Digital Extremes Could Deliver So Much More

[FrissonSeeker]

It is, but just because the company has a staff of 200, doesn't mean it has all 200 people working on this one game. For all we know, the Warframe team might just be 20 people, with the rest being distributed to other projects.

 

We have no actual details about the company other than random facts on the Internet, and can only come up with wild assumptions.

It's actually pretty out in the open that the entirety of DE works on Warframe. They've more or less said it themselves that they have "put all our eggs in this basket". Not to mention all of their senior employees are on this one game. And all of their job openings are for this single game.

Edited February 21, 2014 by FrissonSeeker

[FrissonSeeker]

I was in the closed beta and looking back to that there was virtually nothing to do in thoughs days. So I went away for months came back to find a completely different beast had formed for the better. Clans, missions, bosses an actual farming structure and many more weapons and frames.

I think patience is the key with WF/DE

Once the new front-end has been implemented then I think I hope we will see more diverse missions and battles.

Creating video games isn't easy no matter how many people you have and one project can't be compared to another.

Gaming fatigue can ruin an experience really quickly take a break go play something else, do something else then come back months down the line renewed and ready for some more.

Just a thought.

DE can't squander all the time in the world. Just looking at the steam graphs of their player count you can see sharp declines after every update. People will move to better things at this rate. In fact evidence of such is all over this forum. If it takes a year for this game to get where it needs to be the player base will be gone.

[Lemonz]

I was in the closed beta and looking back to that there was virtually nothing to do in thoughs days. So I went away for months came back to find a completely different beast had formed for the better. Clans, missions, bosses an actual farming structure and many more weapons and frames.

I think patience is the key with WF/DE

Once the new front-end has been implemented then I think I hope we will see more diverse missions and battles.

Creating video games isn't easy no matter how many people you have and one project can't be compared to another.

Gaming fatigue can ruin an experience really quickly take a break go play something else, do something else then come back months down the line renewed and ready for some more.

Just a thought.

Fatigue is understandable, but this is a case of concern over Warframe's future.

 

How many times is a person expected to come back to Warframe before clicking uninstall.exe?

[Zakmonster]

It's actually pretty out in the open that the entirety of DE works on Warframe. They've more or less said it themselves that they have "put all our eggs in this basket". Not to mention all of their senior employees are on this one game. And all of their job openings are for this single game.

 

This is fair enough. But until we know exactly how their manpower is distributed, we can only make assumptions. We don't know how their company is structured, we don't know how many people are working on which parts of the game, etc, etc.

 

There could be an entire team working on a revamp on the AI, but they haven't said a thing about it because they can't get it to work right and don't want to get our hopes up. There could be an entire team working on actual endgame content, which they've already mentioned in the last livestream. There is definitely an entire team working on Melee 2.0.

 

I don't know much about game design, but I do know that it takes a lot of manhours, especially if they want to release it in an operational and relatively bug-free state.

[Skynin]

I was in the closed beta and looking back to that there was virtually nothing to do in thoughs days. So I went away for months came back to find a completely different beast had formed for the better. Clans, missions, bosses an actual farming structure and many more weapons and frames.

I think patience is the key with WF/DE

Once the new front-end has been implemented then I think I hope we will see more diverse missions and battles.

Creating video games isn't easy no matter how many people you have and one project can't be compared to another.

Gaming fatigue can ruin an experience really quickly take a break go play something else, do something else then come back months down the line renewed and ready for some more.

Just a thought.

Good to have you here.

[JerryMouse13]

No, you have not, and I, as well as everyone else in this thread, will continue to treat you as though you haven't because you are making blatantly false assumptions to situations, as well as demanding people not discuss something that could result in Warframe becoming even slightly better, and "believe" that self improvement in a company should not be sought after.

 

The fact of the matter is, you're wrong because you refuse to educate yourself and read the OP. Other companies will set up a plan for how to approach a game, settle on things first instead of 'Oh, we'll do it later.' They get things ready for full release instead of having a game that they claim is in 'beta' for a year. Most companies are able to put out a more complete game, a game that is in fact loaded with more content, interaction, lore, and etc within the timeframe that DE has had, and you are ignoring this for this imaginary reason that "it's wrong to compare companies to each other."

 

That is the very origin of where you are wrong. You have to learn to accept that there are standards in businesses. Game development is, in fact, a business, and this methodology is highly frowned upon in general game development circles due to its criminal inefficiency. The vast quantities of time wasted making these junk weapons pop up every week could have been spent building on lore, immersion, quality, or the most important part: testing their own game.

 

Hell, I bet you think every feature currently in the game is intentional. You never know with how little DE actually plays their own game, that one thing you do that's real good, maybe something to do with Narrow Minded not having downsides on some skills, is suddenly gone one day because someone says how much they love the combo offhandedly.

 

But I digress: read the OP, then join the discussion, or please leave and stop flame baiting.

 

So you are suddenly a member of the Digital extremes development team, and can tell us what's actually happening in the office?

 

Because unless you are, YOU HAVE NO GROUNDS ON WHICH TO PREDICATE AN ARGUMENT DUE TO LACK OF RELEVANT, AND FACTUAL DATA.

 

That is what you are failing to wrap your mind around, is that at the end of it all, we here do not poses the relevant data points to properly judge whether or not DE is grossly mismanaging the production of their product, what we have is hearsay, and speculation.

 

 

 

Yes we can. We can see the cost of the game, the size of the team, the development time and customer satisfaction/retention/critical reception.

Using PoE as an example. They used less money, time, and devs to release a game that is far better received in all capacities. At the end of the day, how "good" the game is, is what matters. Comparatively, DE have failed.

 

EDIT: To add, you are equally unqualified to provide your own assessment of the situation. You are just as much an armchair developer as I am. How about you take your own advice and stop talking what you clearly don't know about.

 

PoE is also a much simpler game, in nearly every capacity. It stands to reason that it would be less resource intensive than Warframe.

[Zakmonster]

Fatigue is understandable, but this is a case of concern over Warframe's future.

 

How many times is a person expected to come back to Warframe before clicking uninstall.exe?

 

Being as prominent as they are on Steam, I think they have some time to go before there is a mass exodus. While the veterans of the game are tired of the grind (and it is a very valid concern), there are also a lot of new players who are coming into the game with fresh eyes and a fresh perspective.

 

Just cos someone uninstalls the game doesn't mean he won't re-install it a couple of months down the road when Steam puts Warframe on their frontpage again.

Edited February 21, 2014 by Zakmonster

[FrissonSeeker]

So you are suddenly a member of the Digital extremes development team, and can tell us what's actually happening in the office?

 

Because unless you are, YOU HAVE NO GROUNDS ON WHICH TO PREDICATE AN ARGUMENT DUE TO LACK OF RELEVANT, AND FACTUAL DATA.

 

That is what you are failing to wrap your mind around, is that at the end of it all, we here do not poses the relevant data points to properly judge whether or not DE is grossly mismanaging the production of their product, what we have is hearsay, and speculation.

 

http://www.ratemyemployer.ca/Employers/DI/Digital-Extremes

^These people have a pretty good idea of what goes on in their offices.

[Hinokai]

As long as the player base of this game stays the same, nothing will improve. I've never seen a forum so hostile to criticism.

[Lemonz]

This is fair enough. But until we know exactly how their manpower is distributed, we can only make assumptions. We don't know how their company is structured, we don't know how many people are working on which parts of the game, etc, etc.

 

There could be an entire team working on a revamp on the AI, but they haven't said a thing about it because they can't get it to work right and don't want to get our hopes up. There could be an entire team working on actual endgame content, which they've already mentioned in the last livestream. There is definitely an entire team working on Melee 2.0.

 

I don't know much about game design, but I do know that it takes a lot of manhours, especially if they want to release it in an operational and relatively bug-free state.

What you're summarising it down to is that DE is either understaffed or squandering man-hours. A notorious company review left under DE's name seems to suggest the latter.

 

However, without all the necessary information it would be unfair to assume things as so, right?

 

Everyone constructively participating in this discussion is trying to rationalize why Warframe is in its current state. This is more theorycrafting than a journalistic report, hence the open discussion.

[Zakmonster]

What you're summarising it down to is that DE is either understaffed or squandering man-hours. A notorious company review left under DE's name seems to suggest the latter.

 

However, without all the necessary information it would be unfair to assume things as so, right?

 

Everyone constructively participating in this discussion is trying to rationalize why Warframe is in its current state. This is more theorycrafting than a journalistic report, hence the open discussion.

 

Or they might be actually utilizing their manpower in a meaningful and productive manner.

 

Any of these options are equally likely.

 

Personally, I like Warframe but I don't feel like I have to play it, because I don't. I can play something else if and when I get bored of it. I've spent some money on this game, which is evident, and I do feel a bit invested, but I've also gotten over 300 hours of enjoyment out of this game, which I think is a fair trade.

 

Does DE have internal problems that are causing their development of the game to slow down? I don't know.

 

If they do, I hope they can fix it, but it is honestly nothing I can affect, even if I discuss my &#! off. If they do not, then they'll probably release another big update to the game sometime in the coming months and will receive both love and hate for it, same way the previous updates have been received.

[Tyflos]

It is impossible to actually draw a fair comparison with the limited information we have.

 

This is one of the few things I agree with. In many aspects of life, it is difficult to compare... fairly. However, we can set some general ideas of potential capabilities, like this:

 

We can see the cost of the game, the size of the team, the development time and customer satisfaction/retention/critical reception.

 

Not to mention how it makes us feel. We, as apparent beta testers, have both a right and a duty to offer constructive criticism, even if it's just pointing out where things are lacking. They make it. We play it. They make something good and worth replaying for it's own sake, we'll stay, and happily fund them to varying degrees depending on the individual.

 

I was in the closed beta and looking back to that there was virtually nothing to do in thoughs days. So I went away for months came back to find a completely different beast had formed for the better. 

[...]

I think patience is the key with WF/DE

[...]

Creating video games isn't easy no matter how many people you have and one project can't be compared to another.

Gaming fatigue can ruin an experience really quickly take a break go play something else, do something else then come back months down the line renewed and ready for some more.

 

I was the same way. I don't want to completely rail on DE, because I came back to find a lot of amazing stuff. Maybe I just blew through it all and ended up at endgame with nothing left to do. The amount of time I've spent is unlike that I would in any other game, but that's not a good thing when a large amount of that time was repetitive grind.

 

I appreciate the suggestion about gaming fatigue very much. Playing other games or no games at all makes a significant difference in being able to actually enjoy things. However, having the patience to just come back and see what's changed doesn't work. Some of the content is delivered through the form of time-sensitive events. Sometimes something ridiculous happens, like the tiny window to get L-cores that was missed by those at work or school.

 

Another reason why we can't just silently sit on our asses for months at a time: the overall direction of the game is ambiguous and questionable at the moment. Letting things happen means accepting whatever they bring to the table, but they bring what works as a business model. If we accept whatever "works," that direction doesn't change, and it is clear from the opinions and feelings from this thread that it's not enough to keep us engaged.

[harr0]

Fatigue is understandable, but this is a case of concern over Warframe's future.

 

How many times is a person expected to come back to Warframe before clicking uninstall.exe?

I did hit the uninstall.exe ha, but I came back.

Yeah the future of any game you love is a worry especially one where you have possibly put in thousands of hours play and/or funds which eclipse the price of any standard retail release.

I worry too, but doesnt the stuff what DE have in the pipeline look great with the badlands, space stations, secret orginisations etc. Judging from what was said in dev#22 this isn't even endgame more just apart of a much bigger thing.

I would love it all to be hear tomorrow but that's just not going to happen.

I think and I hate to use the word have faith that DE has it in hand.

I mean some games I've loved over the years have faded into obsecurity Because the devs just left it and moved on and I don't think this is going to be the case with WF.

With the hotfix, new weapons, new frames, reworked bosses inbetween and in the major updates it can only get better.

Hang in there guys.

There's also been a lot of new players who could do with a hand to so if you vets do get bored maybe lend them a hand.

[Skynin]

http://www.ratemyemployer.ca/Employers/DI/Digital-Extremes

^These people have a pretty good idea of what goes on in their offices.

Most rates from... 2008.

And don't you dare to ignore this:

[harr0]

And I forgot to mention the new faction that will appear at some point the future is bright from where I'm standing

[tmtke]

Well, from that 3 employees that rated DE you can't extrapolate anything, partly because the three opinions are really different, and 3 out of 200 is not so much. In a life of a company of this scale (remember, 200 employees is still a smaller company) you can change a lot of things in a smaller period of time. Also remember that Warframe is their lovechild, a game they develop themselves without any huge media giants behind them.

 

Before I got that "how can you do assuptions" sentence, I just tell you that I've been working in smaller and larger studios for 15 years, currently in a company with 500 employees and our product though is not a game, it's development and structure is pretty much the same.

 

Just give them time. And if you're bored, play something else.

[Tyflos]

I mean some games I've loved over the years have faded into obsecurity Because the devs just left it and moved on and I don't think this is going to be the case with WF.

True enough. If they put all their eggs into this basket, they're not likely to drop it and break their only food source.

It's just worrying when, all of a sudden, your email subscription to Flying Exploding Disc Mania 2012 suddenly turns into a completely different game you never signed up for a month after you felt the bad little changes pile up and kill the fun.

 

I like the optimism of your post and others' while still listening to the criticism from the rest of us. I think the problem that arises out of situations like these is that the playerbase starts arguing with itself so NO ONE is heard. Open discussion is required to move forward and reach understanding, even if it's not agreement.

[--collstro--]

Excellent post OP. It's exactly what many of the veterans have been trying to convey to DE for months now, but sadly it always falls on deaf ears. While I haven't read the entire thread yet, I wanted to offer my support before the thread got locked, merged or moved somewhere no one will find it.

[Ritchel]

This is just another rant summarized by

 

"ive spent 1k hours on this game and i expect u make me happy every week by putting awsum content every week!! work DE work, work for my hapiness cuz dis is the onli gaem i playe. i maed research of the company n stuff too".

 

seriously now, if the DE felt that they are losing customers they will rush and add new contents.

 

you should rest sometimes.

 

.

[Lemonz]

This is just another rant summarized by

 

"ive spent 1k hours on this game and i expect u make me happy every week by putting awsum content every week!! work DE work, work for my hapiness cuz dis is the onli gaem i playe. i maed research of the company n stuff too".

 

seriously now, if the DE felt that they are losing customers they will rush and add new contents.

 

you should rest sometimes.

 

.

Please do not mistake your opinion for fact. Sticking to the topic would also benefit the community greatly.

[Chaosdreamer]

Vor prize ... just wondering if it ever be here , all you will be hearing is Soon ™

 

Actually the weekly weapons is only for "the max mastery lvl" that all

[ShadowCore67]

While I do agree that DE does seem to be slow, I still enjoy the game nonetheless.

[Tyflos]

[...]

Please don't strawman other peoples' arguments into blubbering stupidity. People took time and effort into thinking out their responses and you'll just end up an &#! with nothing to contribute.

 

I address, nevertheless, that I feel as thought they are rushing to add new content in the form of weapons. It is NOT bad in itself. The problem is that we're flooded with different weapons to use in the same way, which is supposed to tide us over till real content is developed and released. However, some of that content is just floating around without any clear word or indicator of development. It's where the "SOON" thing comes from. It's okay to take time to make things good, but time taken must be time used.

[harr0]

True enough. If they put all their eggs into this basket, they're not likely to drop it and break their only food source.

It's just worrying when, all of a sudden, your email subscription to Flying Exploding Disc Mania 2012 suddenly turns into a completely different game you never signed up for a month after you felt the bad little changes pile up and kill the fun.

 

I like the optimism of your post and others' while still listening to the criticism from the rest of us. I think the problem that arises out of situations like these is that the playerbase starts arguing with itself so NO ONE is heard. Open discussion is required to move forward and reach understanding, even if it's not agreement.

Haha yeah I know. I used to be one of the first people to jump down a devs throat or fellow forumites when things weren't how I should perceive them to be, still can be from time to time hence my warning point.

But your totally right people are passionate, we are all passionate about warframe and want it to be here for a very long time.

But when threads boil down to just basically calling each other stupid or the like it gets pushed aside along with all our concerns.

[Zakmonster]

Please don't strawman other peoples' arguments into blubbering stupidity. People took time and effort into thinking out their responses and you'll just end up an &#! with nothing to contribute.

 

I address, nevertheless, that I feel as thought they are rushing to add new content in the form of weapons. It is NOT bad in itself. The problem is that we're flooded with different weapons to use in the same way, which is supposed to tide us over till real content is developed and released. However, some of that content is just floating around without any clear word or indicator of development. It's where the "SOON" thing comes from. It's okay to take time to make things good, but time taken must be time used.

 

It's a dual-edged sword for DE. When they say 'soon', people complain about not getting definite answers. When they provide a a deadline, they might end up giving us a rushed product that is inferior, or have to delay release - either way, they'll get complaints again.

 

In this scenario, I'd much rather they take their time and polish everything before release. Let's say Melee 2.0 misses their 'by the end of this month' deadline - I'd be disappointed, but not as disappointed if they'd release Melee 2.0 before it was ready and it was buggy and/or terrible.