Suggestion: The Silent Sidearm Weapon, The Energy Kunai

[HadronVictorioso]

Though I think the pinning to walls is quite overused. I'd imagine an enemy hit with a set of these projectiles just entering some sort of pain animation before sinking to the ground.

Well, how about the animation used in the Warframe Open Beta Launch trailer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gx5RDaGVkZE) for when the Loki stabs the two Grineer marines in the neck with the fang at 0:31 to 0:38?

I didn't able to post the picture,but hopefully a link would do....

http://en.wikipedia....Black_Widow.jpg

See those tingys where she strapped on her wrists?That's what we could use for firing Energy Senbons.

Yes, those are what I imagined when I talked about the wrist-things, except for a crucial difference: I suggested the wrist things being only for forming the kunai/senbons, and then your character would throw them.

[OzarkTempses]

Other than a kunai, you could have a chakram. These are rad, or a "Wing-stick" like in Rage...

[R4YCH40S]

http://images2.wikia...Needle_Shot.JPG

though personally I prefer throwing them in a wide sweeping arm motion.

Ash would gladly stick a shuriken on your head for that suggestion I can 1000% gurantee. ;p

PS:I think it's quite illogical for a needle to stick to walls....they're too small and too fragile to be capable of impaling enemies to walls.

Edited March 24, 2013 by R4YCH40S

[HadronVictorioso]

Other than a kunai, you could have a chakram. These are rad, or a "Wing-stick" like in Rage...

No thanks.

[Venarge]

Other than a kunai, you could have a chakram. These are rad, or a "Wing-stick" like in Rage...

Too big. The senbons are way smaller and easier to carry ^^

Well, how about the animation used in the Warframe Open Beta Launch trailer (

) for when the Loki stabs the two Grineer marines in the neck with the fang at 0:31 to 0:38?

Yes, those are what I imagined when I talked about the wrist-things, except for a crucial difference: I suggested the wrist things being only for forming the kunai/senbons, and then your character would throw them.

Yep. throwing would be the most badass thing in my opinion :D

[DalaiLlama]

Well, how about the animation used in the Warframe Open Beta Launch trailer (

) for when the Loki stabs the two Grineer marines in the neck with the fang at 0:31 to 0:38?

Yes, those are what I imagined when I talked about the wrist-things, except for a crucial difference: I suggested the wrist things being only for forming the kunai/senbons, and then your character would throw them.

I'm not sure about forming the needles, I suppose just carrying some sort of simple waist/leg pouch from which your frame would draw needles from, again an idea inspired by the rectangular shruriken pouch from the Naruto Universe. It doesn't hurt to low-tech sometimes.

Small Picture, but a picture nonetheless.

http://www.narutopedia.ru/w/images/3/3a/ShurikenHolster.jpg

And about the death animation, yeah I imagined a kill from the Senbons to perhaps stagger the enemy a step before simply slumping to the floor. Or something of that fashion.

Haha DE, here's hoping you see this idea.

[HadronVictorioso]

I'm not sure about forming the needles, I suppose just carrying some sort of simple waist/leg pouch from which your frame would draw needles from, again an idea inspired by the rectangular shruriken pouch from the Naruto Universe. It doesn't hurt to low-tech sometimes.

Small Picture, but a picture nonetheless.

http://www.narutoped...ikenHolster.jpg

Em... That begs the question: just how BIG do these pouches have to be to hold 100+ needles...?

[DalaiLlama]

Em... That begs the question: just how BIG do these pouches have to be to hold 100+ needles...?

Well, look at the magazine of a Furis. Its magazine is sizably small while holding 35 bullets.

http://images1.wikia...250px-Furis.png

Or the Gorgon, its magazine is not that big either from a reasonable standpoint. And as a rifle, it holds full sized rifle bullets. 100 bullets.

http://i.wikiwiki.jp...&src=Gorgon.png

The Paris. That quiver holds 75-so arrows.

Or in the case of this video, over 80.

Realism in terms of magazine size vs aesthetics has never been a concern for DE, and unless their animation department truly wants to create some algorithm that increases your gun's magazine size for every magazine increasing mod applied (that'll make for some pretty comical 3D designs), it should not be a matter of concern for players either.

Edited March 24, 2013 by DalaiLlama

[UnderYourBed]

Ninja magic.

[Venarge]

I dont really think that an accurate ammo holder is necessary. I mean where do you store the 500 bullets for your gorgon? O.o

A little pouch would be all to show the player that hes actually using this weapon :D Or what I would like more, The wrist thing ^^

Edited March 25, 2013 by Venarge

[CY13ERPUNK]

+1 stealth sidearm

i dont care what form

[Venarge]

+1 stealth sidearm

i dont care what form

Thx for your support Tenno :D

[OzarkTempses]

Why yes indeed, still waiting for a stealth sidearm.

And as for the question of sticking peoples into walls... Well, with some training, you can stick a card into an apple, or almost every fruit... So I don't believe steel-like needle punching through a wall would be too far-fetched... And of course, it depend on the size of the needle.

[HadronVictorioso]

Why yes indeed, still waiting for a stealth sidearm.

And as for the question of sticking peoples into walls... Well, with some training, you can stick a card into an apple, or almost every fruit... So I don't believe steel-like needle punching through a wall would be too far-fetched... And of course, it depend on the size of the needle.

The needle's size would basically be about 2-3 acupuncture needles bundled together.

[Venarge]

The needle's size would basically be about 2-3 acupuncture needles bundled together.

The bullets from the bolto are a good benchmark in my opinion. Or do you think thats too huge?

[DalaiLlama]

The bullets from the bolto are a good benchmark in my opinion. Or do you think thats too huge?

Still probably too large. I hate to keep refencing Naruto, but look at how large their senbons are. I'd propose them to be a more accurate benchmark, veryvthin, slightly longer than one's index finger, etc.

[Wellwisher]

This needs to happen. Now.

And i will keep bumping this thread until it happens even if it gets me banned.

Edited March 25, 2013 by Wellwisher

[Venarge]

Still probably too large. I hate to keep refencing Naruto, but look at how large their senbons are. I'd propose them to be a more accurate benchmark, veryvthin, slightly longer than one's index finger, etc.

referencing Naruto isnt my thing either :D But I think you are right about that ^^

[Wellwisher]

Also an idea i just had (don't know if this was mentioned before): As someone said, have them use energy instead of ammo and instead of swappen to them when you press F, make the Warframe throw them directly when F is pressed.

Yes, this would "steal" Ash's gimmick, but then the shurikens are in need of a rework anyways. Also just imagining shoots a Grineer in the head with the Paris, and then pinning another one to the wall by tossing an Energy Senbon in his face is just too awesome.

This would also give a bit of nice diversity to the weapon system.

Edited March 25, 2013 by Wellwisher

[Venarge]

Also an idea i just had (don't know if this was mentioned before): As someone said, have them use energy instead of ammo and instead of swappen to them when you press F, make the Warframe throw them directly when F is pressed.

Yes, this would "steal" Ash's gimmick, but then the shurikens are in need of a rework anyways. Also just imagining shoots a Grineer in the head with the Paris, and then pinning another one to the wall by tossing an Energy Senbon in his face is just too awesome.

This would also give a bit of nice diversity to the weapon system.

The idea of insta throwing by pressing F sounds interesting, but on the other hand, you always would waste one senbon for simply changing the weapon ;)

But thx for your support mate =)

[Wellwisher]

The idea of insta throwing by pressing F sounds interesting, but on the other hand, you always would waste one senbon for simply changing the weapon ;)

But thx for your support mate =)

Well you wouldnt actually change the weapon, you would just throw one by pressing F, while remaining with your main Weapon equiped. It would pretty much work like Ash's shuriken instead of how other sidearms work. Hence the replacement of ammo with Energy as a resource.

[Venarge]

Well you wouldnt actually change the weapon, you would just throw one by pressing F, while remaining with your main Weapon equiped. It would pretty much work like Ash's shuriken instead of how other sidearms work. Hence the replacement of ammo with Energy as a resource.

OH xD Now I understand what you mean :D Yeah that would actually work pretty well :3

[DalaiLlama]

Not too sure about that one button throw thing... Assuming it would use ammunition, we'd need some sort of extra UI counter just to keep track of how many we have left since we can't physically switch to it as a separate weapon. Of course, the devs could make that happen. The devs could make their own host of mini weapons and tools like weapons, mines, alarms, or traps, instantly throwable by a single button. But as a standalone weapon, I don't think the senbon would work well by throwing a single button. Maybe even ninja tools powered by energy. Though I don't think that would be a good idea.

As for charging vs instant throw... not sure what to think. A charging animation could be a warframe with needles between his fingers arcing his right arm to the left, for example, before throwing. It would make sense, but... in that case I think we would need more stealth primary weapons, as the only one available at the moment, the Paris, already requires charging per shot.

And I'd like to say again that IMO pinning enemies to the walls with little needles as thick as half the width of a #2 pencil and slightly longer than one's index finger is highly unrealistic and would not suit a stealth weapon. Pinning enemies to the walls in front of fellow enemies is hardly stealthy at all, and seems to abandon logic for the sheer sake of flashiness. Much as suggested earlier in the post, me and a few others supported a death by senbon animation to be a simple small recoil before slumping to the floor without much commotion. That would better suit a stealth weapon, my friends.

EDIT: I'm also unsure as to the use of energy as ammo. The mechanic sounds like it would take away from the ability system which relies completely on energy reserves as energy capacity has been rendered small enough by Update 7 to decrease mean ability use. The devs themselves said that a major goal for them was to flesh out this ability system as it set them apart from many other shooters/competitors. Also, the addition of one weapon that worked by a new mechanic (draining energy) is... well almost always an invitation for more weapons to use the same mechanic to appease players who like the mechanic but have different playstyles. Result, continued jeopardization of Warframe's defining factor and another step away from its Ninja roots towards a Tactical Shooter.

Edited March 26, 2013 by DalaiLlama

[Venarge]

Not too sure about that one button throw thing... Assuming it would use ammunition, we'd need some sort of extra UI counter just to keep track of how many we have left since we can't physically switch to it as a separate weapon. Of course, the devs could make that happen. The devs could make their own host of mini weapons and tools like weapons, mines, alarms, or traps, instantly throwable by a single button. But as a standalone weapon, I don't think the senbon would work well by throwing a single button. Maybe even ninja tools powered by energy. Though I don't think that would be a good idea.

As for charging vs instant throw... not sure what to think. A charging animation could be a warframe with needles between his fingers arcing his right arm to the left, for example, before throwing. It would make sense, but... in that case I think we would need more stealth primary weapons, as the only one available at the moment, the Paris, already requires charging per shot.

And I'd like to say again that IMO pinning enemies to the walls with little needles as thick as half the width of a #2 pencil and slightly longer than one's index finger is highly unrealistic and would not suit a stealth weapon. Pinning enemies to the walls in front of fellow enemies is hardly stealthy at all, and seems to abandon logic for the sheer sake of flashiness. Much as suggested earlier in the post, me and a few others supported a death by senbon animation to be a simple small recoil before slumping to the floor without much commotion. That would better suit a stealth weapon, my friends.

EDIT: I'm also unsure as to the use of energy as ammo. The mechanic sounds like it would take away from the ability system which relies completely on energy reserves as energy capacity has been rendered small enough by Update 7 to decrease mean ability use. The devs themselves said that a major goal for them was to flesh out this ability system as it set them apart from many other shooters/competitors. Also, the addition of one weapon that worked by a new mechanic (draining energy) is... well almost always an invitation for more weapons to use the same mechanic to appease players who like the mechanic but have different playstyles. Result, continued jeopardization of Warframe's defining factor and another step away from its Ninja roots towards a Tactical Shooter.

You mentioned some interesting points ^^

Ui counter would be necessary of course. Otherwise people would loose the view for their ammo...

The idea for more ninja tools is pretty good. Would like to see stuff like that.

The chargin animation you mentioned would be cool. Hmm more primary stealth weapons would be good, but which one. It should be something that suits the ninja feeling.

The "pinning enemies to walls" was only my first idea cause my main reason for this weapon was the bow ^^ You might be right about pinning enemies with small senbons would be too much :D

Your right about the energy thing. It would bring some chaos with it and some would be a bit frustrated after throwing 20 senbons and being out of energy after that^^ I still think the idea could be good, if people would realize the pros and cons of that weapon ^^

Edited March 26, 2013 by Venarge

[R4YCH40S]

You might be right about pinning enemies with small senbons would be too much :D

No offence;but even with energy-produced senbons;it'll have to depend the density of the mass of energy that forms it so that it can impale victims to walls.Then there's the velocity bla...bla...

Anyway,I'd like not to see energy sappin' senbons.

I dont mind if you guys wanna toss it similiar to Ash gimmick,but costing a minimal energy cost per shot?Everyone would be similiar to Ash then....

That'll jeopardize Ash badly XD

UNLESS..

They make Ash throw a flurry of shurikens,or they make the shuriken split into smaller shurikens after hitting the initial target.

Still I think a senbon wrist-launcher would be okay...

BTW,those aside,since senbon(or needles)is used in acupunture,make it as:

A throw to the arm briefly disarms the marine/crewmen's gunfire

Or for Infested,makes their attack rate stops briefly

A throw to leg pins victims down temporary

A hit to stomach would staggers it momentarily

HEADSHOT?Insta KO or super lethal damage :D

Anyway,Im cool for a stealthy sidearm.

Edited March 26, 2013 by R4YCH40S