Melee Weapons

[Kickboxing_Banana]

Why were melee weapons made so S#&$ in the first place? I was messing up with some melee builds in warframe-builder.com and noticed that the best melee weapons (Dual Ichors for example) only have around 4k DPS when fully modded. Seriously, even Mk1-Braton is better! Most melee weapons didn't even reach 500 DPS...

Edited March 10, 2014 by GalliumGD

[immolator1001]

Melee 2.0 is coming. Also they assumed you would use it as a burst attack at close range, not sustained damage.

[Deaths.Reap3r]

Melee 2.0 my friend.

Melee 2.0

[Kickboxing_Banana]

Melee 2.0 is coming. Also they assumed you would use it as a burst attack at close range, not sustained damage.

 

How is that an anser to the question ''Why were melee weapons made so S#&$ in the first place?''. I am fully aware of melee 2.0.

[Deaths.Reap3r]

How is that an anser to the question ''Why were melee weapons made so S#&$ in the first place?''. I am fully aware of melee 2.0.

Its an answer because its going to change melee and make it not so S#&$.

So just wait for that until it comes. Then if you're not satisfied you can come back and make the same thread.

Just wait ;) 

[Kickboxing_Banana]

Melee 2.0 my friend.

Melee 2.0

 

Another fool. If you don't have the answer for the question, please go away. I want to know the ''logic'' behind making close range weapons so bad and why am I able to crit 100k+ with long range snipers.

[Kickboxing_Banana]

Its an answer because its going to change melee and make it not so S#&$.

So just wait for that until it comes. Then if you're not satisfied you can come back and make the same thread.

Just wait ;) 

 

The first word of the question is WHY. How does that answer to it?

[Silraed]

Melee weapons simply got left behind when they moved to the mod card system.

[immolator1001]

How is that an anser to the question ''Why were melee weapons made so S#&$ in the first place?''. I am fully aware of melee 2.0.

 

 

Another fool. If you don't have the answer for the question, please go away. I want to know the ''logic'' behind making close range weapons so bad and why am I able to crit 100k+ with long range snipers.

A. No need 2 be rude.

B. Read the second half of my initial post. They assumed it would be a burst attack that would not be used for primary damage.

C. Galatine?

 

Edit: But again this is being fixed soon so no worries.

Edited March 10, 2014 by immolator1001

[Kickboxing_Banana]

C. Galatine?

 

I didn't say all melee weapons were bad, but most are. Heavy and Crit melee weapons are the only weapons worth using.

Edited March 10, 2014 by GalliumGD

[immolator1001]

I didn't say all melee weapons were bad, but most are. Heavy and Crit melee weapons are the only weapons worth using.

Yes which is why they are doing the melee overhaul. There are probably a dozen reasons related to development why they got left behind, but its getting fixed no which is all we can ask for.

[Deaths.Reap3r]

Another fool. If you don't have the answer for the question, please go away. I want to know the ''logic'' behind making close range weapons so bad and why am I able to crit 100k+ with long range snipers.

Ouch.

 

The first word of the question is WHY. How does that answer to it?

Melee 2.0 "promises" to make melee stronger, and better, and more viable. Thats how it answers why. Just wait till melee 2.0.

[Axterix13]

1.  Lack of a "Multi-shot" mod.  Deprives melee of the 90-180% extra damage primary and secondary get.

2.  Crappy percentages on damage mods.  Ice and Electricity are both 10% per rank, while Primary has 15% across the board, and Pistol only has 10% on its ice mods.  The straight up damage mod also falls behind Pistols and Rifles, though you can make up for that with the addition of a corrupted mod.

3.  Melee forces you to choose if you want to specialize in charge or non-charge attacks.  One or the other, or both, will suffer because of it.

4.  Most of the top weapons have been recent additions or special event rewards.  Not many melee among them.

5.  Poor design.  Most any game out there has melee out-damage ranged options, because melee has a shorter range and higher risk factor.  This seems to have slipped past DE's design team.

Edited March 10, 2014 by Axterix13

[Kickboxing_Banana]

Melee 2.0 "promises" to make melee stronger, and better, and more viable. Thats how it answers why. Just wait till melee 2.0.

 

*facepalm*

That still doesn't explain why melee weapons are CURRENTLY so bad, which is exactly what I asked. Your stupidity is so strong, that it doesn't even amuse me anymore.

 

 

1.  Lack of a "Multi-shot" mod.  Deprives melee of the 90-180% extra damage primary and secondary get.

2.  Crappy percentages on damage mods.  Ice and Electricity are both 10% per rank, while Primary has 15% across the board, and Pistol only has 10% on its ice mods.

3.  Melee forces you to choose if you want to specialize in charge or non-charge attacks.  One or the other, or both, will suffer because of it.

4.  Most of the top weapons have been recent additions or special event rewards.  Not many melee among them.

5.  Poor design.  Most any game out there has melee out-damage ranged options, because melee has a shorter range and higher risk factor.  This seems to have slipped past DE's design team.

 

6. Base DPS of most melee weapons are less than one fifth of average gun's DPS.

Edited March 10, 2014 by GalliumGD

[WrothBog]

galatine is terrible and the root of people claiming melee isn't viable. holding down the E key until it kills everything noshing on your iron skin is not gameplay.

 

galatine as a weapon can only be useful if you have knockdown/interupt resistence or your invisible. a zephyr cannot use a charge build galatine effectively you'll be on your arse more than on the attack.

 

i spent a few hours modifying and assessing all my melee weapons last night and came away believing the jat kittag is the only viable weapon if you want to flick a warframe around the room. it has the brutal force required to kill with quick attacks, it has the charge attack for making sure a knocked down opponent doesn't truly get up.

 

BUT the new animations have slowed it down. the older polearm stuff made it's first attack fire off very quickly which is extremely important to getting a stunlock going. the new animations leave you tanking a few rounds of napalm before you can get a hit in

 

i eventually landed on ether reaper, i dont have the other two scythes so i hope they are better but ether reaper has the speed and power to take on pluto in melee.

 

but yeah as the first poster said melee weapons lack the dps

 

if DE literally just added a zero to the end of every weapons damage stats they would become viable. is that OP...NO. a melee weapon requires you to get into melee range (deadly) exposes you to groups of gunfire (deadly) does far too little damage (longer TTK means more damage taken means deadly)  and the slowest rate of attack in the game apart from single shot weapons who generally have exceptional damage values.

 

risk vs reward, hitting something with a fragor should be terminal, a jat kittag would liquify bone on impact, bladed weapons should proc bleed on every attack. you're taking substantial risk at high levels like pluto getting in a napalm's face and trying to ram an amphis down it's neck. but you get no reward fro doing so except the revive screen

 

for the record a heavily melee built zephyr with 1k/1k health & shields, i couldn't repeatedly finish acheron unless i used the kittag. i wasn't stealthing or singling out mobs. i was just running into a room and seeing how survivable weapons and mod layouts were. i even had 60% flame resistance and napalms were chewing me to pieces.

 

tonight i'll be trying again with saryn, but the root of the issue is melee damage values being so low. they were clearly never intended as weapons but rather decorations for your back

[WrothBog]

for the record a combo system is not the answer in a game that spams dozens of enemies at us. we need a better system for attacking in all directions around us.

 

arkham asylum onwards are good examples of how to do that right

 

a combo system becomes pointless while our teammates destroy our targets that are close enough together

 

killing floor is a good example of melee guys being forced to either work alone to maintain survival or being used to defend the gunners. but killing floors community is much better at teamwork than i've ever seen from pugs in this game.

[Axterix13]

 

6. Base DPS of most melee weapons are less than one fifth of average gun's DPS.

That's #5 ;)  And also part of #4.

 

Really, their design choices often leave me baffled.  Take Steel Charge.  If weapons are "balanced", then Steel Charge should provide roughly the same benefit as Rifle Amp.  Instead, it provides double the bonus and more points.  This is the type of stupidity that basically says "melee weapons are bad; here's a hack fix", rather than something that addresses the actual cause of the problem.  And, of course, Steel Charge is another mod that only impacts half of the melee weapon equation.  A lot of this stuff just seems like it should be obvious to anyone with a bit of design experience, yet they keep making the same type of mistakes, over and over again.

[Deaths.Reap3r]

*facepalm*

That still doesn't explain why melee weapons are CURRENTLY so bad, which is exactly what I asked. Your stupidity is so strong, that it doesn't even amuse me anymore.

 

 

 

6. Base DPS of most melee weapons are less than one fifth of average gun's DPS.

Ok now your actually being rude. I shrugged off the other time, but now its a bit excessive dont you think?

1. Maybe its not me thats stupid. You're not seeing what Im getting at.

Melee 2.0 might change it, so theres no point in this at this moment.

Once melee 2.0 comes out... then go ahead and make the post.

2. You made a thread. You wanted answers. Just because I didn't give you an answer that doesn't please you doesn't mean you have to bash me.

;) maybe next time you'll refrain from it and think before you post?

[Kickboxing_Banana]

Ok now your actually being rude. I shrugged off the other time, but now its a bit excessive dont you think?

1. Maybe its not me thats stupid. You're not seeing what Im getting at.

Melee 2.0 might change it, so theres no point in this at this moment.

Once melee 2.0 comes out... then go ahead and make the post.

2. You made a thread. You wanted answers. Just because I didn't give you an answer that doesn't please you doesn't mean you have to bash me.

;) maybe next time you'll refrain from it and think before you post?

 

Call me stupid but frankly I still haven't got an answer for the question from you. ''Damage 2.0'' is not an answer WHY melee weapons have been bad in the PAST. Damage 2.0 is the future, not the past.

[Deaths.Reap3r]

Call me stupid but frankly I still haven't got an answer for the question from you. ''Damage 2.0'' is not an answer WHY melee weapons have been bad in the PAST. Damage 2.0 is the future, not the past.

Um. Im talking about Melee 2.0...

Im saying why bother making this post before melee 2.0 is going to come this week or next week probably?

Im saying make the post after Melee 2.0, if it didn't change your thoughts.

[MechaTails]

Stupid questions get stupid answers lol

 

Why did the chicken cross the road? Who gives a S#&$? It's irrelevant now since the melee system got overhauled.

 

But if you really want to know, send the developers an email asking why they made such a "S#&$ melee system". That should go over well lol

Edited March 11, 2014 by DarkTails

[WrothBog]

Um. Im talking about Melee 2.0...

Im saying why bother making this post before melee 2.0 is going to come this week or next week probably?

Im saying make the post after Melee 2.0, if it didn't change your thoughts.

the way melee 6.0 is going  i don't believe we'll see melee altered this lifetime. i do not expect it to happen this fortnight. i'm doubtful about this month. almost certain it'll be april sometime.

 

as far as i'm concerned they have until march 27. after that i'll be playing if the patch notes say something interesting or if carmageddon is terrible

[Deaths.Reap3r]

the way melee 6.0 is going  i don't believe we'll see melee altered this lifetime. i do not expect it to happen this fortnight. i'm doubtful about this month. almost certain it'll be april sometime.

 

as far as i'm concerned they have until march 27. after that i'll be playing if the patch notes say something interesting or if carmageddon is terrible

I'd rather have melee 2.0 delayed 10 times longer if they will make it 10 times better than what they have right now.

[Pro3Display]

Weapons(Forum): Butthurt Alert - 8h+ - 0cr

[Khunvyel]

Why were melee weapons made so S#&$ in the first place? I was messing up with some melee builds in warframe-builder.com and noticed that the best melee weapons (Dual Ichors for example) only have around 4k DPS when fully modded. Seriously, even Mk1-Braton is better! Most melee weapons didn't even reach 500 DPS...

 

You cannot be serious, right? You use a DPS calculator to check for a value which isn't even remotely used? For one, it doesn't factor in multiple enemies hit, which naturally increases your dps by that number. Second - and this is an actual problem of the game - regular melee attacks aren't really used after a while any more because charge and slide are outright better.

When I started the game, once I figured out the slide attack, I didn't do anything BUT slide attack for quite some time because It wrecked everything. Especially when I got Dual Ethers, slide attack AoE Wreckage. Properly executed, slide attack deals more damage than charge attacks. The only reason why Galatine would theoretically top out in AoE damage is because it hits up to 5 enemies at once, which adds up to 66% damage to the AoE total. But this dps calculator doesn't even include either attack pattern. Again, senseless dps chart banter.

 

The problem is that they haven't added / adjusted melee damage mods in order to keep up with the increasing power of pewpews.

The answer to your question therefore is:

 

1.  Lack of a "Multi-shot" mod.  Deprives melee of the 90-180% extra damage primary and secondary get.

2.  Crappy percentages on damage mods.  Ice and Electricity are both 10% per rank, while Primary has 15% across the board, and Pistol only has 10% on its ice mods.  The straight up damage mod also falls behind Pistols and Rifles, though you can make up for that with the addition of a corrupted mod.

3.  Melee forces you to choose if you want to specialize in charge or non-charge attacks.  One or the other, or both, will suffer because of it.

4.  Most of the top weapons have been recent additions or special event rewards.  Not many melee among them.

5.  Poor design.  Most any game out there has melee out-damage ranged options, because melee has a shorter range and higher risk factor.  This seems to have slipped past DE's design team.

That, and Steel Charge rework was a completely idiotic choice to begin with.

 

Aside that, I do wonder why you didn't wait for Melee 2.0 before making this topic. But perhaps it was really your intention to understand why, in order to understand the need for Melee 2.0 ? damned if I know.

Edited March 11, 2014 by Khunvyel