Hikou Vs Kunai, And Why Hikou Is Not Interesting At All

[Phantasmo]

This is Kunai:

4/33/6

Accuracy 100

3.3 RoF

n Crit

m Status

mag size 10

 

 

This is Hikou:

2/15/7

Accuracy 100

6.7 RoF

same Crit

same Status

mag size 20

 

They seem balanced don't they? Hikou fires twice as fast but deals half the damage (aprox.).

Hikou deals more Slash damage, actually 14 vs 6 when RoF is taken into account. Hikou also deals less puncture damage, 30 vs 33.

 

When you sum all damage, Kunai deals 43 per shot, Hikou deals 24. And here lays the first problem: with the same ammo drum of 240 shots, Kunai can deal 43 x 240 total damage.

Hikou on the other side can deliver 24 x 240.

 

Despite having what seems similar stats, one of them will deliver a lot more damage.

 

Second problem: Kunai damage is almost perfect: it's completely focused on puncture damage. You know it will be excellent against Grineer and bad vs anything else.

Hikou however is excellent at nothing.

 

We have much better all-rounders.

 

 

Suggestions:

 

* Give Hikou same stats than Kunai but focus it's damage on Slash.

* Another way of balancing might be to up it's crit or status chance. Such a high RoF weapon will be lots of fun with a good status/crit chance.

 

 

What do you think?

[Archistopheles]

So Hikou has a higher Burst and Sustained DPS, but uses more ammo to get there. What's wrong with that? We all carry two guns.

[immolator1001]

Hikou excels at slash so its good for infested. Also remember the hikou will proc twice as fast as the kunai with twice the fire rate. 

[Phantasmo]

Hikou excels at slash so its good for infested. Also remember the hikou will proc twice as fast as the kunai with twice the fire rate. 

 

"Excel"

 

It does 7 slash and 15 puncture.  I wouldn't call that "excel".

 

Yes, firing twice as fast means you get more chances to proc.

However, with proc and crit chances of 2.5% and 2.5%, it is not really meaningful.

 

Kunai is a great weapon, Hikou is not.

Kunai stand as one of the best weapons vs almost anything but specially vs Grineer.

Hikou on the other hand is not really good vs anything. There are much better Slash secondaries, much better all-rounders, and much better anti-infested secondaries.

[immolator1001]

"Excel"

 

It does 7 slash and 15 puncture.  I wouldn't call that "excel".

 

Yes, firing twice as fast means you get more chances to proc.

However, with proc and crit chances of 2.5% and 2.5%, it is not really meaningful.

 

Kunai is a great weapon, Hikou is not.

Kunai stand as one of the best weapons vs almost anything but specially vs Grineer.

Hikou on the other hand is not really good vs anything. There are much better Slash secondaries, much better all-rounders, and much better anti-infested secondaries.

Oops read the numbers wrong, I assumed it was slash since in 1.0 it did serrated blade. And if hikou has the same distribution as the kunai then its equally viable against the same factions. Besides at least they are different, despair and kunai are the same but despair are better.

[Phantasmo]

So Hikou has a higher Burst and Sustained DPS, but uses more ammo to get there. What's wrong with that? We all carry two guns.

 

Lol what makes you think that?

Hikou deals the same burst and sustained DPS, but will use twice the ammo.

 

 

Edit: it would do the same burst and sustained if you hit with each and every shot.

Edited February 15, 2014 by Phantasmo

[Teasing]

Hikou

Kunai

 

And you were saying?

[Phantasmo]

Hikou

Kunai

 

And you were saying?

 

Your post does not contradict mine. Hikou is much worse than Kunai, and it is worse than many other secondaries.

You either didn't read my post or you simply don't understand.

Doing the same damage wasting twice the ammo means your gun is worse. It means you will empty your ammo faster.

[Teasing]

Sure, it is slightly worse than Kunai, but who uses a secondary until they have no ammo? If that's the case, might as well pop a mutation mod onto it. But saying that, There are advantages and disadvantages to all weapons in the game. Many can define interesting as something else that is different from yours. For me, the Hikous only amaze me at how fast this thing can shoot with all speed mods. Basically it lol.. I don't plan on using any of these two weapons anyway. But yes, you are right. 

[LazyKnight]

What do you think?

Back when it was first released, I wondered why they didn't make it a much slower rate of fire with a much higher damage per hit (basically, a throwing knife version of Lex). Throwing stars would be used for assassination or for causing debilitating hits, and they would not be used as a rapid-fire weapon.

 

I would rather see them made into a slower firing weapon, given very high or pure slash damage, and a guaranteed bleed procs(same as Acrid, but with the bleed effect). There are ways to make throwing stars unique from Despair and Kunai, and it would require changing Hikou's function so it no longer overlaps with the other two knives.

Edited February 15, 2014 by LazyKnight

[Inez]

Reasons Hikou is superior to Kunai:

1. Fully formaed and modded it deals about 10% more dps

2. Its a frickin Ninja Star!

3. With Gunslinger and Lethal Torrent you get to be a crack ninja. And crack ninjas are fun.

IMO, they should make a new slower-firing ninja star to fulfill your vision of throwing stars. Which sound like fun too.

[Phantasmo]

Reasons Hikou is superior to Kunai:

1. Fully formaed and modded it deals about 10% more dps

 

 

And ammo last 50% less. No deal.

Ammo efficiency is key for a weapon that fires that fast, and Hikou's efficiency is crap.

 

I'd rather have Hikou deal less puncture damage and more slash so it actually becomes useful. It will still be far from Good, but it will become more of an option.

 

 

Question to the guys who think Hikou is good as it is: do you use Hikou more often than Kunai? Do you use Hikou at all?