Dear De, The Rebalancing Of Weapons Via Mastery Rank/grind

[adoomgod]

I'd like to start off by saying that being able to obtain the stug at mastery rank 0 is both funny but also silly. It's dps is absurd and it's relatively easy to obtain.

 

I think you've already been moving in the right direction, and haven't focused on balancing so much because you're more focused on releasing a diversity of content. I implore you take a slightly harder look at balance though in this and other areas because good balance, not over-balancing, can actually provide a great deal of fun and diversity of play.

 

A lot of this will be moot because the only way to fight lvl 50+ enemies is via survival and defense so there is no easily accessible end game yet, but there will be, and this thread is in anticipation of the end game.

 

First of all, higher mastery rank weapons should be better than lower mastery rank weapons. It just makes sense. Now I know people will complain that the starter gear is crap and this just makes things harder but not really. Just remove mk1-braton and start people off with the normal braton. If there are new weapons every 2 mastery ranks or so it isn't going to be bad at all.

 

It'd be nice if there were some mastery rank 10+ weapons. I'm sure you're working on it and would also argue that a large portion of the population hasn't reached that rank but still, there should be some rewards for those who have.

 

Prime weapons should always be a good deal better than their counter parts. Your buff of the latron prime was brilliant and you should keep following this line of thought. Glaive prime shouldn't just fly faster, it should hit harder. The lato prime should be better than the aklato, or there should be an aklato prime. To be clear, the latron prime's max dps is over 100% better than the latron's. This is a good thing as prime weapons are in a way the most difficult to obtain.

I think in general prime weapons should deal 50%-100% better dps compared to their normal counterparts. You can use dpsframe.com as a reference point for accomplishing this.

 

The weaker prime weapons should be easier to obtain than the stronger prime weapons. You don't have to seperate a prime weapon's parts over 3 different tower levels. Latron and Boar prime could exist only in T3's and lato prime could be divided between just t1's or t2's. Heck you could have all of a weapon's parts in the same tower level.

 

Soma should be mastery 8, stug should be mastery 10. etc. etc. These are just the numbers I think would work, of course they could be scaled up or down.

 

In conclusion, the harder a weapon is to obtain, the better it should be, GENERALLY.

[Marshall]

In conclusion, the harder a weapon is to obtain, the better it should be, GENERALLY.

 

Agreed. +1

[VKhaun]

Mastery rank is not, and never has been intended as a gear progression. Obviously the new player needs some space to move forward, but once you get into the mid game expect to find weapons of all types and strengths at all ranks and through all manor of acquirement.

Edited February 13, 2014 by VKhaun

[Ronyn]

Mastery rank is not, and never has been intended as a gear progression. 

That is kind of a big claim considering DE has never quite made it clear what it is supposed to be and there is reason to think it both is and isn't supposed to be....

[Wahooo]

With trading in game it means to an extent absolutely everything in game is available to a F2P player, but in reality a new-ish player slots are still an issue.  Getting to the point you are able to gather mods that are worth a decent amount of plat to buy slots takes quite a bit of time.

 

Until at least some slots are available easier to the free 2 play, player I'm not as enthused about tying too much to mastery progression.  Since it has less to do about progression through the game and experience as it does just leveling up different types of gear, using it properly or not.

 

Some kind of progression is nice, rewarding players who have progressed through the game is a good idea.  Just that, the current way that mastery system works, I think has too many flaws to tie every weapon to it.

[Ribboz]

Mastery rank is not, and never has been intended as a gear progression.

It has always felt like the better stuff took higher mastery? They really blew it on that message then.

[EclecticDragon]

There is a big flaw with the idea that more effort to obtain weapon should = better weapon. This flaw is that weapons in warframe aren't like weapons in your standard RPG that just end up being that some weapons have bigger numbers and are more flashier than lower level weapons, but still maintain the same function. Meaning those weapons are with out a doubt more desirable. Where as in Warframe you can attach some sentimental value to how it sounds, functions or looks. Meaning if DE went through and made the changes your suggest, and I say... wanted to take the Braton into the  "End Game" I would be laughed out! Because everything would be better then it since it would be considered one thee worst weapons in the game.

 

but what if I really liked it how it sound or how it felt to use? Should I really be punished just because I like a particular weapon? I would say hell no, and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one whom would think that way.

 

What I suggest is having it so that the more effort you put into getting the weapon either the more unique or more specialized the weapon should be. Rather then just being out right better.

[VKhaun]

That is kind of a big claim considering DE has never quite made it clear what it is supposed to be and there is reason to think it both is and isn't supposed to be....

 

It has always felt like the better stuff took higher mastery? They really blew it on that message then.

 

 

Max rank is 30. They did not do a complete rebalance of the game's levels, scaling, and damage types back when every weapon ever to be in-game left you at under half that, just to keep putting in better and better and better weapons all the way to rank 30. That's not even power creep, that's balance suicide.

 

Mastery rank is NOT a gear progression, and if anyone from DE is reading I think it would do the game a lot of good to be explicit about it. Even if I'm wrong. I'd love to see a DE Steve post telling me I'm wrong and that Rank 30 will have better gear than 29, which is better than 28, etc etc. I think seeing threads like this pop up every now and again since forever is proof that it's worth being cleared up.

[Ronyn]

Max rank is 30. They did not do a complete rebalance of the game's levels, scaling, and damage types back when every weapon ever to be in-game left you at under half that, just to keep putting in better and better and better weapons all the way to rank 30. That's not even power creep, that's balance suicide.

 

Mastery rank is NOT a gear progression, and if anyone from DE is reading I think it would do the game a lot of good to be explicit about it. Even if I'm wrong. I'd love to see a DE Steve post telling me I'm wrong and that Rank 30 will have better gear than 29, which is better than 28, etc etc.

I am not arguing that mastery rank SHOULD be gear progression.

I am simply stating that DE has been unclear with their intentions about it.

 

I think seeing threads like this pop up every now and again since forever is proof that it's worth being cleared up.

Exactly.

And until they do it's not wise for any of us to state that it is or isn't.

[adoomgod]

First, thank you every for being civil. This is going better than my ability thread.

 

Second, I used the word generally for a reason. I don't think mastery rank 30 weapons should be 1000x better or anything, but I think having some SLIGHT scaling with PEAKS and TROUGHS for weapons available at a mastery rank is not a bad idea.

 

The worst mastery rank 10 weapon could be worse than the best mastery rank 4 weapons, but the best mastery rank 10 weapon should, in my opinion, have an edge on the best mastery rank 4 weapon.

 

And of course you could always have EXCEPTIONS!!!!!

 

At the very least, if it turns out to be a horrible idea please don't ignore my point on prime weapons. I think, using dpsframe.com as a tool, not fact but a tool, (for example their dps for semi-autos assume you can click 10+ times per second which you can't) prime weapons should aim to have their max modded dps be 50-100% better than their non prime counter parts. 

[LukeAura]

What I kind of would like to see is the comfort-version of weapons be available earlier, balanced weapons with middling stats and generally tend to not suck at anything, but not really quite excel at anything else.
While at the higher end of things you get the more extreme weapons, with some exceptional stats, and others awful. Requiring more effort to feel as comfortable as low ranked weapons, but can dish out some serious damage. 
That way early game weapons can be a little bit weaker over all, but because they're well balanced can out still potentially out perform higher mastery rank guns for the majority of game play, only requiring a player to step up their skill level for the highest level play where the more difficult to use, higher ranked, weapons with their extra strengths become better. 


 

[LazyKnight]

It has always felt like the better stuff took higher mastery? They really blew it on that message then.

DE has sent mixed signals with mastery ranked weapons. The clan stuff is the weirdest group that isn't worth the mastery requirement it has. The only thing that can be said about high mastery weapons is that they are "special," and not necessarily of the good variety.

 

I do not care if DE uses mastery locks for weapons or not, but what does bother me is how arbitrary the ratings are for many items.

[Makya]

Mastery rank is not, and never has been intended as a gear progression.

Then why did they change the Soma from MR3(iirc) to MR6? Also if this is true.. what is MR for? It is not for uniqueness as the Soma is bland save that it is crit weapon, similar to a Grakata. If it is not power, that what is it?

[adoomgod]

Then why did they change the Soma from MR3(iirc) to MR6? Also if this is true.. what is MR for? It is not for uniqueness as the Soma is bland save that it is crit weapon, similar to a Grakata. If it is not power, that what is it?

They are creating some end-game "focus" mechanic that MR will be used for but I agree. There are multiple signs that MR is suppose to give you the best weapons to a degree. Good point Makya.