The Real "cost" Of 24-Hour Revives

[KazyJumps]

Also, if you wanted to find a way of using revives to mean it works how the OP thinks it does:

Your character is alive (obviously), when you get killed in a mission without being revived by a teamate it stays dead unless you use one of your four revives. If you run out of revives your character remains 'dead' untill you get another revive the next day (as part of your four daily revives).

Voila, a way of using revive to describe the system the OP thinks is in place.

[JamnikPucek]

I'm pretty sure that that's what the OP said, how else would you interpret his statement that he is "locked out" of his character? He quite clearly thinks that he can't use the character anymore.

It's not the wording that's unclear, it's the context that makes you doubt. When I first found warframe I assumed that it would work how the OP clearly thinks it does. Not because it makes sense, but because Warframe is FtP and the game lets you buy more revives. Thus I assumed that this was a way the devs had chosen to monetize their game and that I would have to pay to get extra revives and be unable to play if I ran out. I was wrong of course, and I realised that when I ran out of lives, but if enough people try the game, and enough people assume that (because it is Free to Play) then at least some people will believe that they are locked out without actually checking.

Name one Free to Play game that locks you out of your character on death (that isnt a blatant scam like WarZ of course). No really. In fact, name one game that isn't Free to Play that does that, especially for 24 hours. Especially a game that isn't part of major "big" publisher.

Let's assume I actually forgot any of the major F2P game out there tha actually does this.

Show one example where Warframe even slightly implies that this is the case. You take a word that has a very clear meaning and even clearer in game mechanic and take a huge leap of logic, then use the allmighty "other players are dum" argument.

I will be blunt. I do not believe that people who use leaps of logic like this are a significant customer group. I do not believe that catering to costumers like this is a vialbe usage of resources, nor is a good direction for a game like Warframe to be taking. I do not believe that people who treat games like WF as trying to literally rob them of their money at every turn and jump to flash conclusions will spend much, if any, money on the game in the first place. Expalining that yes, the word revive means what the word means will not help them. I base this on my own expriences, nothing else. I welcome the chance to proove me wrong, but only backed by actual data. Otherwise we can just agree that our expirences are wholly different.

Retry(ies)

That would actually be more confusing imho. What does retry mean? Do I retry the level? A checkpoint? Where do I start over? What exactly do I retry?

Revive seems much clearer to me in the context what it does.

Also, if you wanted to find a way of using revives to mean it works how the OP thinks it does:

Your character is alive (obviously), when you get killed in a mission without being revived by a teamate it stays dead unless you use one of your four revives. If you run out of revives your character remains 'dead' untill you get another revive the next day (as part of your four daily revives).

Voila, a way of using revive to describe the system the OP thinks is in place.

Except you have the Forefit option that fails the mission, takes you back to the map and does not use a revive. More leaps of logic and seeing things that are not there.

Also, using that logic, you should immidealty start with 3/4 revives on the next day. You quite clearly do not.

Isn't it strange that the game still lets you look through the map, pick equipement and click on any mission you have unlocked if you are on 0 revives? That it does not mention anything about a lockout? That you still see your Tenno kneeling and very much alive in the menu? That lockouts are not mentioned anywhere, in game or outside of it?

Lets stop. Those mental gymastics are not helping anyone. Unless I actually see numbers prooving otherwise, I stand by my previous statement. I fail to see people that take such huge leaps of logic without taking 5 seconds to see if they can actually jump into a mission (after the game does not bar them from it in any way) as a potential customer for a game liike Warframe. And imho explaining to them that yes, white means white will not change this.

[KazyJumps]

I'm not saying there's an example of a free to play game that does this. I'm saying that free to play games have a reputation for either being cash grabs, or having some cash grabby elements, so people are on the lookout for a part of the game that says 'gotcha, now pay up'. Because of that a new player, who has no time invested in the game and doesn't know how these systems work (say they saw the revive counter before ever doing a mission, let alone dying in one and seeing the forefit option, like I did) might decide that the game is probably a cynical cash grab and therefore leave rather than invest time and get burned.

Yes, there are many things, once you play the game a bit, that make it obvious that this isn't the case. Obviously someone (the OP) managed to still believe that their charcter was locked, but I doubt that's common. However it wouldn't hurt to have some part of the UI (say a tooltip) or tutorial explain how the revives system works (a line like "You can revive during a mission, even without the help of another player, up to four times a day, running out of revives will not lock you out of your character." would make the situtation entirely clear and nobody would think otherwise.)

EDIT: also, reading back a bit, you might be misinterpreting my stance. I don't think this is a significant problem, I almost didn't play because of it (fortunately I gave the game a try anyway) but I doubt that a significant number of people will be affected. I'm not proposing massive sweaping changes, which is why a line in the tutorial or a slightly longer tooltip is what I suggested.

Edited March 28, 2013 by KazyJumps

[zyraconne]

That would actually be more confusing imho. What does retry mean? Do I retry the level? A checkpoint? Where do I start over? What exactly do I retry?

Revive seems much clearer to me in the context what it does.

You said it yourself.

[NoCatharsis]

Wow, I just logged on for the evening and 22 replies. I read them all and a few things really stuck out to me. I am glad that some of you defended my thought process, as this was my very first experience with this game in particular, and with any PC micro-transaction game in general.

I would say majoritatively that my immediate assumptions may not have been the fault of Warframe designers, but were based on previous experiences playing micro-transaction / F2P (whatever you want to call them) games on iPads or Androids. I was always very turned off by the process flow involved with games like that, and I just assumed this was something similar. Speaking from the PoV of my other regular co-op teammates, all 4 of them would probably agree with the assumption because we have never played a game based on this sort of system on a PC. If any of us have experience with microtransaction systems, we want nothing to do with the infamous "pay now or wait 3 days for another chance" idea.

Ultimately, I would agree with one of the posts that this game is not that. After reading further today, I found that you can access basically all aspects of the game without dropping any cash - by using blueprints or xp-unlocks. Now I know. Otherwise, how was I to assume?

Anyway, here are the lucky responses that stuck out to me today and I'd like to answer a few - at least to give feedback from a true super-newb's perspective:

"I am now locked out of my character for 24 hours"

What led you to believe this is true?

Running out of revives does not lock you out of your Warframe.

Honestly, this question was asked several times in various ways. I made this assumption when I lost all 4 revives, went into my loadout screen, and saw a little button asking for cash to recharge my revive count. At this point, I did not even attempt to join another game (though it was getting late and I was planning to log soon anyway).

^ what he said. you can still play with no revives. and your friends who play with you can still revive you when youre dying/bleeding out (not dead yet). so that whole.. 2 cents worth of text - kinda invalid :/

One last thing to note - revives reset (now) at 12 am GMT, so it wouldn't matter when you or your friends lost revives; they'd all reset at the same time.

These pieces of information would have prevented my entire original post. However, after playing through the tutorial - if these items were even mentioned - they were not emphasized effectively and therefore not made clear to me. And yes, I paid attention through the entire tutorial.

If you use 4 revives in 10 minutes or in the same mission, maybe, you should change mission or think about that projetiles arent candies XD

I actually included this quote because I found it somewhat irrelevant, and less useful than the others (the first two sentences are apt, however they had already been mentioned several times by this point). As for your final sentence, I think I read about it here: http://en.wikipedia....iki/Red_herring

The paying for revives thing is a terrible idea. It's fine if you have a bunch of good mods and you've vested hundreds of hours into the game but when you are playing at low level, it's a terrible idea. There needs to be some kind of level limit for this. Like you have an unlimited number of revives until level 10 or something.

And no, the free platinum thing doesn't suffice. This is about turning people off from the game. They will instantly think, "Oh this game is just another pay to win." Even though we know that's not true, that will be one of their first impressions of the game. As much as I love Warframe, DE should be scolded for implementing this system. And it upsets me because I want the game to succeed.

Three times now I have had discussions with people who decided that they weren't going to keep playing Warframe because it was pay-2-win. All three of them pointed to this very thing as one of the reasons they (erroneously) believed it was. No good will come of it and DE needs to change it. DE, don't turn away new players with this. It is happening.

This, sir, sums up everything I was trying to say, and with much more brevity. Knowing what I know after 1 day of playing, this precisely outlines my impression of the game. Thank you.

All of you guys correcting the OP are completely missing the point. The technicality of the issue isn't important. You're right in that regard. But it is still giving new players a bad impression. Address the issue.

This comment sums up the entire thread: The issue here is that newbs like myself exist - perhaps you were one at some time in the past as well. If a game does not outline these items in a tutorial, or does not make them intuitive somehow, then wrong or not - people leave. I don't feel at that point the onus would be on me for somehow not exploring the game enough or skipping vital upfront information.

Loosing them over what mechanic? That dying is punished? Since when in the history of Video Games loosing does not mean... Well, loosing. Seiroulsy. The "many others" has absolutely no backing in actual numbers, so I can't really even address that.

The tutorials need a bit of work in explaining the leveling/modding mechanics, yes. Hells, I can't say I can really oppose throwing in a "Death is bad, do not die" clause. But seriously, if "many others" leave the game because this is not immideatly apparent to them after dying a bit at the latest, I do not think the tutorial will help any.

If anything, this seems more a "let me die with no consequence whatsoever" plea then anything else. I do not see what you are implying from the OP at all.

From personal experience of, well, writing the OP last night - you are mistaken, at least as far as my perspective was concerned. I have played computer games for 20 years, and along the way it became intuitive that dying is bad, perhaps very bad. Where you are hugely mistaken, however, is in your comment that you do not think a tutorial would help. Incorrect.

To address your final comment: I do not expect a game to allow me to lose without some consequence, or I believe it would be considered a simulation or a beta testing procedure. The game was not touted as a simulation, and I did not apply nor was I accepted to closed beta or alpha where perhaps death was intentionally activated for the purposes of development. When I died and saw that I had 3, then 2, then 1 revive left - I assumed this meant ultimate mission failure. As it goes, I was correct in this assumption, probably due to intuition gained through 20 years of dying in computer games. What I did not know was that I had to purchase more revives, which I (errantly) assumed would allow me to continue playing within the next 24 hours. That was my immediate impression and I did not attempt anything more after I saw the purchase button next to Revives in the character screen.

As far as your comments & your assumptions that I thought death shall have no consequence: You are simply wrong. Yes I was wrong about other assumptions, but on the premise that I ever assumed this was an all-I-can-play free death buffet, no. In fact, as a fellow gamer, I might suggest that you are arguing for the sake of arguing since the idea of "free losing" strikes me as so obviously outside the scope of any game I've ever played.

If I died twice within the first 10 minutes of mission I'd forfeit straight away, I have no idea how you're dying so often.

I'll go as far to say this game might not be for you, don't get me wrong I do understand your point about new players getting a bad 'impression', but I cant grasp why you'd continue a mission even after 3 deaths to the point you had only one left. There is a clear indicator about how many lives you have, didn't you think it was a bad idea to use them all up on ONE mission?

In a traditional MMO (Aion,TERA, WoW, Whatever) you wouldn't attempt to level up on mobs that dish out more damage than you would you? (4 freaking times!) So.... does it really take a newbie 4 deaths, with an indicator stating the maximum amount of times they can revive to come to the realization that they cant solo a specific mission? Erm...

If I may be so kind & repeat my previous link: http://en.wikipedia....iki/Red_herring

But for the hell of it... I played EverQuest for 12 years and WoW since beta in 2004. It may divulge my age, but that damn near equates to 1/2 of my entire life playing MMOs fairly regularly. In these games there were obvious penalties for death, however none had an actual countdown timer for how many I was allowed to have each day. And yes, I have died multi-thousands of times against mobs that dish out more damage than me - sometimes purposely, sometimes not. And sometimes way more than 4 times in 10 minutes (Ever gone on a 16-hour long corpse run after a huge raid wipe? My first was @ age 16.).

In other words, you are implying that the OP (and the mysterious "many others" as the poster I was replying to implied) does not understand the meaning of the word "revive" and has just assumed they are lives without the game telling him that he cannot play anymore? Or in fact clearly giving him the option of using a revive or failing the mission when he dies if he has the tokens?

I do not think there is a simpler word in the English langauge that puts the concept out. And it is one word that is not scifiy or any other wierd stuff like that. One word with a clear meaning.

I would understand if it was "lives" or whatever else, but the word "revive" clearly indicates its function. That is even worse then my assumption. Way worse. I try not to be a smug #$&(% as much as I can, but if the word "revive" needs to be explained to the modern video game player in a tutorial, to quote a certain meme from a certian show, I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

Firstly, your argument appears to be yet another red herring that does not address the primary issue. I tire of pasting the Wikipedia link so you'll have to find it up there.

But again, for the hell of it let's give your comments a go:

To follow up in the vein of my prior experience based largely on MMORPGs (above comment), I might say again that no MMO I played ever had a daily "death" or "revive" or "lives" counter attached to it. This is nothing more than a new concept to me, which I now understand with respect to this game.

However, the word "revive" in my past experience has been an infinitely castable spell by another player, after my death, that allows me to literally come back to life where I would otherwise suffer the consequences of death. Several character classes in various MMOs have allowed personal "revives," without external assistance, but these are generally very rare & not intended for common usage (I'm thinking WoW shamans). Because revives have most commonly referred to external help, by a character with infinite casting ability on another person's corpse - then I must disagree that your argument of an obvious definition to "revive" is that which you have created within your own wording. "Revive" is obviously unique & specific in its definition within Warframe, as is it is also in WoW, EQ, whatever. There is a common dictionary definition as you suggest, however I doubt the primary listings spell out computer game revives - therefore the word "revive" in Warframe probably does not match that of Webster's, and from my own experience I cannot say that this word summarized the entire concept within this game, as you stated.

Anyway, your premise seems to be that "revive" is a word with identical meaning throughout the universe of computer gaming, with precisely the same stipulations & consequences. I personally would have found a tutorial helpful. So with that in mind, I am sorry to be a source of distaste with your life on this planet. Wherever you decide to go, maybe death will have no consequence & may you be blessed with plenty of revives - perhaps more than 4 per day.

[KazyJumps]

I thouroughly enjoyed reading that post^. Just saying :)

[Azure_Kytia]

I do believe that there would be less confusion if the system were reworked to cater for newer players in some way. I don't think there should be no consequences for dying, but at the same time when you do run out of lives you see a bright red flashing 0/4 REVIVES <HERE, A BUTTON TO PAY CASH CURRENCY TO REFILL> At the least It would be great to see a "Revives reset in <hours>:<minutes>:<seconds>" below it, so you would inherently know that they *do* fill up for free and *when* they fill up. Remove the whole guesswork from the Login/Revive system, and magic shall happen.

[Mak_Gohae]

There is nothing in the game that says you are locked out of your warframe at all.

If that is the impression he had you cant really blame the game because the game never tells you that you cant continue to play. What it doesnt tell you is what happens if you die again but you will soon find that out when .... you die again.

[zyraconne]

I do believe that there would be less confusion if the system were reworked to cater for newer players in some way. I don't think there should be no consequences for dying, but at the same time when you do run out of lives you see a bright red flashing 0/4 REVIVES <HERE, A BUTTON TO PAY CASH CURRENCY TO REFILL> At the least It would be great to see a "Revives reset in <hours>:<minutes>:<seconds>" below it, so you would inherently know that they *do* fill up for free and *when* they fill up. Remove the whole guesswork from the Login/Revive system, and magic shall happen.

It'll be very helpful to let them know about those "revives", while making it look even more like those Android freegames.

[JamnikPucek]

So much text, so little actual argumentation. Bonus point for wiki link to logical falacy article, followed by that exact fallacy.

I would comment, but there is nothing there that I didn't already address.

The short version seems to be: You died a lot. You assumed that revives = lives even though nothing in the game said so. Long post on false premise ensues.

Nothing in your boasts of vast expirience (which is an informal logic fallacy too, by the way) suggests that revives in Warframe are not what the word means. The rest is pretty much a repeat of what was already said, so yeah.

I guess ulitmately adding a "Revives are revives, not lives" clause to a manual or tutorial can't really hurt. Doubt it will help the people it is supposed to help remain in the game but it probably cant do any harm either, like "caution, hot coffee is hot" warnings.

[DSMK2]

Yeah, the wording and the way revives are displayed is confusing; zero revives gives the impression that the warframe isn't usable for the rest of the day, even though there is no other indication that the warframe isn't actually locked!

---

I think, instead of having revives per frame, it's X number of revives per mission; that way the perception is shifted away from "oh my character has zero revives can't use it for a day" to "oh I really failed this mission". It'll probably make the game feel more fun when players aren't playing with the idea of limited revives in their minds (that 'two revives left, I quit') ; I predict players will stay ingame longer!

With the 3 platinum price for a revive recharge, I'm not into buying it as if the game was an arcade machine. I would like to hear from DE how much players have brought the recharges.

The revive system isn't friendly to solo players either, especially if they unleashed the Stalker's wrath after killing a particular boss.

I would rather use lore to rename the "revive". It could be easier to attribute the 'revive' name to an inbuilt device in the warframe based on some lost Orokin technology.

Edited March 28, 2013 by DSMK2

[Grinstone]

I guess ulitmately adding a "Revives are revives, not lives" clause to a manual or tutorial can't really hurt. Doubt it will help the people it is supposed to help remain in the game but it probably cant do any harm either, like "caution, hot coffee is hot" warnings.

In my view, this encapsulates this thread as much as anything else that has been said.

See, I was pleasantly surprised to discover that the revives reset every day. I did not expect or assume that. I did not assume that running out of revives would lock me out of the game. As someone else has already pointed out, the revives are a convenience. Like most everything else in this game, if you want access to convenience (more warframe slots, more weapon slots, skipping the wait time to build something) you pay for it.

[CosyPigeon]

In other words, you are implying that the OP (and the mysterious "many others" as the poster I was replying to implied) does not understand the meaning of the word "revive" and has just assumed they are lives without the game telling him that he cannot play anymore? Or in fact clearly giving him the option of using a revive or failing the mission when he dies if he has the tokens?

Yup, that's exactly what I'm implying. Don't agree with me? I don't care.

As for your rant about the definition of the word revive, for all your claims about people not understanding the meaning of the word, I think the OP's understanding of the word itself was pretty clear. His character was dead, he had just witnessed his character die numerous times, and once he ran out of revives, he was returned to the main menu screen, where he was shown a mission failed screen, and that he no longer had any revives. Since he already knew his character was dead, and the game has zero information or tutorials regarding how any but the most basic game mechanics work, why wouldn't he assume that he can't play because he is unable to revive his dead character? Lots of reasons I suppose, but it's really not as farfetched as you claim. Lots of people could, and probably have made this misunderstanding.

You have spent most of your time in this thread heavily implying that everyone else here is stupid in comparison to yourself. Considering your ego, I find it strange that you find it difficult to believe that other people would make this kind of mistake.

[NoCatharsis]

So much text, so little actual argumentation. Bonus point for wiki link to logical falacy article, followed by that exact fallacy.

I would comment, but there is nothing there that I didn't already address.

The short version seems to be: You died a lot. You assumed that revives = lives even though nothing in the game said so. Long post on false premise ensues.

Nothing in your boasts of vast expirience (which is an informal logic fallacy too, by the way) suggests that revives in Warframe are not what the word means. The rest is pretty much a repeat of what was already said, so yeah.

I guess ulitmately adding a "Revives are revives, not lives" clause to a manual or tutorial can't really hurt. Doubt it will help the people it is supposed to help remain in the game but it probably cant do any harm either, like "caution, hot coffee is hot" warnings.

Ok. Fallacies noted on each of our behalves, including your latest ad hominem. All of your comments duly noted. I take responsibility for being a hypocrite, and I apologize on top of that for wasting more time addressing your above response that ignores the topic at hand.

Ultimately, I was never intending for argument as you state in your first sentence. The intent of my OP - apologize if I was unclear - was to provide feedback on a game element that I felt detracted from the overall experience. Within these pages of responses, I have since learned that my immediate assumption was incorrect. However, the notion that my first impression as a totally new player was that I was being dismissed from gameplay as a punishment for death. Errant or not, others have noted similar perceptions from new players, possibly due to lack of clarity within the tutorial or lack of intuitiveness within the interface.

My intention was to provide free feedback (a thing generally valued by many designers, marketers, salespeople, etc. in my experience) of my impressions as a first-time gamer. I obviously liked the game enough to provide such feedback, whereas I would normally delete from my system and move on. I did all of this in hopes of seeing a more polished game that I would enjoy as a gamer. I feel I would certainly invest in a game that provided a great experience - my previous 200+ Steam transactions prove my record - and I encourage the Warframe team to keep moving forward.

If I were a designer or marketing agent reading through these feedback posts, I believe I would extract the most value from those who address their overall experience & the larger game elements that stand out because these create the profit basis. Secondarily, I would note items that are unintuitive to a new user, or are not well documented. I would do these things because they would probably increase market exposure by word of mouth, through positive reviews, and by creating a better & more unique product. I feel personally that I would not, however, focus on semantics as a basis of customer input. We can probably agree this has taken some attention away from the original intent of the feedback I was trying to provide.

[shoudra]

To OP, besides the infighting I'm glad we got it sorted out for you. As most of the staff from my understanding were at PAX and got back recently. Realize some things in the game need to be explained for clarity for newbies either on the splash screens/tutorials etc. So, hopefully if anything they will get to improving the new user experience. Also, a great resource to look at first (not sure if you knew this) is http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/WARFRAME_Wiki. Which will help you in the future!

[KazyJumps]

Yeah, the wording and the way revives are displayed is confusing; zero revives gives the impression that the warframe isn't usable for the rest of the day, even though there is no other indication that the warframe isn't actually locked!

---

I think, instead of having revives per frame, it's X number of revives per mission; that way the perception is shifted away from "oh my character has zero revives can't use it for a day" to "oh I really failed this mission". It'll probably make the game feel more fun when players aren't playing with the idea of limited revives in their minds (that 'two revives left, I quit') ; I predict players will stay ingame longer!

With the 3 platinum price for a revive recharge, I'm not into buying it as if the game was an arcade machine. I would like to hear from DE how much players have brought the recharges.

The revive system isn't friendly to solo players either, especially if they unleashed the Stalker's wrath after killing a particular boss.

I would rather use lore to rename the "revive". It could be easier to attribute the 'revive' name to an inbuilt device in the warframe based on some lost Orokin technology.

It's unlikely that the devs are going to change the core mechanics of the game to fix a misunderstanding of those mechanics. A better explanation somewhere along the line for new players (tutorial/tooltip/whatever) is the best solution to the problem (and honestly I don't understand why anyone would raise an issue with clarifying the mechanic in a f**king tooltip/one line of dialogue in the tutorial)

[NoCatharsis]

As for your rant about the definition of the word revive, for all your claims about people not understanding the meaning of the word, I think the OP's understanding of the word itself was pretty clear. His character was dead, he had just witnessed his character die numerous times, and once he ran out of revives, he was returned to the main menu screen, where he was shown a mission failed screen, and that he no longer had any revives. Since he already knew his character was dead, and the game has zero information or tutorials regarding how any but the most basic game mechanics work, why wouldn't he assume that he can't play because he is unable to revive his dead character?

This is accurate. Though the "revive" discussion was an overall irrelevant semantic in my opinion, the general narrative you give here pretty accurately describes my impression upon logoff. There is simply no argument to how I intepreted the game at the time. My feedback would probably be deemed inconsequential & irrelevant by other players if they did not somehow relate to my outlook - either through their own experience or through a perspective based on their own knowledge of the gameplay. Apparently something I said has related to many of the readers of this thread, given the constant flow of opinion responses by players throughout the day.

You have spent most of your time in this thread heavily implying that everyone else here is stupid in comparison to yourself. Considering your ego, I find it strange that you find it difficult to believe that other people would make this kind of mistake.

I'm just giving a thumbs-up to this comment, otherwise nothing of value to add here.

[Cakes]

His character was dead, he had just witnessed his character die numerous times, and once he ran out of revives, he was returned to the main menu screen, where he was shown a mission failed screen, and that he no longer had any revives. Since he already knew his character was dead, and the game has zero information or tutorials regarding how any but the most basic game mechanics work, why wouldn't he assume that he can't play because he is unable to revive his dead character?

Assuming that's the case, by that logic after the daily revive refill the player should see 3/4 revives because you spent one of them to revive the Tenno that ran out of revives the previous day (still dead right?). Oh but Cakes, maybe the player assumed that the Tenno revives with 4 free revives after 24 hours....if that was the case then why not also assume the Tenno could revive with 0 free revives available once the mission ended. That immediately makes me question the logic behind the rest of the OP's argument. The fact that your Tenno is peacefully meditating in the background should have raised a screaming red flag that the assumption was made in haste with no thought behind it. What annoyed me personally was the OP running with the 24 lockout assumption as a hard fact and trying to make a case out of it; for example, using the "fact" that the player is locked out for 24 hours to couple with the "fact" that the revive refills are based off individual timers to give feedback about poor game design. Might as well run all the way with it and say the the revival system is P2W because of these "facts". You know what they say when you assume, but right now it's only you.

The majority's majority of players won't even come close to making this revival/no playing assumption simply for a few very simple reasons. The assumption that not dying is equivalent to not needing to restart a mission, a result from past FPS experience. Clicking a mission just to see what happens, a result of curiosity and the ability to click No for potential popups. Not giving a it a second thought and clicking the mission again, the result of assuming nothing's wrong until proven wrong. There are more than a few other reasons that are too niche to mention.

The entire thread boils down to the game needing a tutorial to explain everything so no one f***s up this badly.

Delete the thread and start a new one voicing that concern and requesting it be implemented in a future tutorial. Feedback to fine tune the game is always good. However, new players who don't know any better may just read the first post because its title is most applicable to them and take those assumptions as hard facts, or go "pffft, what a blowhard". Stop spreading false assumptions.

[Night_Watch]

I am a long MMO and Solo game player and I made the same mistake and quit playing for the night.

Revive in context of WF is correct - it is us that misunderstood what its meaning is. Part of the problem resides in the nature of programmers. They KNOW what everything means -- That is what tutorials are for.

Most of the comments were meaningfull and I am Very greatful for them.

The rest (if arguements occured) I treat as trolls.

At the end of the day the bottom line is that there needs to be a specific tutorial on the Revive/quit options. There currently is NONE.

NOTE: From now on I will quit and only use revive if at the end of a long chain/mission when playing solo. (Thanks to the poster who recommended that.)

Additional Note: - Am activating Follow - as this is an important threat and actually should be made PINNED for the noobs (and we are all noobs, when we start playing a new game).

Edited March 28, 2013 by Night_Watch

[Dwei-]

Glad to see this thread didn't go... a different direction.

If anything, i believe the bottom line of this thread is this: We need a better tutorial system or introduction to beginners.

Warframe has plenty of awesome cool features, but to keep majority of the players to stay... sometimes it doesn't hurt to provide something that spoon feeds us.

Gamers like to be pampered! I sure as hell do!

[Cakes]

as this is an important threat and actually should be made PINNED for the noobs (and we are all noobs, when we start playing a new game).

Only if the first thread is edited to provide properly accurate information and not the "I assume this thus it is fact and here's what'll happen because of this now-fact" fiasco it currently is. Otherwise, a terrible idea in its current form as it has great potential in spreading false information.

No need to mislead new players who read only the first post.

[shoudra]

agreed cakes, I was thinking of writing a clean thread with all the info provided here but, haven't found the time as of this morning to sit and write it all.

[Deaths.Reap3r]

Wow, I just logged on for the evening and 22 replies. I read them all and a few things really stuck out to me. I am glad that some of you defended my thought process, as this was my very first experience with this game in particular, and with any PC micro-transaction game in general.

I would say majoritatively that my immediate assumptions may not have been the fault of Warframe designers, but were based on previous experiences playing micro-transaction / F2P (whatever you want to call them) games on iPads or Androids. I was always very turned off by the process flow involved with games like that, and I just assumed this was something similar. Speaking from the PoV of my other regular co-op teammates, all 4 of them would probably agree with the assumption because we have never played a game based on this sort of system on a PC. If any of us have experience with microtransaction systems, we want nothing to do with the infamous "pay now or wait 3 days for another chance" idea.

Ultimately, I would agree with one of the posts that this game is not that. After reading further today, I found that you can access basically all aspects of the game without dropping any cash - by using blueprints or xp-unlocks. Now I know. Otherwise, how was I to assume?

20 Paragraphs later...

The end.

Im really glad to see you being one of the people that dont defend themselves for being a "noob".

I really appreaciate that your admiting your "newbiness" :P

Dont worry, we were all noobs like you and have all thought similar things like you have too.

Edited March 29, 2013 by Deaths.Reap3r

[Zonzai]

Okay so we have all basically agreed (except for that one guy that's the Jesus of viedo games) that there is a problem here because people aren't perfect and we all make mistakes?

While I agree that a tutorial could be helpful, I don't think it goes far enough. What else can we do to prevent new players from rage-quitting before they've taken the time to understand the revive system?

1.) Make level 10 or less warframes have no revive limits?

2.) Make the starter zones have no revive limits?

3.) Remove revives entirely?

4.) Make downed state durations longer?

5.) Put a help button beside the revives list so people can read about them?

6.) Make only supercharged warframes have a revive limit?

Edited March 29, 2013 by Zonzai

[StarKnight]

If you need to revives so much, it mean your equipment is not meant for that level of map. Please go play low level map to hunt for more Mods to improve your frame and weapon before you feedback on their advertising & marketing.

Do remember to create more Warframe so if you have all the 10 Warframe, you have a total of 40 Revives in 24 hours time.

And you get to revives 4 times in each mission.

Good luck happy playing.