevil]

 

I just love the fact that you are stating ''IT GOT NERFED!!!one!!!one!!!!''. But the fact of the matter is, its to powerful when compared to other weapons. Its got more than twice the dps of the bronco prime and other ''end game'' weapons which is not cool at all.

P.S Your so called nerf was so small except for the damage falloff (ITS A SHOTGUN FFS NOT A SNIPER) it doenst even deserve to be called a nerf, a tweak if you must.

Yeah your example is exactly how i rubbed it into all of your faces. 

 

/sarcasmoff

I just mentioned it. Some see it as a nerf. Some see it as a tweak. Doesnt matter how you call it, it "balanced" Brakk in case of how weapons in DE should work.

 

We could discuss why there was the need for a damage dropoff for shotguns, but let's just say... i still dont see many sniperrifle users in games.

 

 

Endgame means highest not impossible content in that case. Heroic Raids/Raids in general/arenas in wow. Ender dragon/wither minecraft. Diamond/Challenger/lcs lol.

Its ok to have op weapons cause they serve testing purposes on endless content. Following that logic no matter how op such weapon will be it will just serve testing purposes on endless missions. My point still stands here.

 

As for you example with wow. If you had massively overgeared dps in your group he was taking aggro from tank nearly instantly leading to wipes and making it harder for tank and heals than it should really be, leading to frustration. Sure here it doesnt lead to wipes, but he lowers gains of everyone in the group, frustrating ppl and eventually forcing them to use braak or stop giving a f*** about dps or exp. Yeah sure nothing is bad about wanting to have high dps in wow, but if someone tells me that i need to reroll to warlock to get such dps im &!$$ed about it and im getting even more &!$$ed when i wont be taken into group when im not warlock cause my dps will suck. As long as its choice its fine. Only 30k weapon in game brakk reduces choice, soma is gamebreaking too, synapse has enough drawbacks, supra has enough drawbacks, burston prime has enough drawbacks too, rest more typical weapons sits below 10k dps but they still have their use, most pistols are between 10-15k dps and they still do fine yet only brakk(as previously acrid) go above it having no disadvantages in their categories. Thats limiting choice.

 

And ive stated some may want to use the Brakk for that purpose, because that weapon is one of the few ones, who are actually viable at that point. I simply asked you, why you want to take that weapon away from those peeps, as Namacyst may think you already answered, which you simply dont.

 

And limited choice. There are only a few weapons that actually good at that point we are talking about. 

 

I already said. Wouldnt it be better to have more guns for that purpose, as just simply nerf those few weapons, who are available?

It seems like your answer is no.

 

Im saying it all the time:

Just because the worlds most beautiful person on Earth has a horrible accident and is defaced, the most ugliest person still isnt able to win that contest.

 

I know its easier to nerf one weapon, just to make sure some people cant argue about it, how "OP" it would be.

But its not the solution.

 

Im talking about fighting the core problem.

 

Tackle the problem at its source.

 

Fighting the causes, not just aid some symptoms.

 

 

 

You should be able to understand this. At the very least i hope so.

Edited February 2, 2014 by Derethevil

[crisisavatar]

I love how people bring up that they did 100 runs for an "unknown" weapon as if they weren't going to do that for every event regardless of reward. 
 

[Guest Shibboleet]

Its more like: I wanted to know why you really want that Brakk nerfed. 

If you have it its fine. If you use it, its fine. If you dont use it, its fine. If you hate it, its fine. If you just want to see it getting nerfed, its not fine at all.

 

You said it wouldnt matter if you kill an enemy with one shot from the Brakk or one shot from the Soma. But you just want to see the Brakk nerfed. Where is the logic behind that? 

No logic at all, i tell you.

 

I like the Brakk. But im not always using that gun. Im just having it as my sidearm, if i get into real trouble. Nerfing it wouldnt do DE or the player a favor. 

 

It already got nerfed. Some dont like it anymore. (Somehow i can understand them), but Brakk is still a good weapon. So why do you want it to see get nerfed again?

 

Give me a good and logical reason for it. And not just because you want to see even numbers for all weapons. Thats stupid.

 

Edit:

To clarifiy that a bit more.

Im asking you if you have a problem with players using a weapon that is viable past Wave 100, etc.?

Somewhere there has to be a weapon that is able to handle such enemies.

If it's the Brakk that is able to do that, why is it such a big problem for you. 

Maybe they should add some weapons that are obtainable, that are similiar to the Brakk, so they can actually have that feeling to.

 

Maybe make those weapon up for mastery 10 or higher.

 

But please. Just dont nerf something, because you dont like to see such people. If they having fun, playing like this, then it shouldnt bother you, since you said you dont begrudge those.

A lot of weapons are viable past wave 100, but the Brakk makes it too easy compared to the rest. Having fun and 'one shotting' everything does not translate to fun for a late game player, it's the reason why we play to such high levels to stop one shotting in the first place.

[Davoodoo]

 

And ive stated some may want to use the Brakk for that purpose, because that weapon is one of the few ones, who are actually viable at that point. I simply asked you, why you want to take that weapon away from those peeps, as Namacyst may think you already answered, which you simply dont.

 

And limited choice. There are only a few weapons that actually good at that point we are talking about. 

 

I already said. Wouldnt it be better to have more guns for that purpose, as just simply nerf those few weapons, who are available?

It seems like your answer is no.

 

Im saying it all the time:

Just because the worlds most beautiful person on Earth has a horrible accident and is defaced, the most ugliest person still isnt able to win that contest.

 

I know its easier to nerf one weapon, just to make sure some people cant argue about it, how "OP" it would be.

But its not the solution.

 

Im talking about fighting the core problem.

 

Tackle the problem at its source.

 

Fighting the causes, not just aid some symptoms.

 

 

 

You should be able to understand this. At the very least i hope so.

 

That purpose itself doesnt justify having weapon which is clearly stronger than all other.

 

Well everything above 2k dmg is able to clear t3 def easily and these are all weapons in game. Everything above 5k can make it too easy to clear it. 

Above that there is only endless content which was never meant to be played. At 1st devs never thought that anyone will get past wave 50 and that was u7 before dmg tweaks, maxed mods, corrupted mods and even nightmare mods, there was no clantech or forma and ppl were able to kill lvl 1000 enemies even with scaling armor on everything. Dont start with only brakk soma and synapse being able to compete with lvl 500+ enemies cause ive done that with 0 forma braton months ago. Even then i cant imagine anyone going past wave 20 or 20 mins on survival cause effort will be greater than reward for it.

Now after so many updates thinking changed in most logical way of all, most dps=most viable, following that brakk is no brainer when you are fighting enemies you shouldnt even see in game and thats limiting choice. You can choose between being a liability to team or sticking with weapon with highest dps, more or less its illusion of choice.

30k dps is not needed for anything, its 6 times as much as you will ever need to trivialize most content. Adjust it to that line instead of making completable content even easier than it already is.

If you still want to do survivals and defenses past 20 you should do it for personal achievement, you wont need anything better cause you can prove that you can do it without any additional help. Having weapons specially designed for it will be nothing more than cheating. Sure with help of steroids you will probably be able to beat athletes, but it isnt good idea to give steroids to every athlete to put them on same ground.

 

Solution imo would be simple, remove endless missions all together. If content cant completed then you shouldnt encourage ppl to try to beat it. Some simply cant understand that game shouldnt be balanced around such idea.

If you buy a toy gun for a kid and it starts shooting ppl, you should take this toy from your kid and lecture him about it instead of blaming manufacturer or tv for encouraging kids to shoot ppl.

[Zephyric_Reaper]

ITT: "Don't nerf my toy" 

 

What warframe should do is not nerf a single weapon in one patch, no, it should take its time and REBALANCE all weapons. 

If they want a tier system, then fine, but all weapons should have advantages and draw backs. Not be reskins of each other with obviously mroe dps/versatility/efficiency than others (somavsbratonp for example.)

 

I do agree though that brakk is quite off the chart in numbers, not like it matters with current content/mods/set ups. But when "end game" is introduced it'll probably be game breaking. 

[WhisperByte]

What warframe should do is not nerf a single weapon in one patch, no, it should take its time and REBALANCE all weapons. 

This +infinity

[HillsAndTheSea]

ITT: "Don't nerf my toy" 

 

What warframe should do is not nerf a single weapon in one patch, no, it should take its time and REBALANCE all weapons. 

If they want a tier system, then fine, but all weapons should have advantages and draw backs. Not be reskins of each other with obviously mroe dps/versatility/efficiency than others (somavsbratonp for example.)

 

 

you are aware that its possible to rebalance all the weapons by nerfing the most obvious outlier(s) right?

 

if you take a test with 100 questions and get two of them wrong? would you first review all the questions or only the ones you didnt get right?

[Guest Shibboleet]

you are aware that its possible to rebalance all the weapons by nerfing the most obvious outlier(s) right?

 

if you take a test with 100 questions and get two of them wrong? would you first review all the questions or only the ones you didnt get right?

And how do we know that the 98 other weapons are balanced correctly?

[KoshLovesYou]

The Brakk will never, ever be seen again. Ever. That's why it's so overpowered. Nobody else can get it. One time deal, baby. Maybe in another year it'll drop in three parts from a new Grineer Stalker-style baddy. But don't count on it.

As it is now: No one can get the Brakk. Not anymore. Nobody. Just the big sweaty kids.

You need to understand that before making threads like this.