So About Rhino.

[Tennonymous]

As any of the remaining sane Tennos out there should know by now, Rhino's Iron Skin is quite absurd, and i'm here to provide you an alternate version of it:

 

Iron Skin should've it's defensive ''Bubble'' removed completely, having a spammable godmode around can't be too much fun, only leads to overuse of certain frame.

 

So, instead of having this magical ''Bubble'' absorbing all the sh*t thrown at you, including airplanes,nukes, whatever you find lethal, you could replace it with boost to armor rating. Knockback resistance can be kept imo. Maybe with reduction to movement speed, as he is supposed to be a Tank frame.

 

Now this is only an suggestion, if you have nothing constructive to share, feel free to flash your sore butt somewhere else.

[Nelsonz80]

Why did you think Iron Skin is absurd? Have you seen Trinity?

 

I mean, the girl HAS IN FACT, a god mode for the whole team, and you are whining about Iron Skin?

 

Besides, Iron Skin falls in high lvl plays, while Blessing just cant fall againt anything.

[XenosInfinity]

The immediately obvious problem is that armour is useless.

 

No, seriously. Diminishing returns makes it almost entirely worthless as a defensive measure.

[Yapple]

Why learn how to play if you can simply learn how to press the 2 button instead?

 

But yeah. The iron skin is ridicule.

[Rainei00]

Imo, Iron Skin kinda sucks, especially later on (damn gunners instabreak it), but trinity imo is way more absurd.

[OldGodKing]

Iron Skin is irrelevant in high level content. Forget about the whole "bubble" logic you have there. It won't last a second in higher levels.I do like the idea of increasing knockback resistance but armor is useless against (again) higher level stuff.

 

Personally, I'm already using a slow Rhino focusing mainly on tanking and heavy CC with Stomp but I'm always faster than my other teammates who just sprint blindly towards the objective which most of the time has them going the wrong way. So an even slower Rhino would be a hindrance not only to me but also to my allies.

 

Even though you have a suggestion, if you're going to post it why try to shy people away from putting comments? That's counter-productive. If you dare to post something that could potentially bring drama, have some thick skin. If not, don't post it at all.

Edited March 17, 2014 by AxialBlue

[Tennonymous]

Iron Skin is irrelevant in high level content. Forget about the whole "bubble" logic you have there. It won't last a second in higher levels.

I do like the idea of increasing knockback resistance and armor rating but Iron Skin allows Rhino to contend with Trinity to some extent.

 

Personally, I'm already using a slow Rhino focusing mainly on tanking and heavy CC with Stomp but I'm always faster than my other teammates who just sprint blindly towards the objective which most of the time has them going the wrong way. So an even slower Rhino would be a hindrance not only to me but also to my allies.

 

Even though you have a suggestion, if you're going to post it why try to shy people away from putting comments? That's counter-productive.

If you dare to post something that could potentially bring drama, have some thick skin. If not, don't post it at all.

How am i shying anyone out of the post by saying that no pointless posts are needed here? Otherwise than that, i thank you for your contribution to the thread.

[OldGodKing]

How am i shying anyone out of the post by saying that no pointless posts are needed here? Otherwise than that, i thank you for your contribution to the thread.

 

It's just unnecessary. Let them leave whatever comments they wish even if it is worthless banter.

[Yapple]

*cough* Can we just take a look at this for a sec..? 

 

 

And yet people imply that it isn't good enough..? Sure.

[LurkenLurker]

*cough* Can we just take a look at this for a sec..? 

 

 

And yet people imply that it isn't good enough..? Sure.

Its not you twat waffle in high lvl content its used only to avoid a cc or two before heavy units blow it up. Do any of you fools even know how many changes Rhino went though to get to His current state do any of you even remember radial Blast or when Iron skin was duration based. OMFG

Edited March 17, 2014 by LurkenLurker

[Tennonymous]

Its not you twat waffle in high lvl content its used only to avoid a cc or two before heavy units blow it up. 

And what kind of high level content are you referring to? Unless you stand still as bullet sponge, it'll last just fine.

But thanks for the contribution, keep em coming people.

Edited March 17, 2014 by Whoops...

[OldGodKing]

*cough* Can we just take a look at this for a sec..? 

 

 

And yet people imply that it isn't good enough..? Sure.

 

Sorry to rain on your parade but that's not going to last long.

[Yapple]

Its not you twat waffle in high lvl content its used only to avoid a cc or two before heavy units blow it up. Do any of you fools even know how many changes Rhino went though to get to His current state do any of you even remember radial Blast or when Iron skin was duration based. OMFG

Yet 2748 damage would kill any warframe? Just stuff some power effeciency up that Rhino's butt and you'll survive anything. Not to mention the fact that he already has the max shield capacity. Look. There's a reason why Rhinos are literally all you ever see online.

[LurkenLurker]

Yet 2748 damage would kill any warframe? Just stuff some power effeciency up that Rhino's butt and you'll survive anything. Not to mention the fact that he already has the max shield capacity. Look. There's a reason why Rhinos are literally all you ever see online.

2 blast from a heavy Unite on 40 min survival is enough to strip my shields not to mention cross fire from smaller units This is around the time Rhino stomp dmg starts to fall off Iron skill doesn't last long after 50+ mins maybe a few seconds Units take longer to kill and at that point your relying totally on bare shields and trinitys if your in a organized group.  

[LukeAura]

I think as Valkyr proved armor boosts are only effective once armor hits 3 times Rhino's current level. Valkyr's armor had to be doubled before it became effective at making her a health tank.
Turning Iron Skin in to an armor boost would require it to be a massive boost for it to be effective, which would mean ridiculous mod scaling. Also, you'd have to put it on a timer then, making it very restrictive. It would go the same way Overheat did once it start applying only to health. 

We have no player controlled ways of speeding CC recovery. Rhino does. Making Rhino's CC immunity less of a benefit over other frames would be a more game friendly 'nerf'.  You could also turn it into full damage reduction on shields and Health so it at least doesn't need to wait until shields are gone to be in use. 

We want abilities to be flexible. This is not just a nerf in strength but a nerf in flexibility.



 

[OldGodKing]

Yet 2748 damage would kill any warframe? Just stuff some power effeciency up that Rhino's butt and you'll survive anything. Not to mention the fact that he already has the max shield capacity. Look. There's a reason why Rhinos are literally all you ever see online.

 

Level 80 Moas would like to say hi to your so-called 2748 invincible Iron Skin that can survive "anything". LOL.

[bl4ckhunter]

lol op you don't get it do you, iron skin is like crap at high levels, a lvl 40 corrupted heavy gunner gets thru it nearly instantly, anyway give me duration based 100% knockback resistence and i'll take it any day over current iron skin.

Edited March 17, 2014 by bl4ckhunter

[LurkenLurker]

I think we can just let this flame bait thread die now

[Tennonymous]

I think we can just let this flame bait thread die now

Why? It's so cozy here.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

spammable godmode

So I see you prefer to play on Venus, then? Because in actual decent level play, iron skin evaporates fast.

[VentiGlondi]

Just a friendly reminder that level 60+ is not a benchmark for weapon and ability balance.

 

Unless it turns out the actual end-game is level 80, you should refrain from using 45minute survival as your argument.

 

Edit: Fixin' typos

Edited March 17, 2014 by VentiGlondi

[Tennonymous]

Keep em coming.

[Thrymm]

If you're using Blind Rage and Intensify to get max power, you're also losing 55% efficiency.  If you use the Vanguard helmet, you lose 5% of the strength right there.

 

If you're running Redirection, Vitality, all four Rhino abilities, Blind Rage, Intensify, and Flow, you then get to pick between Rush(or whatever you use) and Streamline or some such.  You won't be stomping your way out of much without Flow, and certainly won't be doing it if you don't increase your power efficiency as well.

 

Energy Siphon won't keep up, and if you've got energy vampire levels of blue juice you're invulnerable anyway so iron skin is kind of moot.  If you can't afford to stomp away the pain, your iron skin had better be fairly crazy because you will be soaking a ton while you scamper around.

 

You could give up abilities to squeeze more mods onto the frame, but if you choose to afford all that and give up your damage boost, your group utility is gone.  If you give up charge, your mobility takes a tremendous hit.  If you give up Vanguard+Rush, that super speed that makes people cry about the blazing fast Rhino with his invincible Iron Skin is gone.  If you give up stomp....um, you just really shouldn't.

 

Iron Skin is great, don't get me wrong here.  Rhino isn't worth playing without it.  The cool part about Rhino is that he does what people really want their frames to do.  He survives well, moves well, and has a toolbox that handles a large variety of situations. 

 

Rather than find ways to make him less fun and accessible, how about some ways to make the other frames good enough to take out of the shed?

[(PSN)billy-d-squid]

Level 80 Moas would like to say hi to your so-called 2748 invincible Iron Skin that can survive "anything". LOL.

 

Were you dropped on your head as a child? I really would like to know, because that is a $&*&*#(%& point you've just made. Considering the rest of the game, is balanced around lvl 30-45, ie Pluto, Void etc., even T3 void only pushes things up to lvl 50, unless you're doing endless defence and survival just to boost your own ego and compare e-peen you are never going to encounter lvl 80 enemies. 

 

Here take this, you'll need it.

 

 

And anyone who advocates that something is balanced at lvl 70+ or 80 so it's fine is a moron and should be slapped. 

 

 

Now, with that unpleasantness out the way, does Rhino have issues? Eh, yes and no. Iron skin is powerful, but if you've played T3 OP, then you'll know once enemies start to hit lvl 40-50 the DPS is enough to very quickly strip Iron skin if one isn't careful, in addition the only way to get Iron skin to that lvl 2700 odd. Is to stack corrupted mods and min/ max the frame. "Normal" Iron skin using only Intensify doesn't last long, but does allow Rhino help the team when things get screwed and a teammate goes down, he'll survive just long enough to avert a disaster and pull things back, but he won't last 5 seconds against an entire spawn opening up on him.

 

Iron Skin's best use is to prevent knock back, which is almost a death sentence at lvl 40. Looking at Rhino's powers he doesn't actually do that much damage, Stomp is far better as CC than DPS, Roar buffs, Charge is again CC and movement. They do damage, but not a huge amount. 

 

The problem isn't his Iron skin, Stomp, Roar, Charge or even the Prime's 1.0 speed. It's the Vanguard Helm. That thing is an abomination and it should never have existed. A 25% speed increase is daft. Also Rhino should not be able to be acquired on Venus! That is just wrong. Clearly a frame designed for T3. lvl 35-50 content where his powers matter most should not be found on the second planet!

 

I hope with the focus concept implemented they will strip the helmet stats, then we can get some semblance of balance. If they don't this game will devolve into a mire of egotistical jerks who's only goal is to reach lvl 80 and deride anyone who doesn't feel the need to sit there grinding through an hour of defence before parading it in front of anyone who will listen.

 

Like the person I replied to initially actually.

Edited March 17, 2014 by (PS4)billy-d-squid

[(PSN)billy-d-squid]

If you use the Vanguard helmet, you lose 5% of the strength right there.

 

 

 

Yeah, come on though.

 

We both know that the -5% on the Vanguard doesn't make a blind bit of difference on Rhino, his powers don't do that much damage normally and if you're min/ maxing for power damage with corrupt mods, intensify etc. 5% isn't going to make a difference to the build. While the 25% speed does more to keep Rhino alive via maneuverability than 5% extra strength ever would when applied to iron skin.