Weapons And Their Availability To New Players

[FableTale]

Well I was actually going to make a new thread about something similar about helping new players today so here I go.

 

I believe that credits AND mods should be rewarded after completing a mission. I'm talking about basic mods being awarded after completing missions to give  in Mercury such as:

 

Terminus - serration, hornet strike, Killing blow and Pressure point (Basic damage mods)
M prime - Hellfire
Caloris - Stormbringer
Elion - cryo rounds
Lares - infected clip
Tolstoj - Split barrel
Apollodorus - Fury,  Reflex coil

 

This is just an example but players would be able to progress and customize their equipment early and have choices.

[Tsukinoki]

@FableTale
Anything that increases options that new players have is a good thing.
Though I would have to take it up then because in all my few hundred hours playing WF I have yet to see Split Chamber actually drop for me.

Right now there is nothing early game to get new players invested into the game with.  And Earth is such a difficulty wall that it will lose a lot of players as they have no investment.
If DE would make it possible to make 1 of each of the main weapon types (LMG, SMG, Sniper, Bow, etc.) and give out the 'needed' mods by the end of venus I think that a lot of players would be much more invested in the game and would be much more likely to stick around.

[MoyuTheTrinity]

@MoyuTheMedic

And while the Lex is a decent weapon, its definitely not for everyone.

Not everyone enjoys using a slower sniper pistol, they may instead prefer something like the Sicarus to use and play around with. And that's the real point: give new players something to become invested in this game with. Since the majority of focus in this game is on the guns we should give new players the ability to easily try out and craft at least one weapon from every major weapon class.

That way a new player will be able to try a shotgun easily (75K is a bit steep for new players), or try a bow, or a LMG or a rifle like the Latron, or even a machine pistol. Make those weapons dirt cheap and fast to make and I think that new players will stick around a lot more because they suddenly have a lot more options.

They can go and say "I like using snipers...hey I can build one right away!" and start having fun using snipers, or they can go "I want to use machine pistols and a burst rifle" and they can make it.

They dont have to be the best of weapons, but giving them variety and easy access to weapons that will at least do something on Earth is very important for keeping players invested in this game and not leaving.

Yeah me and my gunkata with the Lex and melee weapon is not really the gameplay everyone wants I understand

It would be nice for there to be 1 of every type of gun that isnt special within level 0-1

Laser rifle laser pistol

lmg hmg

auto rifle semi auto rifle

burst rifle burst pistol

ect ect ect...

It would hitoff with more gun enthusiests I guess

[Tsukinoki]

@MoyuTheMedic

Exactly.

The more variety a player has, the more options they have to try out and see whether they like it or not the more invested they are going to get. As I said in the OP they have a very limited selection of weapon types which definitely wont appeal to everyone, and that is a failing on DEs part.

Hopefully this gets noticed by DE or a community mod...

[Amistyrja]

The Lex can carry you really far actually, but like people have mentioned before, it's not suited for everyone. It's still my best secondary though, and has been more of a primary weapon to me than any shotgun and rifle has.

[Calayne]

Coming from someone who absolutely adores weapons, I agree wholeheartedly with the direction this thread is headed. Personally, I think Lotus should be the one giving you Tenno weapons, though there's a lot of good points made regarding the fact that the next enemy is the Corpus, and Grineer have a huge....*cough* Impact... on the game. 

 

At the moment, we've probably got more than a hundred weapons in total. The pool of weapons that we can give out, or be made more readily available, to newbies will not put a dent on how many more weapons they can acquire.

 

Like Tsukinoki points out, you need to be invested before you start playing plat.

 

The fact that you cannot easily obtain the weapons and die of boredom (or Earth) is a cause for new players to simply drop out. I think the suggestion listed out here has been wonderful: Before and After Vor are huge landmarks in your life as a Tenno. You've just beat the first boss, and you are heading out of the Mercury system for the very first time.

 

In fact, I think each time you complete a system, it should be considered a breakthrough. Let people feel the sense of achievement with something tangible.

 

In this case, a nice, shiny weapon, or a good set of mods.

 

I recommend the MR0-MR1 weapons be completely reconsidered in terms of cost and material availability. And following that, MR2, MR3, and so on. This gives people a tangible feeling of where they're roughly supposed to be while playing, though this is hardly the most appropriate method. But still, what's the point of a MR0 weapon that's meant for you, but cannot be crafted? It's quite absurd.

 

I think 25k is a sweet spot, to be honest. Each run giving you about 2k, you run about 12 missions or so to get a new weapon. Fair enough. But this investment should be more liberal at the start, if only to suck in the new players in the sheer variety of weapons. There's really not much harm in letting weapons be more accessible in the start, because it will only allow more immersion. More weapons has always been a good thing, because it means more choices, more variety, more fun. Less weapons mean that people feel that they're being funnelled into Skanaville.

 

I seriously can't wait for the Vesper Relay. If the Market is a physical place, as it sounds like it should be, I sincerely hope they have a gun testing range. This will totally sell the new players. Nothing's worse than buying S#&$ you know nothing about. 

 

But until then...

 

I really think weapons have to begin to be sorted by Mastery Rank, and their material costs revised to something achievable by newbies. This will make new players not feel so lost.

Edited February 13, 2014 by Calayne

[Tsukinoki]

@Calayne

I agree whole-heartedly.

There definitely needs to be a redistribution of weapon mastery ranks across the board to fill it up.

There are gaps in the mastery table and a lot of weapons that could be easily shifted around to round it out.

25K is a pretty good place for offering some weapons at, and besides making some of the MR0-1 weapons have appropriate resources for their rank, I believe that they could also open up more weapons to just straight up buying them. Hek, they could even have weapons that you could by for 25-30K OR you could use the mats and a lower amount of credts, say 12-15K for buying the BP and building it, and a short wait.

And I do really agree that they need to further stratify the weapons resource requirements.

MR0-1 should be pre-Earth mats for the most part.

MR2-3 should be Earth and Mars, maybe Saturn.

MR4-5 should be Uranus Neptune...and etcetera

(NOTE: These are just examples and not to be taken literally)

And they just go out like that so that by the time you get up to a mastery rank you should have those locations unlocked and should be able to farm them for the right resources.

And I wouldn't be against extra rewards the first time you clear all nodes in a planet. It could allow them a way to hand out some of the rarer mods while still requiring people to work for them.

[Calayne]

@Calayne

I agree whole-heartedly.

There definitely needs to be a redistribution of weapon mastery ranks across the board to fill it up.

There are gaps in the mastery table and a lot of weapons that could be easily shifted around to round it out.

25K is a pretty good place for offering some weapons at, and besides making some of the MR0-1 weapons have appropriate resources for their rank, I believe that they could also open up more weapons to just straight up buying them. Hek, they could even have weapons that you could by for 25-30K OR you could use the mats and a lower amount of credts, say 12-15K for buying the BP and building it, and a short wait.

And I do really agree that they need to further stratify the weapons resource requirements.

MR0-1 should be pre-Earth mats for the most part.

MR2-3 should be Earth and Mars, maybe Saturn.

MR4-5 should be Uranus Neptune...and etcetera

(NOTE: These are just examples and not to be taken literally)

And they just go out like that so that by the time you get up to a mastery rank you should have those locations unlocked and should be able to farm them for the right resources.

And I wouldn't be against extra rewards the first time you clear all nodes in a planet. It could allow them a way to hand out some of the rarer mods while still requiring people to work for them.

 

Yup, that's the idea! And I like the way that sounds.

 

The point about being bought by straight-up creds is something I'd debate over, because in some sense, the crafting allows DE some space for allowing players not to chew through the material too quickly... But on the other hand, they're all beginners, and just affording those weapons is gonna be tough, to say nothing of mod fusions. I do like the idea of cheaper costs with materials, though. Makes it feel like a choice.

 

So perhaps it is for the better to make MR0 weapons creds only? Braton, Strun, Sicarus and Lex are part of those, though the Lex is currently at 40k. MR1, probably the Paris, Kunai, Latron and what-have-you shall be made available, to let the newbies try some of the more exotic, interesting weapons. This is probably when the crafting system can be introduced, since they may have amassed some wealth and be able to build Gear (Like Health and Ammo recovery) because goodness knows, if I had that stuff when I had my old Braton I would have died far, far less.

 

Stratification is definitely the way I'd go with weapons, considering you made a lot of very good points. Probably starting with Tenno weapons, and as you rank up, you get more Corpus, Grineer and Infested weaponry. Start with your own gear, and slowly make your way up. I think that makes some sense, logically.

 

(On the subject of "Required" mods, though... Makes me think we should retire Split Chamber and reconsider the damage system and enemies in general. Multishot just seems like one more mod takes away choice to add damage, is "Required" for late game, needs 15 ranks to equip, and is hidden behind another RNG wall. As if we don't have enough of that. Exponential power increase is relatively harder to plan for, methinks.)

[EastCoastOrigin]

At first, reading the first paragraph made me shake my head as I have done with a majority of threads created by the community, but after finishing the entire statement it began to seem more reasonable. I agree very much with changing the lower rank weapons to resources that can be acquired through Mercury and Venus. I will admit, I did just fine when I started this game. Solo'd all the way through the first three planets with no problems at all. BUT, that was roughly 8 months go. Fast forward in time, and the enemies are much stronger compared to when I first began. I will also add that the regular Braton (not MK-1) is a very average and decent gun at that, and only costs 25k credits to purchase. 25k credits? That's nothing. By the time you've completed all the nodes on both Mercury and Venus, you should have well over 25k (I believe I had roughly 50k credits after Venus, while still having 2-3 nodes to complete). That's enough to purchase the Braton AND Strun, without even having to worry about crafting and using up materials. All in all, I do agree with your argument, and it'd be nice to add a bit of leverage to starting players, but it truly is fine how it is, especially if you have a team, which I did not at first. And a small thanks for not being the typical thread complaining about how imperfect this game is, haha.

 

EDIT:

As I began thinking about it, something that puts a rather heavy burden on even end-game players is the cost of fusions. Not to mention how much that hurts new players. I think that would be the most appropriate fix for this game for EVERYONE. (Example: My gross credits is 8.2 million, but I sit around 200k at all times. Why? Fusions. And that includes selling extra mods I loot while farming cores). I believe that the cost of fusions should be around 40% of what they are now. (Example: If the fusion costs 1000, make it cost 400). At this rate, I believe that you would still be able to have the credits to afford getting those first couple ranks in redirection/serration while still being able to afford a decent second primary. That's all.. :)

Edited February 13, 2014 by EastCoastOrigin

[Tsukinoki]

@Calayne

I can definitely see making the MR0 weapons creds only and it makes sense:

Why wouldn't the Lotus (or whoever is supply us with gear) have a bunch of the low level and easy to acquire weaponry for sale at lower prices? And it doesn't need to be many weapons, just give them a few, just enough to get them hooked.

And as long as they have 1 weapon in each 'category' available to build/buy by the time they reach Earth I think they'll be in a good place.

That way they could try out all of the main weapon types and find which type appeals to them and their style of gameplay and just have a lot more fun. That way if they want to run around with a Vulkar and Furis they can without having to either spend plat or get carried through earth and jupiter/saturn for the mats needed to build it.

And with how they are putting Oxium into the game they could also use other methods like that to help statify and layout the weapon tables.

They could have some of the MR3-4 grineer weapons require special grineer only mats that start dropping on Saturn, or make a few market weapons require Oxium and have a player be able to get it easier in the later Corpus missions because the oxium drones spawn more often.

And I dont really want to de-rail this into talking abou tthe mods too much, thats a rabbit trail that doesn't need to be gone down through in this topic.

@EastCoastOrigin

Earth has been turned into a bit of a difficulty wall recently with the Eviscerators and Hellions being added to them and its causing new players quite a bit of trouble. Compound that with the general lack of things that they can buy/craft by that point and its not hard to see how they wouldn't be invested in the game and might just lose interest because of it.

I'm just trying to find a way that would allow new players to experience a lot more of warframe up front and become invested in the gameplay and stick around, maybe even turn into playing customers.

Playing through with my friends I kept on catching myself going "I wish I could skip this and go to Saturn so I could make a few of the cool weapons instead of being stuck with what I have..." and I doubt that I am alone in thinking that. Far too many of the weapons are locked away behind the difficulty spike of Earth (and if you get Taxi'd past it the immediate planets following are easier than Earth AND allow you to get cool weapons) and I think that new players really need more availability. Many F2P games operate by grabbing your attention with a seemingly wide range of starting options and then hitting you with the wait times or bottle necks later on, WF kinda has it backwards in that regard.

Edited February 13, 2014 by Tsukinoki

[Calayne]

At first, reading the first paragraph made me shake my head as I have done with a majority of threads created by the community, but after finishing the entire statement it began to seem more reasonable. I agree very much with changing the lower rank weapons to resources that can be acquired through Mercury and Venus. I will admit, I did just fine when I started this game. Solo'd all the way through the first three planets with no problems at all. BUT, that was roughly 8 months go. Fast forward in time, and the enemies are much stronger compared to when I first began. I will also add that the regular Braton (not MK-1) is a very average and decent gun at that, and only costs 25k credits to purchase. 25k credits? That's nothing. By the time you've completed all the nodes on both Mercury and Venus, you should have well over 25k (I believe I had roughly 50k credits after Venus, while still having 2-3 nodes to complete). That's enough to purchase the Braton AND Strun, without even having to worry about crafting and using up materials. All in all, I do agree with your argument, and it'd be nice to add a bit of leverage to starting players, but it truly is fine how it is, especially if you have a team, which I did not at first. And a small thanks for not being the typical thread complaining about how imperfect this game is, haha.

 

Lolz, thanks to you too, for your input.

 

I came from the same situation as you did: Loki, no friends, soloing all the time. Took a while to get the Braton, Strun, Latron and Burston, but back then, they were all creds-only. It was reasonable that last year, they changed some of those to crafting guns: After all, our pool of weapons really wasn't getting any bigger. But fast forward to present day, we've got more weapons than we know what to do with. 

 

I think now's a good time to revert to the old ways of having MR0 weapons being cred-purchasable. We already have the weapons pool deep enough to do that. Not to mention, I certainly believe it'll make progressing for newbies seamless, in the sense that no one who just started this game would want to wait 12 hours for a gun (Amirite?). Allowing them to go deeper into this game while trying some breadth of the weapons available will make them more familiar with their play style, as Tsukinoki points out, and this in turn will let them know whether they want to invest in Warframe.

 

That's also our ultimate goal, in a sense, because the more people play Warframe and spend plat on it, the more power DE will have to make this game the game it was meant to be.

 

 

@Calayne

I can definitely see making the MR0 weapons creds only and it makes sense:

Why wouldn't the Lotus (or whoever is supply us with gear) have a bunch of the low level and easy to acquire weaponry for sale at lower prices? And it doesn't need to be many weapons, just give them a few, just enough to get them hooked.

And as long as they have 1 weapon in each 'category' available to build/buy by the time they reach Earth I think they'll be in a good place.

That way they could try out all of the main weapon types and find which type appeals to them and their style of gameplay and just have a lot more fun. That way if they want to run around with a Vulkar and Furis they can without having to either spend plat or get carried through earth and jupiter/saturn for the mats needed to build it.

And with how they are putting Oxium into the game they could also use other methods like that to help statify and layout the weapon tables.

They could have some of the MR3-4 grineer weapons require special grineer only mats that start dropping on Saturn, or make a few market weapons require Oxium and have a player be able to get it easier in the later Corpus missions because the oxium drones spawn more often.

And I dont really want to de-rail this into talking abou tthe mods too much, thats a rabbit trail that doesn't need to be gone down through in this topic.

 

Haha, as a preface, the mod comment was not to be taken seriously, and was merely a footnote.

 

Also, I agree: The Lotus, having saved out hind(s) skins should at least have a stock of cheap weapons available from the market. I think even in competitive online FPS games, there's always a basic set of guns people can choose from: Rifles, SMGs, LMGs, Snipers... Quite similar to the point you made earlier. And I think that's part of the appeal: You're allowed to choose the method of fighting you're most comfortable with.

 

None of these guns are too strong at all: The Vulkar, in fact, probably needs a buff. But for those who want to play this way, they should be allowed to. One LMG to provide support fire, one sniper to take out the key targets, two rifles, to hose mobs down at mid-to-long range. Teamwork, at it's finest. In allowing people to choose their weapons, we allow them to choose their roles. And in choosing roles, balanced roles, a team is able to complement itself.

 

I think a wider selection of weapons is indeed, in DE's benefit and is along their core concept: Cooperation.

 

Hardly seems very tactical if everyone just runs around with an MK-1. Sure, there's still teamwork, as in all levels of play, but there's a nuance that's lost with the absence of defined roles. It just simply won't be as fun.

 

But anyways, overall, I agree with your premise: We need to reconsider the material distribution of the planets themselves, as well as the weapons, when considering how to tier the weapons by Mastery Rank. I think it'll help make Warframe more wholesome and intuitive. Not to mention more "Free Willy" for newbies. 

[Calayne]

Playing through with my friends I kept on catching myself going "I wish I could skip this and go to Saturn so I could make a few of the cool weapons instead of being stuck with what I have..." and I doubt that I am alone in thinking that. Far too many of the weapons are locked away behind the difficulty spike of Earth (and if you get Taxi'd past it the immediate planets following are easier than Earth AND allow you to get cool weapons) and I think that new players really need more availability. Many F2P games operate by grabbing your attention with a seemingly wide range of starting options and then hitting you with the wait times or bottle necks later on, WF kinda has it backwards in that regard.

 

Lol, hit the nail on the head. Ironic, isn't it? Games normally want to start strong, and then bottleneck. Warframe starts really slowly, the players with no time or patience is filtered out, and then it snow-balls into awesome. Very, very strange.

[Tsukinoki]

@Calayne

Exactly.

WF and its weapons start out far too slowly and its not good for keeping people playing if they look at all of the cool types of weapons and go "I have to make to how far to build a bow/throwing knife/whatever?". If instead they go "Oh hey, I can build this cool sniper rifle right away and test it out!" they are going to be having a lot more fun and stick around a lot longer. And the more weapons are available to get the less frustrated they will get, as well as the more likely they are to get through Earth.

And by opening up the MR0-1 weapons to be easily bought and crafted pre-Earth it would only help the game. We have a lot of weapons and as long as they properly set the weapons through the MRs new players would still have plenty of content to look forwards to and grind towards, though it would feel like a lot less of a grind as they would have more options. Further, with how often DE puts out new weapons I dont think that tossing them the MR0-1 weapons would really allow them to speed through the content that much faster.

[Calayne]

@Calayne

Exactly.

WF and its weapons start out far too slowly and its not good for keeping people playing if they look at all of the cool types of weapons and go "I have to make to how far to build a bow/throwing knife/whatever?". If instead they go "Oh hey, I can build this cool sniper rifle right away and test it out!" they are going to be having a lot more fun and stick around a lot longer. And the more weapons are available to get the less frustrated they will get, as well as the more likely they are to get through Earth.

And by opening up the MR0-1 weapons to be easily bought and crafted pre-Earth it would only help the game. We have a lot of weapons and as long as they properly set the weapons through the MRs new players would still have plenty of content to look forwards to and grind towards, though it would feel like a lot less of a grind as they would have more options. Further, with how often DE puts out new weapons I dont think that tossing them the MR0-1 weapons would really allow them to speed through the content that much faster.

 

 

Abso-freakin-lutely love how this is sounding right now. I think we have to do this. I think DE has to do this. We need this to go Live at some point, and I hope it's... Dare I say it... Soon.

 

There's just too many weapons as it is, and the rate we're adding weapons, we'll never have to worry about people running out of things to grind for until well over 200 hours, which is a fair amount. And that's not even considering the Warframes they'll want to get, the Sentinels, the Clan Dojo aesthetics... We're going to a good place. I think it's only fair we share, and allow the newbies to partake in this feast of gratuitous mass-murdering fun. 

 

I think with some of these changes, Warfarm can proudly revert itself back to Warframe, and hopefully, we'll see an influx of enthusiastic new players in our brand-new Vesper Relays. 

 

With gun testing ranges. 

 

And credit-purchased MR0 weapons.

 

Edit: Oh, and freakken' Melee 2.0, man. We're gonna want to add more varieties of melee weapons, too. This is going to be THE defining feature of Warframe. We should let people sink their teeth in deep and let the aromas flow.

Edited February 13, 2014 by Calayne

[Tsukinoki]

@Calayne

Now its just getting a moderator or DE's attention.

But new players are pretty much never going to run out of weapons to buy and frames to use with how quickly DE puts them out. And even if it is a grind to get the new frames and weapons the important part is making it not feel like one, and the easiest way to achieve that is to let them go about it with the weapon types that they want to.

It also allows the new players to easily figure out what works and what doesn't.

And gun ranges would only further allow that to happen.

But the biggest step is making the basic MR0 weapons dirt cheap purchasable weapons. As in you finish Mercury with one time through every mission? Well you can buy one weapon from a small selection to try out on Venus.

[Calayne]

 

@Calayne
Now its just getting a moderator or DE's attention.

But new players are pretty much never going to run out of weapons to buy and frames to use with how quickly DE puts them out. And even if it is a grind to get the new frames and weapons the important part is making it not feel like one, and the easiest way to achieve that is to let them go about it with the weapon types that they want to.

It also allows the new players to easily figure out what works and what doesn't.

And gun ranges would only further allow that to happen.

But the biggest step is making the basic MR0 weapons dirt cheap purchasable weapons. As in you finish Mercury with one time through every mission? Well you can buy one weapon from a small selection to try out on Venus.

 

 

That sounds good! Seems like a good pace for a beginner, actually. When the excitement is still there, you'll want them to soak it in as much as they can, and since Warframe is getting deeper and deeper, there's no fear (Except for the crazy ones) of them taking it ALL in within a sitting. 

 

Heh, actually makes me want to start a new account if that happens, just to have the new player experience. (And a free redirection mod!)

 

You think we could get Rebecca or Megan here? I think this topic has potential to help newbies ease into the game, if not outright suck them in, brain and all.

Edited February 13, 2014 by Calayne

[Tsukinoki]

@Calayne

I'm not sure how to go about getting their attention for a topic.

And I edited the OP to include a bit more that we talked about, such as stratifying the weapons resource requirements by mastery rank as well as opening up MR0 weapons to be dirt cheap credit purchases.

And the more pull that WF has the better.

[Calayne]

Haha, I saw the Edit. Nice and concise. Perhaps we shall just message either one? Rebecca's really friendly, and takes care of community issues very well. I'm sure she'll represent this some way, if it's relevant enough.

 

Edit: Heck, I'll just message Rebecca

Edited February 13, 2014 by Calayne