An Ash Ability Rework To Fix Poor Scaling

[Beheader87]

So, as most Ash players know, Ash's damage abilities don't scale very well on the higher level missions. I was thinking about potential fixes for this and came up with this.

 

 

Shuriken Alteration: Poison-Tipped Shuriken

Ash throws a shuriken(or 2 at max rank, like now) tipped with deadly poison.

 

This will cause 500 slash damage(Like now)

HOWEVER. It will also slow targets by a small percentage(20%) and these each shuriken will damage a target for 5 seconds, dealing 3% of their health per second. This can only be applied twice per enemy.(% HEALTH EFFECT DOES NOT WORK ON BOSSES)(But the slow and slash damage will apply to bosses)

 

 

Smoke Screen Addition:

Ash throws down a smoke screen, cloaking himself in smoke and reducing the accuracy of all within range.

 

The targets within the range of the smoke bomb now suffer a 30% accuracy deduction for the duration of the invisibility. 

The smoke cloud ACTUALLY STAYS until Ash becomes visible again. Only enemies within range of original throwdown suffer the penalty(walking into the cloud after a few seconds does not reduce accuracy)

 

Teleport Alteration:

Ash teleports behind a target, friend or foe, and staggers a surprised enemy.

 

You now teleport behind the target, as apposed to in front

The target will still stagger, except forward

 

 

Bladestorm Enhancement: 

Ash goes on a rampage, using hidden daggers to inflict massive damage upon a group of enemies and temporarily weaken survivors.

 

Blade Storm still deals 2000 damage(no specific type, just straight damage) at max mod rank(Increased by power strength)

The survivors of Bladestorm now have 5 puncture stacks and take 200% damage for 10 seconds(Duration cannot be extended) after Bladestorm ends. This does not stack and only the targets of the last Bladestorm will keep this effect(therefore, the more targets you can hit with one bladestorm, the more suffer the effects)

Because of previously mentioned effects, targets remain glowy red until 10 second duration ends.

Sentinel is cloaked during the animation(No more dead sentinel because of you pressed 4)

 

 

 

That's pretty much it for his rework. Post what you think of it or what could be done differently from what I wrote.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(Moderators, please keep this in general discussion. I want to hear what the community thinks about this and use their input before posting a final thread in Warframe Abilities Feedback)

[bejuizb]

Just as an FYI, barely two or three abilities actually scale. That's what happens when everything scales, but set number abilities don't.

 

And I really like those changes.

Edited March 12, 2014 by bejuizb

[Beheader87]

Just as an FYI, barely two or three abilities actually scale. That's what happens when everything scales, but set number abilities don't.

 

I noticed this about many games and scaling. I tried to stick to percentages, since we can both agree that they scale MUCH better than straight numbers

[Scryed]

Why aren't you using percentages if you want stuff to scale? flat numbers don't scale.....you basically just gave the abilities status procs, scale the damage which needs to happen to EVERY frame in this game by a percentage.

[ihd1234567890]

So, as most Ash players know, Ash's damage abilities don't scale very well on the higher level missions. I was thinking about potential fixes for this and came up with this.

 

 

Shuriken Alteration: Poison-Tipped Shuriken

Ash throws a shuriken(or 2 at max rank, like now) tipped with deadly poison.

 

This will cause 500 slash damage(Like now)

HOWEVER. It will also slow targets by a small percentage(20%) and these each shuriken will damage a target for 5 seconds, dealing 3% of their health per second. This can only be applied twice per enemy.(% HEALTH EFFECT DOES NOT WORK ON BOSSES)(But the slow and slash damage will apply to bosses)

 

 

Smoke Screen Addition:

Ash throws down a smoke screen, cloaking himself in smoke and reducing the accuracy of all within range.

 

The targets within the range of the smoke bomb now suffer a 30% accuracy deduction for the duration of the invisibility. 

The smoke cloud ACTUALLY STAYS until Ash becomes visible again. Only enemies within range of original throwdown suffer the penalty(walking into the cloud after a few seconds does not reduce accuracy)

 

Teleport Alteration:

Ash teleports behind a target, friend or foe, and staggers a surprised enemy.

 

You now teleport behind the target, as apposed to in front

The target will still stagger, except forward

 

 

Bladestorm Enhancement: 

Ash goes on a rampage, using hidden daggers to inflict massive damage upon a group of enemies and temporarily weaken survivors.

 

Blade Storm still deals 2000 damage(no specific type, just straight damage) at max mod rank(Increased by power strength)

The survivors of Bladestorm now have 5 puncture stacks and take 200% damage for 10 seconds(Duration cannot be extended) after Bladestorm ends. This does not stack and only the targets of the last Bladestorm will keep this effect(therefore, the more targets you can hit with one bladestorm, the more suffer the effects)

Because of previously mentioned effects, targets remain glowy red until 10 second duration ends.

Sentinel is cloaked during the animation(No more dead sentinel because of you pressed 4)

 

 

 

That's pretty much it for his rework. Post what you think of it or what could be done differently from what I wrote.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(Moderators, please keep this in general discussion. I want to hear what the community thinks about this and use their input before posting a final thread in Warframe Abilities Feedback)

If you have the best of mods, you can mod a Shuriken/Smoke Screen hybrid build. Go check out Peopleschoiegaming's mods for advanced Ash players with rare mods. Your Shuriken can do up to 3600 damage to Infested if both Shurikens make contact with PCG's build.

[Beheader87]

Why aren't you using percentages if you want stuff to scale? flat numbers don't scale.....you basically just gave the abilities status procs, scale the damage which needs to happen to EVERY frame in this game by a percentage.

Everything I added was a percentage. But I didn't want to ruin the original purpose of the skill by removing damage. Ash is all damage, its what makes him different from Loki in many player's minds

[Beheader87]

If you have the best of mods, you can mod a Shuriken/Smoke Screen hybrid build. Go check out Peopleschoiegaming's mods for advanced Ash players with rare mods. Your Shuriken can do up to 3600 damage to Infested if both Shurikens make contact with PCG's build.

I know about most Ash builds. This post is about fixing the abilities when fighting a, lets say, level 53 corrupted heavy. Maybe you wont kill the heavy with my rework, but you'll do more than hurt his feelings(which is all i feel like I'm doing right now)

Edited March 12, 2014 by Beheader87

[Beheader87]

So, as most Ash players know, Ash's damage abilities don't scale very well on the higher level missions. I was thinking about potential fixes for this and came up with this.

 

 

Shuriken Alteration: Poison-Tipped Shuriken

Ash throws a shuriken(or 2 at max rank, like now) tipped with deadly poison.

 

This will cause 500 slash damage(Like now)

HOWEVER. It will also slow targets by a small percentage(20%) and these each shuriken will damage a target for 5 seconds, dealing 3% of their total health per second. This can only be applied twice per enemy.(% HEALTH EFFECT DOES NOT WORK ON BOSSES)(But the slow and slash damage will apply to bosses)

 

 

Smoke Screen Addition:

Ash throws down a smoke screen, cloaking himself in smoke and reducing the accuracy of all within range.

 

The targets within the range of the smoke bomb now suffer a 30% accuracy deduction for the duration of the invisibility. 

The smoke cloud ACTUALLY STAYS until Ash becomes visible again. Only enemies within range of original throwdown suffer the penalty(walking into the cloud after a few seconds does not reduce accuracy)

 

Teleport Alteration: 

Ash teleports forward, reaching areas unobtainable by other Tenno

 

You now teleport a set distance of 45 meters forward(boosted by power range) and no lock on is required to teleport

You teleport in the direction you are facing

Will still cost 35 energy

 

Bladestorm Enhancement: 

Ash goes on a rampage, using hidden daggers to inflict massive damage upon a group of enemies and temporarily weaken survivors.

 

Blade Storm still deals 2000 damage(no specific type, just straight damage) at max mod rank(Increased by power strength)

The survivors of Bladestorm now have 5 puncture stacks and take 200% damage for 10 seconds(Duration cannot be extended) after Bladestorm ends. This does not stack and only the targets of the last Bladestorm will keep this effect(therefore, the more targets you can hit with one bladestorm, the more suffer the effects)

Because of previously mentioned effects, targets remain glowy red until 10 second duration ends.

Sentinel is cloaked during the animation(No more dead sentinel because of you pressed 4)

 

 

 

That's pretty much it for his rework. Post what you think of it or what could be done differently from what I wrote.

Edited March 12, 2014 by Beheader87

[(PSN)PD_33]

Teleport skill needs to backstab enemy with melee weapon otherwise it is silly to teleport to an enemy if you are not stealthed.

[Beheader87]

Teleport skill needs to backstab enemy with melee weapon otherwise it is silly to teleport to an enemy if you are not stealthed.

Try Smoke Screen before teleporting then. and its mostly used to get into melee range(or catch up to teammates, for me)

[(PSN)PD_33]

Try Smoke Screen before teleporting then. and its mostly used to get into melee range(or catch up to teammates, for me)

 

 

yes but will not be efficient, its almost better just to use smokescreen then run up to the enemy. The point is to make teleport more useful. I currently don't even have on my Ash, because no use for it.

Edited March 12, 2014 by (PS4)PD_33

[Scar.Heart]

Try Smoke Screen before teleporting then. and its mostly used to get into melee range(or catch up to teammates, for me)

- Pop smoke screen (35 energy)

- Teleport to enemy (25 energy)

- Strike with melee weapon (Stealth + possibly additional strikes to kill enemy)

 

Sounds like Teleport being converted into an attack would be a great idea.

It's efficient, effective, and stealthy. What's not to love for something like this to be on Ash?

[Cwierz]

- Pop smoke screen (35 energy)

- Teleport to enemy (25 energy)

- Strike with melee weapon (Stealth + possibly additional strikes to kill enemy)

 

Sounds like Teleport being converted into an attack would be a great idea.

It's efficient, effective, and stealthy. What's not to love for something like this to be on Ash?

Free aiming > tacked on damage please.

[Scar.Heart]

As long as the cost is higher than 50 energy, I'm fine with free-aim teleporting.

[Beheader87]

- Pop smoke screen (35 energy)

- Teleport to enemy (25 energy)

- Strike with melee weapon (Stealth + possibly additional strikes to kill enemy)

 

Sounds like Teleport being converted into an attack would be a great idea.

It's efficient, effective, and stealthy. What's not to love for something like this to be on Ash?

I completely understand your and PD's point, but I'm trying to get away from straight damage skills for better scaling to high level play

[Beheader87]

As long as the cost is higher than 50 energy, I'm fine with free-aim teleporting.

Nice! Adding to post

[Shashu]

Shuriken, Toxin, Slash (which is bleed) and HP % damg that not abit to much?

 

Smoke Screen. Blind would be better than a small reduction in accuracy

 

Teleport.  Most simple fix yea, make it teleport behind the target keeping its stagger. Also make the target reticule bigger, though people want free aim which has a flaw because it isn't meant for escaping, you want to engage the target and free aim has a chance to miss and end up on the other side where you don't wanna be or just plainly teleport into walls.

 

Bladestorm. Kinda hard to get my head around this and 5 puncture stack is very confusing... lets just make it 200% damage intake? But how does the range work, is it close up range throwing blades at each target around you? This would make the quickness of the ultimate and quicker time to engage the survivers.

 

Blade storm is the hardest skill to tweak and allot of people want to keep the cool kill animations in it but fix the damage and quickness.

 

You may need to explain more in detail in some of the skills. 

 

Edit: Also the skills don't show allot of silent stealth play, Ash is or was meant to be more of a stealth frame.

 

If you like you can check my post about Ash as well. You will also find OniWarriors post on his Ash in the comments to check his as well.

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/191614-ash-skill-tweak/

Edited March 12, 2014 by Shashu

[Vaskadar]

Teleport should work based on targeted vectors, instead of targeted pawns (i.e. enemies and friendlies). It should also have a minor stun effect.

Edited March 12, 2014 by Vaskadar

[Tulzscha]

You are already stating your feedback on how Ash is ill-suited for high level content, and your ideas on how his abilities can be reworked.

 

Therefore, this is moved to the proper section.

 

EDIT: also merged with another thread you started that has basically the same content :)

[Jin_Lightning]

I like his dmg abilities, but like all dmg abilities, there needs to be some kind of scaling.

But his 2 and 3 need something else.

 

How about this?

 

Smoke Screen: Does what it does now, but also cloaks teammates in the initial radius, giving them a small percentage of the melee dmg bonus that stealth gets.

 

Teleport: Honestly, I like this skill, but the targeting is way to precise, having to put the dot on the character model. Very annoying at long range.

But in addition, how about it does what it does, plus the Weakened status effect? Movement plus enemy dmg reduction?

 

-Jin

[ASH_PRIME]

I've seen these type of suggestions before, like giving Shuriken a stun and splitting its damage type across all 3 types for more usefulness

+1 this post it all sounds good, and easily doable to me!