Warframe Balance

[fatpig84]

What's wrong with AMD getting millions of damage ?

 

She is the only frame with a scaling AOE aside from Nyx.

And unlike Nyx, she has to aim a small tiny ball and remain stationary most of the time to do so.

 

At high levels a stray hit can end her before she can max out AMD's potential.

So I don't see the problem.

[Dalu__Ka]

What's wrong with AMD getting millions of damage ?

 

 

Really?

[Hyunsai]

Guys, things will be better when they will actually have some staff working on balance.

 

I m starting to believe they use random ability generator and hope it fits.

 

RNG everywhere !

[Nnazqul]

What's wrong with AMD getting millions of damage ?

 

Really?

2x Really?

[fatpig84]

Really?

 

Read my little paragraph again.

It is much harder to setup AMD than simply go to Nirvana absorb Nyx.

 

AMD is also unreliable if you are lagging since you can't pump enough shots into it to do any noticeable damage.

Not for Nyx's case.

Edited March 8, 2014 by fatpig84

[Dalu__Ka]

So because something actually takes some kind of small effort it is ok do millions of damage?

 

I am a supporter of balance between frames, so I completely disagree with you.

[Cwierz]

So because something actually takes some kind of small effort it is ok do millions of damage?

 

I am a supporter of balance between frames, so I completely disagree with you.

I agree with this.

AMD requires no particularly high skill to use, yet it can output 800k damage with a single vectis shot(with primed chamber it is closer to 2 million), and upwards of the millions with some brakk shots.

Warframe needs some balancing.

Edited March 8, 2014 by Cwierz

[Monolake]

I agree with this.

AMD requires no particularly high skill to use, yet it can output 800k damage with a single vectis shot(with primed chamber it is closer to 2 million), and upwards of the millions with some brakk shots.

Warframe needs some balancing.

Funny thing is most Noobas never use Antimmater because spamming 4 is so much easier. I bet 90% of Nooba players dont even know how good it is. Even in long T3 its like 1 out of 10 Novas actually does something besides spamming 4 and run for extraction at 40min when mprime stops to instagib rooms. Skilless OP ability breeds skilless players.

Edited March 8, 2014 by Monolake

[(PSN)billy-d-squid]

So because something actually takes some kind of small effort it is ok do millions of damage?

I am a supporter of balance between frames, so I completely disagree with you.

What are you blabbering about? AMD is okay, it needs either the entire team or some seriously high lvl modded weapons fired into it to cause that level of damage, We're talking Brak, Soma, Penta lvls. Something you're not going to find on low lvls. Maybe if MP wasn't an all in one do everything we'd actually see AMD used more, at the moment theres no need MP is more efficient.

Also the detonation radius is also relatively small compared to most abilities and it requires the player to expose themselves to the enemy to put damage into the AMD, along with a travel time and no CC to stop enemies spreading out. It's good, but it's not obscenely powerful.

Edited March 8, 2014 by (PS4)billy-d-squid

[Cwierz]

What are you blabbering about? AMD is okay, it needs either the entire team or some seriously high lvl modded weapons fired into it to cause that level of damage, We're talking Brak, Soma, Penta lvls. Something you're not going to find on low lvls. Maybe if MP wasn't an all in one do everything we'd actually see AMD used more, at the moment theres no need MP is more efficient.

Also the detonation radius is also relatively small compared to most abilities and it requires the player to expose themselves to the enemy to put damage into the AMD, along with a travel time and no CC to stop enemies spreading out. It's good, but it's not obscenely powerful.

If you don't have the modded weapons for the levels you want to use it at bring it to the more appropriate levels for you until you have progressed to those holy numbers to do said content.

 

Oh S#&$, I forgot M Prime exists

 

At the levels where you need those million damage numbers popping up, you should have those well modded weapons because you need them. If nova by herself can make it that far based on frame abilities alone without those weapons, wheras many other frames cannot, it speaks volumes about how unbalanced she is.

[Monolake]

What are you blabbering about? AMD is okay, it needs either the entire team or some seriously high lvl modded weapons fired into it to cause that level of damage, We're talking Brak, Soma, Penta lvls. Something you're not going to find on low lvls. Maybe if MP wasn't an all in one do everything we'd actually see AMD used more, at the moment theres no need MP is more efficient.

Also the detonation radius is also relatively small compared to most abilities and it requires the player to expose themselves to the enemy to put damage into the AMD, along with a travel time and no CC to stop enemies spreading out. It's good, but it's not obscenely powerful.

Let me do some math for you: unpotatoed garbage-mk1 will do ~500dps, fire at AMD for 5 sec = 10000 nuke (no other frame has even close to that) but wait, fire another before exploding first AMD, 4x = 40000 damage, wait its 2x on m-primed targets. 80000 from the worst weapon in the game, poorly moded. 

Your average potatoed Karak will do 10000 dps burst, say 18000 per mag x4 x4 x2 = 576000. Staking 2 AMDs can be hard ok, only 144000 damage.

With Stretch its 21m radius explosion. 

Nova is balanced lol. Balanced vs lvl1000 enemies.  (yeah people beat lvl 8000 with Nova+Banshe+Rhino, guess who did 93% damage on the team)

[(PSN)billy-d-squid]

If you don't have the modded weapons for the levels you want to use it at bring it to the more appropriate levels for you until you have progressed to those holy numbers to do said content.

 

Oh S#&$, I forgot M Prime exists

 

At the levels where you need those million damage numbers popping up, you should have those well modded weapons because you need them. If nova by herself can make it that far based on frame abilities alone without those weapons, wheras many other frames cannot, it speaks volumes about how unbalanced she is.

 

Is that really an issue though? If I'm running a fully modded and forma'd Soma, with Split Chamber, Serration, Vital Sense, Hammershot, Shred Point strike and fast hands ( I have these maxed by the way) I should be at least, mstry rnk 6, I'm nearly 7. So the amount of time effort and cores I've pushed into these mods to generate the 400% damage via AMD is directly proportional to my equipment and weapons.

 

I don't see that as a bad thing, when to truly generate that 800k you need to have that lvl of equipment, which is beyond the reach of new players, or you need to wrk as a team to put the extra damage into AMD, in which case it's 4 players. I see that as keeping AMD more or less balanced. True you can go down to lower lvls, but you won't see someone who has got hold of a Nova and in short order, either through Platinum or whatever means, being able to generate that lvl of damage. It's more reliant on player lvl than MP. 

 

Also, it requires at least a modicum of aiming, it's only partially directable, there is no CC, the blast radius isn't that big 15m max, there is travel time allowing enemies to spread out.

 

Nyx's Absorb does much the same, but it deals magnified damage to that which I receive, and it also allows my team to contribute. Both of these powers are very similar. And yet, no one calls for Nyx absorb nerfs. AMD imo is in a reasonable area, it doesn't need changing given the "nuker design" on Nova. What I fundamentally dislike is that Nova should have CC in MP, it shouldn't. If people wanted CC they shouldn't be picking Nova. I'm happy with the buffs and damage dealt, but less with the slow debuff, that's the problem. MP has CC, buff, damage and radius at the press of a button. That IMO is too much.

[(PSN)billy-d-squid]

Let me do some math for you: unpotatoed garbage-mk1 will do ~500dps, fire at AMD for 5 sec = 10000 nuke (no other frame has even close to that) but wait, fire another before exploding first AMD, 4x = 40000 damage, wait its 2x on m-primed targets. 80000 from the worst weapon in the game, poorly moded. 

Your average potatoed Karak will do 10000 dps burst, say 18000 per mag x4 x4 x2 = 576000. Staking 2 AMDs can be hard ok, only 144000 damage.

With Stretch its 21m radius explosion. 

Nova is balanced lol. Balanced vs lvl1000 enemies.  (yeah people beat lvl 8000 with Nova+Banshe+Rhino, guess who did 93% damage on the team)

 

 

Please, you and I know Warmath doesn't work in game as you put forward here.

 

When are you ever going to be able to stand in the open for 5 seconds, standing still,on T3, Nightmare, Pluto? You'll be riddled with bullets before you can even detonate the power. 5 seconds is the maximum you could get in ideal circumstances. That's assuming you're not under fire, there's not an enemy spawn coming up behind you, that you've judged the travel time, the enemy is coming in nice and clustered.

 

And now you're adding MP's 200% damage buff, and the slow of 50% to get the increased damage. And an additional AMD, if you couldn't get 1 AMD off standing out in the open for more than 5 seconds how are you going to manage with a second one? Those are happy figures you've made, not the reality of what actually happens when using AMD. If I'm dropping that much energy 100+ every time( maybe less if I have maxed efficiency mods) and stacking that many powers, with the time it takes to travel direct and exposure, 5 seconds, and making the assumption nothing goes wrong ie: you don't get shot, which is bull, because you will, by that reasoning AMD is too powerful.

 

Seriously, with a full forma'd, modded and stacked Nova, multiple powers in use, ideal conditions and compliant enemies, means that AMD is OP because it causes too much damage? What are you smoking and where can I get some?

 

So yes, potentially you can get 1 million damage. Are you actually going to unless the entire team or you have some serious high lvl weapons and good communication? Not a chance in hell. My position on mp is somewhat different and it has issues as a power.

 

Edit:

 

Did you actually watch the video? Standing on top of a stack of crates like a lemon, with a maxed redirection with lvl 21 enemies shooting at you. Yes, because that is what actually happens in a game... try that in lvl 35 plus with a pair of heavy gunners or corrupted and you'll be ripped to pieces in less than 5 seconds.

Edited March 9, 2014 by (PS4)billy-d-squid

[fatpig84]

So because something actually takes some kind of small effort it is ok do millions of damage?

 

I am a supporter of balance between frames, so I completely disagree with you.

 

Standing still for 5 seconds in a non infested level 50 game spells doom very quickly for Nova especially if there is no Trinity.

Nyx absorb doesn't fear that.  In fact, I can penta nade my own Nyx to boost my own absorb damage and I don't even need to aim.

 

So, can we talk again ?

[Dalu__Ka]

So, can we talk again ?

 

Sure, if you want to.

 

I disagree with you on almost every point. I find her skills cheap, boring and completely over powered.

 

On second thought, no. I don't want to.

Edited March 9, 2014 by Tenn00b

[WrothBog]

the point of the the thread is why aren't frames like ash getting made into gods when nova is? or why isn't nova getting nerfed into the stoneage if ash has such an awful ability set?

 

and on that point i agree. there is a huge disparity in even like minded warframes. loki, a starter frame, has immense potential while ash, a potential upgrade from loki is pretty much a direct downgrade. it makes sense to offer loki players a similar stepping stone into other frames. but ash is not it.

 

nova is OP. deal with it guys. it's not a legitimate argument to claim you need nova for lvl 50 mobs, the highest legitimate mobs in the game are 35-38 and even then many frames are failing to be survivable. a squishy caster frame shouldn't be trivialising that content.

 

nyx's absorb doesn't even make sense as an ability, somebody watched district9 saw a robot collect all the bullets then fire them outwards killing everyone in the room and said "yeah, i could program that!" nyx should have that removed. what possible corelation to mind control and deception does that even have?

 

an argument about whose OPness is the most OP and thus is more deserving of a nerf is just justification that both need nerfing. now compare them to blade storm and explain how Ash is being treated fairly?

 

some warframes got neglected badly

[Vultor]

Dont be so melodramatic now haha.

 

Balance is ahuge problem in Warframe but its not that some frames outperform even gods, its that most frames are just ...bad.

Being better then bad is not hard.

you tried Saryn and frost? :-)

 

Can't believe I played so long with Frost Prime (such a bad warframe...)

[Monolake]

Please, you and I know Warmath doesn't work in game as you put forward here.

 

When are you ever going to be able to stand in the open for 5 seconds, standing still,on T3, Nightmare, Pluto? You'll be riddled with bullets before you can even detonate the power. 5 seconds is the maximum you could get in ideal circumstances. That's assuming you're not under fire, there's not an enemy spawn coming up behind you, that you've judged the travel time, the enemy is coming in nice and clustered.

 

And now you're adding MP's 200% damage buff, and the slow of 50% to get the increased damage. And an additional AMD, if you couldn't get 1 AMD off standing out in the open for more than 5 seconds how are you going to manage with a second one? Those are happy figures you've made, not the reality of what actually happens when using AMD. If I'm dropping that much energy 100+ every time( maybe less if I have maxed efficiency mods) and stacking that many powers, with the time it takes to travel direct and exposure, 5 seconds, and making the assumption nothing goes wrong ie: you don't get shot, which is bull, because you will, by that reasoning AMD is too powerful.

 

Seriously, with a full forma'd, modded and stacked Nova, multiple powers in use, ideal conditions and compliant enemies, means that AMD is OP because it causes too much damage? What are you smoking and where can I get some?

 

So yes, potentially you can get 1 million damage. Are you actually going to unless the entire team or you have some serious high lvl weapons and good communication? Not a chance in hell. My position on mp is somewhat different and it has issues as a power.

 

Edit:

 

Did you actually watch the video? Standing on top of a stack of crates like a lemon, with a maxed redirection with lvl 21 enemies shooting at you. Yes, because that is what actually happens in a game... try that in lvl 35 plus with a pair of heavy gunners or corrupted and you'll be ripped to pieces in less than 5 seconds.

M-prime slows enemies, there is cover, AMD ignores wall etc. I dont even need to watch any videos I'v played enough myself -  I'v just played t3 survival shooting AMD at lvl70s no problem. Then there is other CC, then of course if you do long survivals you always bring another cheat-like charachter for invulnerability and can tank anything forever, but even without it you can find a 5 seconds window for attack. The only problem is when AMD doesn't fly cause lag, lag makes it unusable.

 Every one runs max efficiency, 25 mprime 13 for AMD. You dont need any formas to equip default powers+ efficiency and survivability mods. Im tired explaining the basics if you apparently never even played Nova with proper mods at high level. 

Bottom line is no other frame can come even remotely close no matter how you mod it. Nova does several magnitudes  more damage and obliterates any mid-level content making other players spectators.

 

 

 

Standing still for 5 seconds in a non infested level 50 game spells doom very quickly for Nova especially if there is no Trinity.

Nyx absorb doesn't fear that.  In fact, I can penta nade my own Nyx to boost my own absorb damage and I don't even need to aim.

 

So, can we talk again ?

We'll talk again when absorb gets 4x multiplier and when CC is removed from the game. For now Nova is brokenly overpowered. 

 

Meanwhile Rhino Prime is confirmed to have higher speed. Warframe, balance. Chose one.

Edited March 9, 2014 by Monolake

[Hyunsai]

Warframe balance by DE ?

 

Step one : Make anti rushing stupid door mechanics in the new Grineer Tileset.

 

Step two : Make Rhino Prime, a frame that don't care about those mechanics, the fastest frame of the game tied with Loki.

 

Step three : Profit ! Rushing is faster than ever !

 

This is a bit depressing if you ask me...

Edited March 9, 2014 by Hyunsai

[Phantasmo]

Warframe balance by DE ?

 

Step one : Make anti rushing stupid door mechanics in the new Grineer Tileset.

 

Step two : Make Rhino Prime, a frame that don't care about those mechanics, the fastest frame of the game tied with Loki.

 

Step three : Profit ! Rushing is faster than ever !

 

This is a bit depressing if you ask me...

 

You know what is depressing?

Players think what you just did, they know it's true but nevertheless they keep playing like zombies, doing the same thing over and over and over.

[cloudyDev]

DE, buff Ash and Nerf Nova's damage sightly (-1.5% damage per enemy affected by M Prime) Then the community will grumble, yell, and move on.

 

You need to fix this sooner or later.

[Dalu__Ka]

What if we replaced all warframes with the cast from Mortal Kombat?

 

Now that's what I'm talking about.

[WrothBog]

What if we replaced all warframes with the cast from Mortal Kombat?

 

Now that's what I'm talking about.

valkyr is scorpion already

frost does freeze people

rhino is more or less johnny cage

excalibur could also be johnny cage

ash could be liu kang, or baraka

or jax

loki is obviously shang tsung

my brain hurts now