SweetAnubis Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Ok so i'm sitting here watching the effor vs trade debates, and i see good points to either side. So i'm thinking why not a balance? Constantly in games i see people upset about how a speific piece takes to long to get due to rarity in addition to there being diferent pieces and it rolls down to just bad luck on the rolls where people end up with a bunch of parts to one they dont want while theyre friend ends up with the parts they want. At this point it always comes down to either the game devs stubornly saying nope have a nice day or breakin down and saying yay free candy for everyone! In the first situation it becomes a pain when you have put insane hours of effort into it only to get the proverbial finger from mere luck and chance. Then on the other hand people who have put the effort and work in lose their status claim when everyone can access these once rare items with ease and no effort MY IDEA I have two diferent ideas that i typically throw out there yet sadly in most games devs just yawn and go their own way ignoring the players. 1. The first one that i usually propose before a change is an exchange system. In this situation you have a part from item a but want part from item b. You exchange part a and some currency or materials for part b. Thus at a slightly larger cost you get the specific part you want after you've put in the effort. We're past that at this point so moving on to suggestion 2. 2. In this situation in order to apeaze both factions of the debate i would recomend a new resource type. This resource type is non-tradable. This same resource type is required for all prime gear and cannot be purchased even with plat. You can farm for this resource type in towers or OD's. Since it is the same for all primes you can trade to get the specific prime parts you want, and since this resource is albeit rare yet the same across the board you can farm for this single resource, thuis putting the effort through and not have to worry about oh i get every part except the one i want. It's a good way to give people the effort requirement for what should be a sort of status symbol and not a common item while not barring people off for one specific part. Thoughts and ideas people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wkfire Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Dunno sounds kinda confusing :/ Effort vs Trade is like Time vs Money. And Time = Money, so.. balanced? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CY13ERPUNK Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 newsflash, NO ONE can get the primes for free with no effort you either: A - get them through grinding or B - get through trade/purchase from someone else who got them through grinding prime access falls under B in a way, as purchasing for $$ is NOT FREE, and completely valid (f2p games CANNOT exist without revenue, thus ppl who purchase things like plat/prime access, are the ones who allow everyone else to enjoy the game as a f2p) but the bottom line is yer logic is flawed, sry, nothing is gained from zero effort, everything has cost and basically all you are proposing is more pointless grind just so that everyone has to suffer with you... no thanks =[ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelsonz80 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 at this point I can only say this, and it really hurts me to saying it. You ask for balance, thats not how DE works... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweetAnubis Posted February 23, 2014 Author Share Posted February 23, 2014 oh it's not a matter of wanting people to suffer with me or anything like that,.... i got lucky going for my primes and got my drops easily. But i do feel the desire that many players feel for something to show for effort. A status symbol if you will. And before bp trades that was prime gear. Having prime gear showed you were a veteran player who had put forth time and effort into the game. It was the "status symbol" of this game. And now that's gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killerdude8 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 It all boils down to the Epeen, No joke at the very heart of Every Prime Trading thread, is someone sad about their Blingy weapons no longer being special or Unique because everyone can get one. The system works perfectly as it is now, More people are getting Prime gear everyday, More people are having fun and Less people are getting pissed off at a $&*&*#(%& grind, Never a bad thing. Yesterday, I gave someone the last part they needed to Burston Prime, Their reaction was Priceless, Happy to not have to grind for it anymore. I don't see why that's such a bad thing. Honestly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweetAnubis Posted February 23, 2014 Author Share Posted February 23, 2014 Ok i'm honestly a little surprised by the harsh replies.... Look i'm on both sides here. I'm not some elitist free player who thinks he should get rewarded for all his time in game nor am i a hey i should be able to pay for anything person. For my burston prime i got every single piece the old fassioned way i got lucky on my drops true but then when i got to my orthose prime i got stuck on that last blade piece and then the trade thing went out. My first thought was yes great no more grinding, so i bought it. I've done both methods. What i'm saying is this. If everything can be gained just by buying it then there is no end game content and there is no status symbol content. It all becomes who has more cash. I've dropped easily close to 600+$ on this game but i still enjoyed the fact i had things to work towards, i had a sort of end game content, a status symbol to fight for. Implementing an exchange system or a resource that requires end game gameplay, yet is a single resource for all primes and is pretty much guaranteed in any end game gameplay would solve the insane grind for the one unique piece you need yet allow people to still have a goal, a sort of accomplishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killerdude8 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Ok i'm honestly a little surprised by the harsh replies.... Look i'm on both sides here. I'm not some elitist free player who thinks he should get rewarded for all his time in game nor am i a hey i should be able to pay for anything person. For my burston prime i got every single piece the old fassioned way i got lucky on my drops true but then when i got to my orthose prime i got stuck on that last blade piece and then the trade thing went out. My first thought was yes great no more grinding, so i bought it. I've done both methods. What i'm saying is this. If everything can be gained just by buying it then there is no end game content and there is no status symbol content. It all becomes who has more cash. I've dropped easily close to 600+$ on this game but i still enjoyed the fact i had things to work towards, i had a sort of end game content, a status symbol to fight for. Implementing an exchange system or a resource that requires end game gameplay, yet is a single resource for all primes and is pretty much guaranteed in any end game gameplay would solve the insane grind for the one unique piece you need yet allow people to still have a goal, a sort of accomplishment. That's something you shouldn't worry about honestly, The option to pay your way out is there, If progression and all that means something to you, The ability to work for it still exists. Whatever floats peoples boats, Let them do their thing, and you do yours and all that wonderful stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeAura Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Dunno sounds kinda confusing :/ Effort vs Trade is like Time vs Money. And Time = Money, so.. balanced? Time vs Money. Time = Money So the amount of time we spend grinding should be proportional to the amount of money. Time = 100s of runs, we're stretching in to weeks/months of play here. Hours upon hours of playing. Money = 5-15 bucks. 5-15 bucks can rush a few items through the foundry, or skip the process altogether one or two times. So at most, we're talking a few days of time in comparative value, not weeks. So no, money =/= Time. Money is a far more effective option. Which is the issue here more than anything. Grinding is still not a viable option to get what we want on its own. It should be our primary source of obtaining primes and mods, and trading should only be the backup. But tradings efficiency over grinding is so ridiculous it is actually more viable to grind items for bargaining power in the market than to grind for the items you actually are hunting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DudeBro79 Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 I still think that Prime Trading was a mistake. What we should have had was a "Token System" like one topic over in general chat was talking about. Take Burston Prime for example, since so many people raged over one part or another not dropping for them. In a proper token system, You would be able to exchange unneeded Burston Prime parts for "Burston Prime Tokens" or something. You would then be able to "Buy" the proper part you need with the tokens, reducing the grind to a reasonable amount but leaving the RNG element to reduce the grind further. (Say you needed the barrel, you would be able to exchange like 5 other parts for the tokens to get it, but if you got lucky and got a barrel while you were grinding, you're done.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wkfire Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 (edited) Time vs Money. Time = Money So the amount of time we spend grinding should be proportional to the amount of money. Time = 100s of runs, we're stretching in to weeks/months of play here. Hours upon hours of playing. Money = 5-15 bucks. 5-15 bucks can rush a few items through the foundry, or skip the process altogether one or two times. So at most, we're talking a few days of time in comparative value, not weeks. So no, money =/= Time. Money is a far more effective option. Which is the issue here more than anything. Grinding is still not a viable option to get what we want on its own. It should be our primary source of obtaining primes and mods, and trading should only be the backup. But tradings efficiency over grinding is so ridiculous it is actually more viable to grind items for bargaining power in the market than to grind for the items you actually are hunting. Lol, simple logic, since time = money, you can substitute one with the other. If you have time, you don't have to spend money on this game to get everything (free player) If you have money, you don't have to spend time on this game to get everything (non-free player) Also, there is nothing wrong with people grinding to gain plats. We all know slots cost plats and slots are the only way to allow you to gain mastery and at the same time keep your favourite weapons. Edited February 25, 2014 by wkfire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Won_Doe Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I think there's a problem with the game when players are willing to shell out real cash to avoid what many would describe as grind. DE should might need to evaluate drop rates and rewards in the game. Prime items are notorious for being tedious to get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeAura Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Lol, simple logic, since time = money, you can substitute one with the other. If you have time, you don't have to spend money on this game to get everything (free player) If you have money, you don't have to spend time on this game to get everything (non-free player) Also, there is nothing wrong with people grinding to gain plats. We all know slots cost plats and slots are the only way to allow you to gain mastery and at the same time keep your favourite weapons. Since we have ways of comparing time to money in Warframe? Yeah, yeah we can. 50 plat for every 24 hours seems to be about the going rate for rushing items. Well look there, 50 plat = 24 hours. DE has set a measurement of time. I'm not saying there is something wrong with people grinding to gain plats. I am saying there is something wrong when it is a more effective option to grind for real world cash, to purchase the items you want, instead of grinding for the items themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wkfire Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Since we have ways of comparing time to money in Warframe? Yeah, yeah we can. 50 plat for every 24 hours seems to be about the going rate for rushing items. Well look there, 50 plat = 24 hours. DE has set a measurement of time. I'm not saying there is something wrong with people grinding to gain plats. I am saying there is something wrong when it is a more effective option to grind for real world cash, to purchase the items you want, instead of grinding for the items themselves. The only reason why you want to rush is because you want to save time (or do not have time to wait). And you do that because you have plats (or money). It does not matter what amount of money is spent, or what amount of time is saved. It only shows that you can use one to get the other. Well you can see it that way, or you could see it as being another method to acquire something you need. It really depends on your luck. If you're lucky, you get the prime part you need. If not, you get other prime parts, then you sell them and buy the prime part you need. Why bother so much when you can be happy with either way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeAura Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 The only reason why you want to rush is because you want to save time (or do not have time to wait). And you do that because you have plats (or money). It does not matter what amount of money is spent, or what amount of time is saved. It only shows that you can use one to get the other. Well you can see it that way, or you could see it as being another method to acquire something you need. It really depends on your luck. If you're lucky, you get the prime part you need. If not, you get other prime parts, then you sell them and buy the prime part you need. Why bother so much when you can be happy with either way? Yes, that's the idea, it is money for time. The problem is though, is that because money for time is so much more convenient than time instead of money. Time should be in a rough comparison more effective to spend than money. I'm not seeing it that way. That's what it is. And no, I'm not talking about the luck of finding what you want. You could grind something else entirely to make plat, to buy what you want and find that to be more effective than grinding what you want directly. And why bother? Because it's absolutely stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-CM-csdisc Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Everyone always complaining about farming and grinding for items. One of the main reason to play the game to to farm and grind for the items and gear. Once you find it...that part of the game is over. What is the rush to end the game faster? Go play a mini-game if you want instant gratification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ksdsdf Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Something is missing here. It's look like that, you put the time in, and you expect rewards. You play the game, and you expect to get rewards that comparable to real money. Where is the variable of "playing" the game and "not actually playing" the game? If i use the money, to buy the prime weapons, do I really play the game? If I grind for the prime weapons, do I play the game? People seems to forget what is the definition of playing for fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davoodoo Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Atm the market is flooded but when new primes will be released, at 1st their parts will be worth more before they drop again due to flood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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