Teorina Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) I'm not sure this would work out well. With just fusion cores, sure, but not everyone uses fusion cores alone. With that, DE would have to include non-fusion cores that would need to equal the same value that's left over after subtracting whatever cores of whatever rarity and level. It definitely would not just be rare 5s being passed out if we go with the assumption that DE passes out only cores in this hypothetical situation. They would need to use other ranks too and where is wasn't achievable by cores exactly, just go as close as possible over. We're talking miniscule differences at that point (lass than the worst rank of core is pretty insignificant) so it's no big deal. The guy at 239,834 loses out slightly to the guy at 239,831 because both get 239,850 but he spent 3 points more? Noone is going to be able to tell the difference and since noone hits the precise limit when maxing a mod anyway it's not gonig to make a real world difference. Edited February 20, 2014 by Teorina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiegraf Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 It's not a bad price if you consider how many fusion cores and credits it takes to max out a level 10 mod Which both (credits and fusion cores) can be acquired for the low, low price of 0 platinum. They're buying time that would have been spent playing, grinding or not, not a product. Of course, if they're willing the shell out 20$ or so for a shortcut, you can only blame their views on efficient budget management. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerogear5 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 these will sky rocket in value once more lv 10 mods hit save em and if you are really lucky hope they make them a really rare void drop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SALE94 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Trade tax for selling it is 1 milion credits base cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elvang Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) Trade unranked mod you were going to use legendary core on to trader. Trader applies core. Trader trades back maxed mod to you. Bam, no 1 million credit tax. EDIT: Ninja moved. This was in response to: Trade tax for selling it is 1 milion credits base cost. Title was something along the lines of "I think legendary cores are pretty fair." Edited February 20, 2014 by Elvang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanctusx2 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) I agree with most of your post, but this comparison is incorrect. There is a reason to have serration at multiple levels: lower level serration has a lower cost. There is no similar reason to have multiple leveled Steel Charge mods, because there is no benefit - ever - in using a lower level Steel Charge mod. Thanks for agreeing. Now it's my turn to return the favor. You're very right. There isn't a whole lot of reason to have more than one aura leveled. I still don't think an account restriction would have been the best choice, as you could see based on the first reaction to the news. It felt really awkward, with people who have multiple accounts benefiting more, and rapid shuttling of mods to any friend you could get your hands on. People felt compelled to get rid of duplicates. I can only speculate why DE did it. Maybe it was just part of a nod to make all Steel Charge holders feel overcompensated to stem any bitterness. I know at least a few friends who were getting pretty comfortable with their extra energy points. I doubt any felt truly slighted by the reversion, but regardless DE gave something out then proceeded to let it sit broken for far too long. Edited February 20, 2014 by Sanctusx2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lautalocos Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 I already have. They are vastly in excess of the cost of getting steel charge ranked, they are open to abuse and they do not differentiate between people with rank 6, 10 or anything inbetween. I've explained that multiple times, please read my earlier posts. Unfair on DE? Sorry, but how? I can't get that at all. i said to the people with steel charges. the people that got the legendary cores. do you mean those people should complain its unfair because they got a lot? only the people with steel charges can complain. people that wherent affected by it should be where they are not called Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zyrusticae Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Massive wall of text, but this post from this reddit thread says just about all there is to say about the matter: First, they should have compensated exactly how much anyone spent levelling a steel charge over 5 in simply credits and rare 5 cores. This is an easily quantifiable amount and would have caused zero controversy. Instead they compensate a highly disproportionate amount for no justifiable reason. Mistake #1. Second, even with this they shouldn't have announced it 4 hours before the change. Doing so created probably the most brutal "alert" the game has ever seen, where those online at that particular time could profit immensely. It's critical to note that this was not a bug or exploit of any kind. No game mechanics were broken or altered. Trading for mods and ranking up mods are some of the most common activities in the game. It was in essence, a 100% developer-sanctioned event. They could have simply made no announcement until right after the patch and while the reward (yes, reward, NOT "compensation") would have still been incredibly disproportionate, nobody would have had more than 2. The really, really idiotic part of all this are the repercussions it's going to have on the health of the game. Now a ton of people have a bunch of Fusion Core Primes that not only completely trivialize ranking up all their rare10 mods (which is one of the most difficult, if not the ONLY really difficult part of the game). There are more than enough cores around to deflate the prices of max rank mods on trade chat for at least a couple months, making them incredibly easy to acquire. Trading max rank mods was already fairly controversial, but now it's becoming far too trivial. For the record, I profited immensely from this (20 cores) and the only thing that stopped me from getting more was the fact I ran out of trades. (I know of people with up to 54.) So I'm not objecting to this from a "missed out" perspective, although even if this was posted by someone who had missed out it absolutely should not diminish the strength of their argument. Not a single person I know actually thinks that this was the right course of action, and the only people who do not think this is a big deal either 1) fully do not understand how difficult it is to rank up a rare mod to rank 10 in both credit cost and fusion core cost (important to note these cores fuse with ZERO credit cost as well - check terr's graph: http://i.imgur.com/rf4opIC.jpg) or 2) do not understand how unhealthy it is for a developer to trivialize accomplishment in a game that is almost exclusively based around grinding. Each one of these 20 supercores has more power in it than the rest of my fusion core collection put together, and I will never have to worry about ranking up another mod ever again so long as I play this game - all for being lucky enough to be online during the right 4 hour-or-so time period. This is the real nail in the coffin and the one that as terr phrased it, is "literally insane." As in, no sane person could possibly think this is a good idea, especially from a developer standpoint. It alienates a tremendous percentage of the playerbase, and shortens the lifespan of the game for the ENTIRE playerbase. This has to be the most vicious non-exploit "timing" I have ever seen in my entire life of gaming. It's worth to note that now at this point with rare rank 10 mods about to become very cheap for at least the next couple months, and with prime parts trading, there is absolutely nothing in this game you cannot acquire with platinum. Nothing. You can buy warframes, clantech weapons, potatoes, primes, max rank mods, and forma all with cash/platinum. Everyone seems to have their own definition of "pay to win" these days, but just put that thought in your pipe and smoke it for a little while. The "It's a PvE game" argument is moot. Imagine if WoW suddenly started allowing end-game raiding gear to be tradable and started selling all the enchants, rep grind rewards, and everything else for IRL cash. Accomplishment and time invested in PvE games absolutely does matter, because human beings are fundamentally social creatures. Unjustifiably trivializing one's past deeds is one of the fastest ways to alienate a playerbase. Warframe is a pretty fantastic concept with a lot of potential, but I can't help but feel that they're consistently completely out of sync with their players. With the UI "2.0" shenanigans (which still needs a hell of a lot of work), the "reworked" void drop tables which required another rework, now being able to trade/buy virtually everything, and quite frankly some lackluster frame/gun design/balance decisions have me wondering what the hell is really going on. It feels like they barely play their own game. I don't have Design Council access as I hadn't even heard of Warframe back when it "founded" so I don't know how much communication goes on in there, but right now there are some serious, serious issues as far as communication is concerned. As a former Tribes player I'm starting to get some crazy deja vu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lautalocos Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 This is a completely reasonable price based on current market conditions. Fact: Maxing mods like serration, redirection, etc. is hard. They have very high maximum ranks, and it goes up double each time. It takes time, credits, and cores. Fact: As a result, market prices for these maxed mods are very high. 140p-250p for a maxed redirection or serration is fairly common. Fact: A legendary core is an alternative means to bypass the expense, effort, and resource cost of maxing such a mod. Therefore any first year economics student will conclude that the price for such a core is the value of what it lets you avoid. The market has determined that maxing is worth a lot of plat when done the old fashioned way. So of course the legendary core would have the same value. As a side note, just because it's the asking price doesn't mean it's selling. As another side note for the folks who say the whole mod system is broken: Contrary to reports, the sky is not, in fact, falling. There are a limited number of these things in circulation, and they're consumed upon use. Assuming no more get released (which we can't but for now...) there are no more being created. So eventually they work their way out of the system and life goes on. I seriously doubt that many people had a steel charge aura to put tons of them into circulation. this. how many people actually got every steel charge aura from the alerts? how many even got 2? how many 1? how many had it levelled to rank 6? how many where online at the time? how many check the forums? the list of these questions go on now tell me, how many legendary cores are still around/where consumed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teorina Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 this. how many people actually got every steel charge aura from the alerts? how many even got 2? how many 1? how many had it levelled to rank 6? how many where online at the time? how many check the forums? the list of these questions go on now tell me, how many legendary cores are still around/where consumed? Doesn't matter. The very principle of people getting 20+ of these things is beyond idiotic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elvang Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Massive wall of text, but this post from this reddit thread says just about all there is to say about the matter: As its hidden in a large chunk of text... I'd recommend reading the chunk of text regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teorina Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Massive wall of text, but this post from this reddit thread says just about all there is to say about the matter: An excellent, informative, concise and well argued post. In other words, almost totally wasted on this forum unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero_Effect Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 I certainly feel alienated. I certainly feel that my past deeds were trivialized. I don't really feel like working towards anything, since "everyone" "has" just bought their way past me. I can no long say with pride "I finally maxed my Serration!" because I will immediately be hit in the face with smug "Meh, I have five maxed serration, I didn't know what to do with the extra LCores". I'll be back in a week or so maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoGicMoTion Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Its a shame you guys are still mad. Owell maybe you'll get over it next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragdollomega Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 They would need to use other ranks too and where is wasn't achievable by cores exactly, just go as close as possible over. We're talking miniscule differences at that point (lass than the worst rank of core is pretty insignificant) so it's no big deal. The guy at 239,834 loses out slightly to the guy at 239,831 because both get 239,850 but he spent 3 points more? Noone is going to be able to tell the difference and since noone hits the precise limit when maxing a mod anyway it's not gonig to make a real world difference. Ok, yea, that makes sense then. Also, I have to wonder if this means that there will be legendary mods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMSGM Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Its a shame you guys are still mad. Owell maybe you'll get over it next year. By the looks of it ill be long gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teorina Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Its a shame you guys are still mad. Owell maybe you'll get over it next year. It's pretty pathetic that because you couldn't refute my argument, you declared yourself out of the thread and now only come back to snipe at people like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMSGM Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 So.. now players are circunventing the 1 million trade fee for LC too, i won´t say how but its not that dificult to figure out, more intended exploits DE? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tr1ples1xer Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 We are all tennos, it is a coop game, this is not a race nor a contest we all play together, tell me again how can this affect you ? Yes you can be mad cause you didnt get a legendary core but let it go, it does not affect me whatsoever how people get there stuff or what they hve, I play for fun not to show off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elvang Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 We are all tennos, it is a coop game, this is not a race nor a contest we all play together, tell me again how can this affect you ? Yes you can be mad cause you didnt get a legendary core but let it go, it does not affect me whatsoever how people get there stuff or what they hve, I play for fun not to show off. The "It's a PvE game" argument is moot. Imagine if WoW suddenly started allowing end-game raiding gear to be tradable and started selling all the enchants, rep grind rewards, and everything else for IRL cash. Accomplishment and time invested in PvE games absolutely does matter, because human beings are fundamentally social creatures. Unjustifiably trivializing one's past deeds is one of the fastest ways to alienate a playerbase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tr1ples1xer Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Well if I aquire said gear with only time playing and not real money i still win no ? They had to spen IRL money and you didn't. I have all gear and I did all the grind for it. Do I care if someone else buys it ? NO because I got it for free they lose afterall. Besides I do not care at all what OTHERS do this is a PVE game, this argument is not moot at all, your reasoning is very immature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMSGM Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) We are all tennos, it is a coop game, this is not a race nor a contest we all play together, tell me again how can this affect you ? Yes you can be mad cause you didnt get a legendary core but let it go, it does not affect me whatsoever how people get there stuff or what they hve, I play for fun not to show off. The fact that someone relatively new to the game can max mods instantly does bother me alot, i spent many hours trying to do so, something like this can´t just be handed to players just because DE went back on a decison for some mod, its a disgrace of a decision.. and it even got worse with the players that exploited the whole situation while DE just sit there watching. So what now? do we start installing cracks onto the game too, doesn´t affect anyone gameplay so it must be ok right? this is not a single player game my friend. Edited February 20, 2014 by RMSGM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tr1ples1xer Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 (edited) The fact that someone relatively new to the game can max mods instantly does bother me alot, i spent many hours trying to do so, something like this can´t just be handed to players just because DE went back on a decison for some mod, its a disgrace of a decision.. and it even got worse with the players that exploited the whole situation while DE just sit there watching. So what now? do we start installing cracks onto the game too, doesn´t affect anyone gameplay so it must be ok right? this is not a single player game my friend. Its not a single player game but we all play together, the fact that some new guy want to spend real money for a maxed mod who cares ? HE SPENT MONEY AND YOU DIDNT !! they are not giving them away to everyone for free... Why do you feel the need to have better gear than others since we are all on the same team ? i dont undestand that, Im proud i got all my gear the hard way: 0$ , isnt it better than having to spend IRL money ? This is a problem in WF people go out and defend doors instead of defending the objective just to have more kills than the other guy that is just wrong. Co-op does not mean you have to have more kills, there is no k/d this aint cod. Edited February 21, 2014 by Tr1ples1xer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elvang Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 (edited) Well if I aquire said gear with only time playing and not real money i still win no ? They had to spen IRL money and you didn't. I have all gear and I did all the grind for it. Do I care if someone else buys it ? NO because I got it for free they lose afterall. Besides I do not care at all what OTHERS do this is a PVE game, this argument is not moot at all, your reasoning is very immature. You're applying your feelings to that of the general population. If that were true, we wouldn't be having dozens of these threads. Edited February 21, 2014 by Elvang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tr1ples1xer Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 You're applying your feelings to that of the general population. If that were true, we wouldn't be having dozens of these threads. I guess you right, forgot I'm getting old and just playing for fun :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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